Back in my rock band days in the 90s, we got to the point with our song writing process where we would mercilessly shave down and cut parts to avoid any unnecessary repetitions as much as possible. Didn't go quite as far as Mitski here, but I can very much understand that impulse to want to keep things as tight as possible and not lose an audience's attention. It got to the point where it was real tricky to convince everyone to try a song that was more vamp oriented, that intentionally repeated a progression over and over.
― Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Tuesday, 21 August 2018 13:36 (five years ago) link
I've thought it was something like 'stodgy' before, but what I find now is that while the arrangements might feel like that, the litheness and conciseness of the songwriting and of Mitski's voice creates a really interesting wholeness.
― Frederik B, Tuesday, 21 August 2018 13:43 (five years ago) link
This record is much more Weyes Blood-y than her previous stuff, yes - it had occurred to me
― imago, Tuesday, 21 August 2018 15:06 (five years ago) link
I'd be feeling the vocals and melodies if the guitars and drums (and keyboards sometimes, even on the gentler songs) didn't pound along in such a leaden way - like these songs would sound so much better if they weren't just bashing every beat of the bar like children. I can't work out if its a deliberate aesthetic decision or if it's just ineptness, I suspect it's the former and that's actually more annoying.
― Matt DC, Tuesday, 21 August 2018 15:55 (five years ago) link
The album is very obviously playing on the tension between vivid art-pop and immiserated garage brevity, and you've got to be able to handle both
This doesn't really have much to do with the point I was making but hey.
― Matt DC, Tuesday, 21 August 2018 15:57 (five years ago) link
I'm prepared to go full forensic in order to refute your actual post as lazy listening, but I'll probably need a musicologist. Where's Sund4r?
― imago, Tuesday, 21 August 2018 16:05 (five years ago) link
Haha, I'm stuck on a work call, but I've been waiting impatiently for it to end so I can throw this on and see if I can make sense of Matt's criticism.
― Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Tuesday, 21 August 2018 16:10 (five years ago) link
I haven't listened enough to dial it up by memory, but my initial reaction is that it is a highly varied album that doesn't stay in place for long.
― Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Tuesday, 21 August 2018 16:11 (five years ago) link
Matt DC is kinda right. The instrumentation isn't that rhythmically complex, I think, but the voice is adding a lot of variation. I definitely think it's an aesthetic choice, it makes Mitski sounds as if she's constantly straining against the world, or dancing across it's borders.
― Frederik B, Tuesday, 21 August 2018 16:39 (five years ago) link
I can understand why someone would call this stodgy but then the whole genre Mitski operates in might be called stodgy? Matt, I'd be interested in hearing something in a similar vain but something you wouldn't consider stodgy.
This is a potential album of the year for me, it grows more on me than other Mitski records did.
― Van Horn Street, Tuesday, 21 August 2018 17:03 (five years ago) link
She's very into these portentous chord progressions that land very squarely on the down beats with little syncopation, giving it all a slightly doom-y quality. Going back to Weyes Blood, it's very much the approach you hear in "Do You Need My Love", but boiled down to it's barest essence. I do think there's plenty of dynamic range across the album, but she really likes hits those quarter notes dead on. I associate that style with a lot of Beatles tracks like "Penny Lane" or "Getting Better".
― Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Tuesday, 21 August 2018 17:15 (five years ago) link
I deal with the short, slippery-to-grasp songs by just listening to the whole thing as one big piece ... like Richard Buckner's The Hill or something.
Eventually, individual tracks will start to stand out.
― alpine static, Tuesday, 21 August 2018 17:30 (five years ago) link
So to go back to Nobody, the disco guitar sounds nice and rhythmic and limber, but good god those piano chords, those drums, just bashing away with equal emphasis on every beat, that's what I mean by gallumphing.I like lots of similar stuff in this vein - Weyes Blood is pretty different IMO but there's a subtlety there that's absent from the arrangements here. The US Girls album as well, although that actually knows what to do with a rhythm section.
