U.S. Supreme Court: Post-Nino Edition

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GG isn't the poster boy for contrarian thinking like he thinks he is

Joe Gargan (dandydonweiner), Tuesday, 26 June 2018 16:26 (five years ago) link

Glenn Greenwald's constant drone of well-actuallying the libs is getting extremely tedious

Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive), Tuesday, 26 June 2018 17:41 (five years ago) link

There are times when it's worth pointing out a hypocrisy or inconsistency, but the way he does it is just enervating and pointless

Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive), Tuesday, 26 June 2018 17:42 (five years ago) link

"getting"?

devops mom (silby), Tuesday, 26 June 2018 17:45 (five years ago) link

Somehow an actual lawyer pic.twitter.com/ZXIGN8HJTp

— Quinoa🖕Appropriator (@MattAlwaysWrong) June 26, 2018

Nerdstrom Poindexter, Tuesday, 26 June 2018 18:38 (five years ago) link

obama almost definitely not have gotten away with it, but i bet if you gave him a crystal ball he would've tried to pack the court.

too bad crystal balls are make-believe, they could've helped a lot!

paul mccartney & whinge (voodoo chili), Tuesday, 26 June 2018 18:52 (five years ago) link

it's a lot more expedient to criticize him for mishandling the Garland situation. He unquestionably should've recess-appointed him and dared the GOP to try to remove him from the court.

paul mccartney & whinge (voodoo chili), Tuesday, 26 June 2018 18:54 (five years ago) link

Who could ever have foreseen the GOP would return to power at some point and ruthlessly exercise it

Simon H., Tuesday, 26 June 2018 18:56 (five years ago) link

you're crazy if you think that he could've gotten a 60-vote majority on a tenth justice, let alone an eleventh

paul mccartney & whinge (voodoo chili), Tuesday, 26 June 2018 18:59 (five years ago) link

the only precedent of attempted court-packing in american history happened when the most popular president of all time, the one who was elected to four terms, couldn't make it work with a massive majority in a time of even greater crisis than 2009

paul mccartney & whinge (voodoo chili), Tuesday, 26 June 2018 19:01 (five years ago) link

didn't he have a filibuster-proof majority for a hot minute, or do I have that wrong

Simon H., Tuesday, 26 June 2018 19:04 (five years ago) link

he would have if one of the senators in that majority wasn't Joe Lieberman

paul mccartney & whinge (voodoo chili), Tuesday, 26 June 2018 19:04 (five years ago) link

i have a hard time thinking that he would've been able to convince the Feinsteins, Schumers, and Feingolds of the senate to vote for court-packing

paul mccartney & whinge (voodoo chili), Tuesday, 26 June 2018 19:06 (five years ago) link

He had a veto-proof majority from mid '09 till January 2010.

morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 26 June 2018 19:33 (five years ago) link

back in those doe-eyed early days of the obama administration when we all thought we would enter a golden era of bipartisan cooperation

Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive), Tuesday, 26 June 2018 19:45 (five years ago) link

a shame Obama couldn't wave that magic wand!

morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 26 June 2018 19:55 (five years ago) link

I can sort of forgive the Chuck Schumers of the world for being Chuck Schumers in 2009, I just can't forgive them for being them in 2018.

Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive), Tuesday, 26 June 2018 19:58 (five years ago) link

back in those doe-eyed early days of the obama administration when we all thought we would enter a golden era of bipartisan cooperation

lol

Joe Gargan (dandydonweiner), Tuesday, 26 June 2018 20:03 (five years ago) link

Aside from bipartisan BS, court packing is several layers away from obama stylings even with giant crystal balls.

Hunt3r, Wednesday, 27 June 2018 02:36 (five years ago) link

Janus decision tomorrow 😖

There's more Italy than necessary. (in orbit), Wednesday, 27 June 2018 02:43 (five years ago) link

Yeah we know how thats gonna go

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 27 June 2018 02:48 (five years ago) link

really

Dan S, Wednesday, 27 June 2018 02:50 (five years ago) link

Expectation is it will hurt my employer big time. Inside take TK tmw after we all report to the mothership.

There's more Italy than necessary. (in orbit), Wednesday, 27 June 2018 03:00 (five years ago) link

WASHINGTON (AP) — Supreme Court rules states can't force government workers to pay union fees, a setback for organized labor

— Kyle Griffin (@kylegriffin1) June 27, 2018

morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 27 June 2018 14:09 (five years ago) link

So glad money is speech.

devops mom (silby), Wednesday, 27 June 2018 14:10 (five years ago) link

So what happens now? Like what changes for government unions -- do they ask everyone to fill out a form first before they can collect dues and give people the chance to opt out or what?

Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive), Wednesday, 27 June 2018 14:14 (five years ago) link

and the non-union members enjoy the benefits they didn't pay for

morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 27 June 2018 14:16 (five years ago) link

amazingly enough, only around 1/3 of government employees are unionized

Joe Gargan (dandydonweiner), Wednesday, 27 June 2018 14:31 (five years ago) link

xp yeah I get the free-ride aspect, but what is the practical mechanism by which this actually reduces govt unionization? What happens at the ground level?

Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive), Wednesday, 27 June 2018 14:39 (five years ago) link

lowers union revenues, likely contributes to the overall lowering of union acceptance/viability in the workplace

Joe Gargan (dandydonweiner), Wednesday, 27 June 2018 14:55 (five years ago) link

these guys doing a bang up job of late . fuck

(•̪●) (carne asada), Wednesday, 27 June 2018 14:56 (five years ago) link

CONSERVATIVES: If you want something, work hard and pay for it.
ALSO CONSERVATIVES: You should be able to benefit from union negotiations without paying dues.

Eliza D., Wednesday, 27 June 2018 14:59 (five years ago) link

i fucking hate this week

(•̪●) (carne asada), Wednesday, 27 June 2018 15:01 (five years ago) link

xpost Well, let's be totally blunt about it: conservatives' mythological notions of 'hard work' are often parasitic in nature. Exploit, oppress, reap the benefits and babble incoherently about your bootstraps and self-determination.

A Frankenstein + A Dracula + A Mummy That's Been Werewolfed (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 27 June 2018 15:06 (five years ago) link

at least no justices announced their retirement.. yet

officer sonny bonds, lytton pd (mayor jingleberries), Wednesday, 27 June 2018 15:10 (five years ago) link

Every single successful (rich) person I've ever met has nearly always downplayed the role of luck in their lives. And yes, it's possible through hard work to put yourself in a position to better take advantage of luck or even become "luckier" but random chance is undeniable in our lives. If bootstrapping means "treating people nicely" and "not being an asshole" then I can get on board but sooooo many hard working people also revel in assholery to get ahead in life. In fact, I wish we all worked a lot harder at avoiding assholery.

Joe Gargan (dandydonweiner), Wednesday, 27 June 2018 15:12 (five years ago) link

Hey, you know where you can stick your whole 'avoiding assholery' thing, pal.

Sorry, sorry.

A Frankenstein + A Dracula + A Mummy That's Been Werewolfed (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 27 June 2018 15:19 (five years ago) link

lowers union revenues, likely contributes to the overall lowering of union acceptance/viability in the workplace

― Joe Gargan (dandydonweiner), Wednesday, June 27, 2018 9:55 AM (twenty-three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

No I get that, I mean more specifically. Like until now they could just take the fees out of your paycheck. What happens now, they have to ask you if it's ok to take the fees out of your paycheck? Check a box yes or no?

Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive), Wednesday, 27 June 2018 15:20 (five years ago) link

The court based its ruling on the First Amendment, saying that requiring payments to unions that negotiate with the government forces workers to endorse political messages that may be at odds with their beliefs.

And yet I’m required to pay taxes that go toward things that are at odds with my beliefs. I may have a case here

Karl Malone, Wednesday, 27 June 2018 15:29 (five years ago) link

Gorsuch has your back!

morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 27 June 2018 15:34 (five years ago) link

I think one or two people may have tried that, let's dig up the corpse of Thoreau and ask him how that went

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 27 June 2018 15:35 (five years ago) link

Most rich people get rich by i) being born rich ii) being born a white man who looks like you should give them your money iii)being born without morals but an ability to grift. It's luck most of the way up.

Yerac, Wednesday, 27 June 2018 15:38 (five years ago) link

Clarence Thomas should've been forced to give up that seat ages ago. I guess pubic hair jokes never go out of style.

Yerac, Wednesday, 27 June 2018 15:39 (five years ago) link

yeah this is a horrible decision and very bad news for a whole hell of a lot of people. they're really racking those up, this week.

This is a total Jeff Porcaro. (Doctor Casino), Wednesday, 27 June 2018 15:49 (five years ago) link

kagan's dissent is brutal, cold comfort though that may be

This is a total Jeff Porcaro. (Doctor Casino), Wednesday, 27 June 2018 15:58 (five years ago) link

As usual I don't know whether to credit Kagan or her clerks, but her prose is refreshingly clear and jargon-free and not schoolboy stupid like Gorsuch's.

morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 27 June 2018 16:00 (five years ago) link

The majority claims it is not making a special and unjustified exception. It offers two main reasons for declining to apply here our usual deferential approach, as exemplified in Pickering, to the regulation of public employee speech. First, the majority says, this case involves a “blanket” policy rather than an individualized employment decision, so Pickering is a “painful fit.” Ante, at 23. Second, the majority asserts, the regulation here involves compelling rather than restricting speech, so the pain gets sharper still. See ante, at 24–25. And finally, the majority claims that even under the solicitous Pickering standard, the government should lose, because the speech here involves a matter of public concern and the government’s managerial interests do not justify its regulation. See ante, at 27–31. The majority goes wrong at every turn.

