― thesplooge (thesplooge), Wednesday, 28 April 2004 12:35 (twenty years ago) link
― Sym (shmuel), Wednesday, 28 April 2004 12:36 (twenty years ago) link
― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Wednesday, 28 April 2004 12:38 (twenty years ago) link
― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Wednesday, 28 April 2004 12:39 (twenty years ago) link
It speaks volumes, too, that you're unable to respond to the many positive points in my original post.
Oh, well, that would seem to be that.
Apologies to everyone else for this dreary exchange. It has depressed me hugely.
David
― David Peschek, Wednesday, 28 April 2004 12:41 (twenty years ago) link
He said it from of Stephen Stills and Bonnie Bramlett, he claims to wind them up - what with him being a real hardcore punker and all (chortle). To her eternal credit, Bonnie Bramlett walloped the little weasel.
― Dadaismus (Dada), Wednesday, 28 April 2004 12:43 (twenty years ago) link
He said it in front of Stephen Stills...
― Dadaismus (Dada), Wednesday, 28 April 2004 12:44 (twenty years ago) link
(Could someone with a UK law degree give some legal perspective on this on the moderator board?)
(oops xpost)
― MODERATOR (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 28 April 2004 12:45 (twenty years ago) link
if his comment wasnt well received, he would never have apologised.
― thesplooge (thesplooge), Wednesday, 28 April 2004 12:46 (twenty years ago) link
wasn't it 'blind, ignorant nigger'?
as for the carlin/uncut dust-up.....Jesus H.Clapton.
― ..., Wednesday, 28 April 2004 13:21 (twenty years ago) link
― Jesus H. Clapton, Wednesday, 28 April 2004 13:52 (twenty years ago) link
― Donna Brown (Donna Brown), Wednesday, 28 April 2004 15:34 (twenty years ago) link
― latebloomer (latebloomer), Wednesday, 28 April 2004 15:36 (twenty years ago) link
Wait they asked HIM to tweak the line and he got pissed off?
― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 28 April 2004 18:07 (twenty years ago) link
― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 28 April 2004 18:14 (twenty years ago) link
― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 28 April 2004 18:20 (twenty years ago) link
!!!
― cozen (Cozen), Wednesday, 28 April 2004 18:24 (twenty years ago) link
As someone with some legal training I can confirm that this is every bit as valid as most of Marcello's opinions.
― barry stir, Wednesday, 28 April 2004 18:25 (twenty years ago) link
― Barry Bruner (Barry Bruner), Wednesday, 28 April 2004 18:26 (twenty years ago) link
― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 28 April 2004 18:27 (twenty years ago) link
However, he is by no means racist.
― David Allen (David Allen), Wednesday, 28 April 2004 18:27 (twenty years ago) link
http://www.clarence.com/contents/musica/speciali/030527him/images/intro.jpg
― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Wednesday, 28 April 2004 18:35 (twenty years ago) link
― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Wednesday, 28 April 2004 18:50 (twenty years ago) link
― El Diablo Curmudgeonbotico (Nicole), Wednesday, 28 April 2004 19:12 (twenty years ago) link
― cozen (Cozen), Wednesday, 28 April 2004 19:21 (twenty years ago) link
Wasn't he also shitfaced when he said it? Not that that excuses it, of course, but I'd put it nearer to Bowie's coked-up nazi chic folly than Clapton's unapologetic Powell support.
― Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Wednesday, 28 April 2004 19:35 (twenty years ago) link
― cinniblount (James Blount), Wednesday, 28 April 2004 19:37 (twenty years ago) link
― Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Wednesday, 28 April 2004 19:41 (twenty years ago) link
He was the first musician to drop the N-bomb on a UK top 10 single as well, remember ("Oliver's Army").
― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Wednesday, 28 April 2004 19:42 (twenty years ago) link
― hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 28 April 2004 19:44 (twenty years ago) link
― hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 28 April 2004 19:45 (twenty years ago) link
― Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Wednesday, 28 April 2004 19:58 (twenty years ago) link
― Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Wednesday, 28 April 2004 20:03 (twenty years ago) link
― thesplooge (thesplooge), Wednesday, 28 April 2004 21:30 (twenty years ago) link
― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Wednesday, 28 April 2004 22:10 (twenty years ago) link
― David Allen (David Allen), Wednesday, 28 April 2004 22:16 (twenty years ago) link
― hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 28 April 2004 22:17 (twenty years ago) link
also, dave and thesplooge: I've never called anyone a nigger whilst drunk either, or indeed witnessed anyone doing so. I have, however, seen friends and acquaintances indulge in talk and behaviour that, if I thought that it was a genuine reflection of their personality, I'd be *very* worried about them; and frankly, the thought of someone judging *me* based on drunken behaviour on my part very much frightens me, too.
― Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Wednesday, 28 April 2004 23:42 (twenty years ago) link
ie, he liked them as a construct, not a reality, they were nice in the pretty picture books and on the records, and even in the studio! but, please, dont move next door to eric!
― gareth (gareth), Thursday, 29 April 2004 06:25 (twenty years ago) link
and, also, you could argue that his pro-powellist racism was primarily aimed at pakistani and indian (and, given the time frame, especially ugandan indians fleeing amin) rather than at britains black population, and that he saw no contradiction here.
i believe this to be racist behaviour
― gareth (gareth), Thursday, 29 April 2004 06:29 (twenty years ago) link
That anyone can seriously believe that Elvis Costello thought Ray Charles was a "blind ignorant nigger" is amazing.
― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Thursday, 29 April 2004 10:33 (twenty years ago) link
― N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 29 April 2004 10:46 (twenty years ago) link
Belief that other races are intrinsically inferior to your own is clearly racism.
The belief that too rapid an influx of people from other races and cultures into your own may lead to negative consequences is more problematic. I think it is at least possible to hold that view without being racist (ie if you believe the trouble will be caused by aspects of human nature common to all races).
― Hidayglo, Thursday, 29 April 2004 10:58 (twenty years ago) link
But I also know absolutley nothing about British politics.
― David Allen (David Allen), Thursday, 29 April 2004 11:45 (twenty years ago) link
― ENRQ (Enrique), Thursday, 29 April 2004 11:52 (twenty years ago) link
― mark grout (mark grout), Thursday, 29 April 2004 12:04 (twenty years ago) link
I go to civil rights rallies And I put down the old D.A.R. I love Harry and Sidney and Sammy I hope every coloured boy becomes a star But don't talk about revolution That's going a little bit too far So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal
I cheered when Humphrey was chosen My faith in the system restored I'm glad the commies were thrown out of the AFL-CIO board I love Puerto Ricans and Negros as long as they don't move next door So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal
The people of old Mississippi Should all hang their heads in shame I can't understand how their minds work What's the matter don't they watch Les Crain? But if you ask me to bus my children I hope the cops take down your name So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal
I read New Republic and Nation I've learned to take every view You know, I've memorized Lerner and Golden I feel like I'm almost a Jew But when it comes to times like Korea There's no one more red, white and blue So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal
I vote for the Democratic Party. They want the U.N. to be strong I go to all the Pete Seeger concerts He sure gets me singing those songs I'll send all the money you ask for But don't ask me to come on along So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal
Once I was young and impulsive I wore every conceivable pin Even went to the socialist meetings Learned all the old union hymns But I've grown older and wiser And that's why I'm turning you in So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal
― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Thursday, 29 April 2004 13:37 (twenty years ago) link
― mark grout (mark grout), Thursday, 29 April 2004 13:45 (twenty years ago) link
To be fair, in the context of the times, this was not such an extreme view. The conventional wisdom among economists at the time was that hard choices had to be made in the trade off between unemployment and inflation (or "stagflation"). Full employment was an inappropriate goal because the last x% of jobs were bought at too high a price for the economy as a whole. Even many left-wing economists accepted this as (regrettably) true.
Right-wing economic view are not necessarily racist. Right-wingers broadly believe that people should keep what they earn and that wealth should not be redistributed to the poor. If a disproportionate amount of the poor are from particular racial groups that may look like racism.
Of course as a generalisation people opposed to any redistribution of wealth to the less well off are more likely to be racist than people who approve of redistribution, but being opposed to redistribution is not necessarily racist in itself.
― Hidayglo, Thursday, 29 April 2004 14:09 (twenty years ago) link
Have we entered some kind of socialist dream without my noticing. That sounds more like the conventional trade-off now than the one perceived then. I don't thin k it was till New Labour that the goal of full employment was quietly dropped.
― N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 29 April 2004 14:18 (twenty years ago) link