― Matt DC, Tuesday, 21 August 2018 17:33 (five years ago) link
US Girls is totally and utterly a different everything to this
― imago, Tuesday, 21 August 2018 17:48 (five years ago) link
Lmao Mitski sounds absolutely nothing like U.S. Girls or Weyes Blood, and to make these comparisons is an absolute disservice to all three of these artists
― joshywinty (josh), Tuesday, 21 August 2018 18:21 (five years ago) link
I had a WB vibe, too
― niels, Tuesday, 21 August 2018 18:25 (five years ago) link
xp
Gee, sorry. I think all 3 will probably survive this highly tendentious display of subjective viewpoints by internet shut-ins.
― Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Tuesday, 21 August 2018 18:39 (five years ago) link
Yeah I don't really get the WB thing. I don't think it's *that* similar to US Girls either but I was responding to Van Horn Street's question about stuff in the same broad genre that sounds less stodgy. It's not like I was comparing her to Jana Rush or Tifa or whoever.
she really likes hits those quarter notes dead on. I associate that style with a lot of Beatles tracks like "Penny Lane" or "Getting Better".
This nails it. I'm not keen on it on Beatles records but when I hear newer bands default to that rhythmic approach I just assume it's because they can't think of anything else do to. I don't think that's the case here but it still kills my enjoyment of the songs.
― Matt DC, Tuesday, 21 August 2018 18:44 (five years ago) link
I have a lot of affection for that style, so I'm good with newer artists referencing it, but yes, it is a bit of a cliché.
― Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Tuesday, 21 August 2018 18:49 (five years ago) link
it doesn't sound very good but i like her songwriting, most modern records don't sound very good imo
― The Desus & Mero Chain (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 21 August 2018 19:09 (five years ago) link
sounded p nice to me?? im not convinced yet the songwriting is as good as on pube2
― flopson, Wednesday, 22 August 2018 01:13 (five years ago) link
her singing is *extremely* mannered...to me it's unrealistic to expect any sort of lithe agile arrangements around this vocal style. she also didn't use full band arrangements at all on P2, iirc everything was played by her or the producer. is it different on this one? that method of production again doesn't lend itself to much dexterity.
i think her project has its limits but based on one listen this record is more than successful within them.
― call all destroyer, Wednesday, 22 August 2018 01:24 (five years ago) link
i also think the stunted nature of the music and singing is part of the package, like the performative romance novel unbridled longing stuff is enhanced by doing the music this way
― call all destroyer, Wednesday, 22 August 2018 01:28 (five years ago) link
o me it's unrealistic to expect any sort of lithe agile arrangements around this vocal style. she also didn't use full band arrangements at all on P2, iirc everything was played by her or the producer. is it different on this one?
No. But I quibble about "lithe" and "agile."
― The Silky Veils of Alfred (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 22 August 2018 01:37 (five years ago) link
i think i was just looking for the opposites of galumphing. her music is certainly squarely on-beat and i don't think it's supposed to be subtle--for what she's doing these are features not bugs.
― call all destroyer, Wednesday, 22 August 2018 01:51 (five years ago) link
holy fuck is a pearl incredible
― devvvine, Wednesday, 22 August 2018 07:47 (five years ago) link
Bit of an Elliott Smith vibe off it in the sense that it's extremely tightly constructed and constrained by the lack of live-band-ness. His songs too were very short.
― in twelve parts (lamonti), Wednesday, 22 August 2018 12:44 (five years ago) link
If you really take in the full-bodied arrangements while letting the songwriting bounce you around the emotional register like paroxysms, I have no doubt that this album can be a powerful experience. The thing is that the songs demand that you are very easily enthused by that prospect.
Maybe it's me who is just emotionally stunted, but I never felt like anything here grabbed me and took me in. I felt like a had to submit in order to get on her frequency.
― Milton, Wednesday, 22 August 2018 16:44 (five years ago) link
That is an interesting take.
― Britain's Sexiest Cow (jed_), Wednesday, 22 August 2018 16:49 (five years ago) link
i just think that if you don't like pop maximalism very much this probably isn't for you
― imago, Wednesday, 22 August 2018 17:02 (five years ago) link
idk i'll go through this track by track later
I don't feel like I had to work to enjoy this. It caught my attention right away.
― Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Wednesday, 22 August 2018 18:01 (five years ago) link
Mine too. "Blue Light" is the only one I skip (at the moment).