First, this Court has applied the same basic approach whether a public employee challenges a general policy or an individualized decision. Even the majority must con- cede that “we have sometimes looked to Pickering in considering general rules that affect broad categories of employees.” Ante, at 23. In fact, the majority cannot come up with any case in which we have not done so. All it can muster is one case in which while applying the Pickering test to a broad rule—barring any federal employee from accepting any payment for any speech or article on any topic—the Court noted that the policy’s breadth would count against the government at the test’s second step. See United States v. Treasury Employees, 513 U. S. 454 (1995). Which is completely predictable. The inquiry at that stage, after all, is whether the government has an employment-related interest in going however far it has gone—and in Treasury Employees, the government had indeed gone far. (The Court ultimately struck down the rule because it applied to speech in which the government had no identifiable managerial interest. See id., at 470, 477.) Nothing in Treasury Employees suggests that the Court defers only to ad hoc actions, and not to general rules, about public employee speech. That would be a perverse regime, given the greater regularity of rulemaking and the lesser danger of its abuse. So I would wager a small fortune that the next time a general rule governing public employee speech comes before us, we will dust off Pickering.

(...)

Consider an analogy, not involving union fees: Suppose a government entity disciplines a group of (non-unionized) employees for agitating for a better health plan at various inopportune times and places. The better health plan will of course drive up public spending; so according to the majority’s analysis, the employees’ speech satisfies Pickering’s “public concern” test. Or similarly, suppose a public employer penalizes a group of (non-unionized) teachers who protest merit pay in the school cafeteria. Once again, the majority’s logic runs, the speech is of “public concern,”so the employees have a plausible First Amendment claim. (And indeed, the majority appears to concede as much, by asserting that the results in these hypotheticals should turn on various “factual detail(s)” relevant to the interest balancing that occurs at the Pickering test’s second step. Ante, at 32, n. 23.) But in fact, this Court has always understood such cases to end at Pickering’s first step: If an employee’s speech is about, in, and directed to the work- place, she has no “possibility of a First Amendment claim.” Garcetti, 547 U. S., at 418; see supra, at 11. So take your pick. Either the majority is exposing government entities across the country to increased First Amendment litigation and liability—and thus preventing them from regulating their workforces as private employers could. Or else, when actual cases of this kind come around, we will discover that today’s majority has crafted a “unions only” carve-out to our employee-speech law.

(...)

So all that the majority has left is Knox and Harris. See ante, at 43. Dicta in those recent decisions indeed began the assault on Abood that has culminated today. But neither actually addressed the extent to which a public employer may regulate its own employees’ speech. Relying on them is boot-strapping—and mocking stare decisis. Don’t like a decision? Just throw some gratuitous criticisms into a couple of opinions and a few years later point to them as “special justifications.”

(...)

There is no sugarcoating today’s opinion. The majority overthrows a decision entrenched in this Nation’s law— and in its economic life—for over 40 years. As a result, it prevents the American people, acting through their state and local officials, from making important choices about workplace governance. And it does so by weaponizing the First Amendment, in a way that unleashes judges, now and in the future, to intervene in economic and regulatory policy.

Departures from stare decisis are supposed to be “exceptional action(s)” demanding “special justification,” Rum-sey, 467 U. S., at 212—but the majority offers nothing like that here. In contrast to the vigor of its attack on Abood, the majority’s discussion of stare decisis barely limps to the finish line. And no wonder: The standard factors this Court considers when deciding to overrule a decision all cut one way. Abood’s legal underpinnings have not eroded over time: Abood is now, as it was when issued, consistent with this Court’s First Amendment law. Abood provided a workable standard for courts to apply. And Abood has generated enormous reliance interests. The majority has overruled Abood for no exceptional or special reason, but because it never liked the decision. It has overruled Abood because it wanted to.

Because, that is, it wanted to pick the winning side in what should be—and until now, has been—an energetic policy debate. Some state and local governments (and the constituents they serve) think that stable unions promote healthy labor relations and thereby improve the provision of services to the public. Other state and local governments (and their constituents) think, to the contrary, that strong unions impose excessive costs and impair those services. Americans have debated the pros and cons for many decades—in large part, by deciding whether to use fair-share arrangements. Yesterday, 22 States were on one side, 28 on the other (ignoring a couple of in-betweeners). Today, that healthy—that democratic— debate ends. The majority has adjudged who should prevail. Indeed, the majority is bursting with pride over what it has accomplished: Now those 22 States, it crows, “can follow the model of the federal government and 28 other States.” Ante, at 47, n. 27. And maybe most alarming, the majority has chosen the winners by turning the First Amendment into a sword, and using it against workaday economic and regulatory policy.

This is a total Jeff Porcaro. (Doctor Casino), Wednesday, 27 June 2018 16:16 (five years ago) link

(sorry for long quotes but if you've not time to read the whole dissent, it's a greatest hits)

This is a total Jeff Porcaro. (Doctor Casino), Wednesday, 27 June 2018 16:17 (five years ago) link


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