― The Silky Veils of Alfred (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 22 August 2018 19:00 (five years ago) link
some of y'all think way too much
― alpine static, Wednesday, 22 August 2018 19:03 (five years ago) link
I never felt like anything here grabbed me and took me in. I felt like a had to submit in order to get on her frequency.
this is how i feel about Mitski, also Hop Along, Paramore, most of the pop/rock/indie stuff ppl enthuse about here, and I think getting older is to blame for much of it
― a roomba of one's own (rip van wanko), Wednesday, 22 August 2018 19:08 (five years ago) link
but man, when Geyser really kicks in at 1:20...that's a goosebump moment.
― alpine static, Wednesday, 22 August 2018 23:38 (five years ago) link
yeah if Geyser doesn't grab you then idk what to say
― ufo, Thursday, 23 August 2018 02:16 (five years ago) link
(I'm going to abandon ILX house style and do this like a RYM review, as is right)
track by track for all u neurotypical twats who don't get this exquisite aspie vibe (yes i just diagnosed mitski, w/e, it's my club too) (also obv u don't have to be aspie to enjoy this BUT IT PROBABLY HELPS)
geyser
gentle start with instantly queering touches like quietening organ drone, crazy glitch. no beats to even galumph over. slowly a tambourine enters, chords are lush. drums playing sparse 3-time beat. then suddenly the keyboards lurch in and the guitars and it's not so much galumphing as CRUSHING and SOARING at the same time, it is violent and the only way some people can process this is by saying 'oo er the drums and keys are playing every beat' but actually if u listen properly it's got a swinging sea-shanty beat, there's a canon between guitars and keys, there's a lot going on obv but u say it like she is just banging away like some teenage punk and that is bollocks, there is so much craft here
why didn't you stop me?
this might be the best track on the album (it's this or 'a pearl') and sure this one actually has a keyboard oscillation thru the whole song that by necessity plays every beat. i won't even bother to defend it except to say that the rest of the wildly varying instrumentation and contrasting sections build up into a beautiful and kickass quasi-britpop climax and u don't deserve mitski
old friend
this one has a slow, swinging beat that is constantly shifting time signature. it has an organ drone and sparse piano chords and the occasional keyboard flourish. oh but what about the guitar behind playing every beat please miss please please miss what about that guitar????!? well here's an idea why don't we ask kraftwerk why their songs needed a pulse to build around, the boring cunts! hey neu you're playing every beat! booooo
a pearl
this is just a fucking amazing song, nothing galumphing about it at all. it just sweeps over u so gracefully. lazy little drumbeat, then guitar explodes in, all while these long melodic phrases unwind at their leisure, then guitars explode in even harder playing these unearthly droning notes as everything gets echoplexed to fuck while still sounding laconic and resigned i mean what are you listening to
lonesome love
another shuffling lazy beat w/ same acoustic strum pattern, obv a country pastiche but takes this really dark turn for its iconic chorus which it does not repeat because it doesn't have to
remember my name
ok this one has some sort of treated guitar playing every beat, along with the bass and the drums FAIR PLAY YOU GOT HER THIS TIME. it's also a fantastic song w/ loads of lovely subtle touches. u have me riled. i mean i'd hardly call this 'galumphing', it moves quite slyly. the palette is intense but the execution is sophisticated
me and my husband
this is the one that sounds most like 'penny lane' or blur or w/e. it's a superficial similarity, call and response low and high notes, but it still has that shuffle and laconic attitude seen in almost all the tracks here. occasional organ flourish. other keys low in the mix. beautiful song.
come into the water
this is a little ambient folk-pop exercise fgs
nobody
galumphing discopop & the only track matt dc can remember. oh and the insistence is obv deliberately playing against the desperation of the lyrics and the melody i mean sure this isn't for u but it's not trying to be straight disco so please don't treat it like she ruined a potentially good song
pink in the night
another ambient pop exercise that plays around in the lower registers of your mind. loads of space in the mix. loads of long-held notes. when the martial drumbeat comes in it plays off that space and texture. it is an aesthetic and it's done so well
a horse named cold air
this song doesn't even have drums, just some really sparse piano chords and keyboard washes. i don't like it as much as the other tracks cos it sounds like 'pyramid song' too much but it is a nice pause for reflection. obv to call this 'galumphing' will see u laughed out of the room
washing machine heart
oh god no no oh god it's ANOTHER KEYBOARD PULSE THAT GOES ON ALL SONG! run and hide! shit the drums are doing it too! aaaaah! and there's more keys, but they're syncopated! and a guitar playing some lovely subtle chords! and she's singing a heavenly melody! what is this bastard mix of galumph and elegance?! why cant i handle it? (third best track btw)
blue light
here's that swinging, shuffling beat she used earlier (on 'lonesome love', fact fans!) but this time it's even sadder and stranger, the melody starts strong but almost immediately gets swallowed up in echoes and keyboard washes. the song retreats, hides, is lost. i think that's beautiful myself but maybe you're still listening to see if the drums are playing every beat (they're not)
two slow dancers
this song galumphs about as much as you'd expect a song called 'two slow dancers' to. there's a pulse that goes on the whole time, but it only plays one beat per bar (throughout the album, pulses playing against non-pulses has been a key part of the songwriting aesthetic). fun detail: the keyboards, when they flourish the first time, shift from playing on the beat to this perfectly woozy syncopation, echoing mitski's intonation of 'we're just two slow dancers'. it's genius
anyway i only did this because i fucking hate lazy criticism and to see it coming from a sitemod is doubly depressing. peace
― imago, Thursday, 23 August 2018 14:45 (five years ago) link
was there a way to do that without being a dick at the end
― princess of hell (BradNelson), Thursday, 23 August 2018 14:47 (five years ago) link
the ending was more facetious than hostile tbh, i do not mean any malice
― imago, Thursday, 23 August 2018 14:48 (five years ago) link
― imago, Wednesday, August 22, 2018 1:02 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
this is strange -- I like this album but besides "Geyser" and possibly a couple seconds of "Nobody" nothing about this album is maximalist at all, it's very low-key and mid-range emotionally.
― aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Thursday, 23 August 2018 14:50 (five years ago) link
well in my close-listening post there i discover that yeah while there's a lot going on there is a laconic & very defeated vibe at the heart of these songs
― imago, Thursday, 23 August 2018 14:52 (five years ago) link
(and this is coming from someone who very much likes pop maximalism -- like, something like Goldfrapp's "Ocean" is maximalist. or to keep things in the same general singer-songwriter vein, St. Vincent's "Fear the Future" is maximalist. maybe my bar for maximalist is just set way higher in music, it's set way higher in everything else in life after all)
― aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Thursday, 23 August 2018 14:53 (five years ago) link
i wonder if we have different definitions of maximalism. i think this is maximalist because the music has a lot of layers working in different but mutually-beneficial ways, but emotionally it is very melancholy. i don't think that stops it from being maximalist
― imago, Thursday, 23 August 2018 14:56 (five years ago) link
xp -- yeah, "laconic and defeated" is key and it's basically what she's said in every interview. like "Lonesome Love" is a hollowed-out <i>She Hangs Brightly</i> track -- it's basically exactly "Be My Angel"-- and it being hollowed-out and anti-climactic, pun intended, is the whole point
― aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Thursday, 23 August 2018 14:56 (five years ago) link
listening to 'fear the future' now (reluctantly as imo st vincent got p bad, 'actor' is still good) and i don't see how this is any more maximalistic than mitski. tbh its layers seem to be working more straightforwardly together than mitski's. there's electronic beats and big keyboards but it kind of just coalesces into one big thudding sugary triumphalist soup
― imago, Thursday, 23 August 2018 15:00 (five years ago) link
I mean, if you can't hear a fundamental difference in musical and emotional scale I'm not sure how to ever explain this
also not sure I'd apply the term "triumphalist" to a track that goes, very loudly, "I FEAR THE FUTURE," but
― aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Thursday, 23 August 2018 15:02 (five years ago) link
willing to bet what is left of my reputation on the average track on 'be the cowboy' having more layers than the average track on 'masseduction'. not that number of layers maps perfectly onto how maximalist something is but...yeah
― imago, Thursday, 23 August 2018 15:07 (five years ago) link
number of layers has nothing to do imo with how maximalist something sounds either on a literal level -- tracks tend to have a lot of layers that simply aren't obviously heard -- or figuratively. like, a cliff is more maximalist than an onion, even if the cliff is just one huge chunk of solid rock and the onion has dozens of layers
― aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Thursday, 23 August 2018 15:09 (five years ago) link
a cliff comprises thousands of fossilised strata
― imago, Thursday, 23 August 2018 15:11 (five years ago) link