Inquiry into child abuse at Catholic institutions in Ireland

x-post yeah you may be right that they weren't priests, I'm not sure actually myself. I think my Dad would have had similar experience as your Grandad, corporal punishment seems to have been common in the day schools. I suppose it was boarding schools and orphanages etc where the sexual abuse went on. The really horrible part about it is that it was almost like a ripple effect from the state having such weird religiously tainted ways of dealing with orphans/kids born out of wedlock etc etc...

My grandfather left Belfast when he was 6 months old in 1899. He died when I was 3 months old. I assume he had relatives in the south, i hate the thought of anyone going to those places.

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-60996841.html

damn you need an account to read it

The really horrible part about it is that it was almost like a ripple effect from the state having such weird religiously tainted ways of dealing with orphans/kids born out of wedlock etc etc...

― Local Garda, Thursday, 21 May 2009 15:10 (9 minutes ago) Bookmark

what was amazing to me was it wasn't just orphans and kids born out of wedlock, but if a kid just skipped school he might end up being sent to an industrial school. they were run as moneymaking scams, taking big sums from the govt and spending the minimum on care, and they had a constant appetite for new recruits. so when there were insufficient orphans, so they went around inventing reasons to take kids in.

but it's about how the bishop covered up about the priest i mentioned upthread

what was amazing to me was it wasn't just orphans and kids born out of wedlock, but if a kid just skipped school he might end up being sent to an industrial school.

Indeed, the judiciary were as culpable as the Church and various governments which, uhhhhhhh, doesn't leave much

no wonder names have been kept out of it and there's no prosecutions.

christian brothers sued for anonymity in the report

going back a few years, the church have paid 100m to the govt, in return for complete indmenity against all further compensation claims. ie- the taxpayer will pay for most of these cases.

cardinals have resigned due to the public uncovering of their lack of co-operation with legal investigations, using canon/church law as an excuse.

i'm glad i was never religious to begin with.

i can't believe more than one of yous was an altar boy! You dorks.

you weren't one?

i bet you were an altar boy at st john the baptists in uddingston but you just dont want to admit it.

i was forced to go to church until i was 13 so i went to st johns + st brides in bothwell every Sunday but i never wanted to be an altar boy and we used to make fun of the altar boys for being religious.

although most of them weren't, never really understood that.

they just liked ringing the bell or whatever.

how on earth can the Christian brothers sue for anonymity in a report that reports criminal acts? Is it a civil report? Either way, bunch of cnuts.

Stealing the communion wine seemed to be a popular pastime.

xp

they just liked ringing the bell or whatever.

Euphemisms-R-Us

yeah, that was badly phrased. I always feel bad about all these horror stories of the catholic church, because although I'm not at all religious and have no interest in it my experiences with the catholic church and priests is as positive as can be. Our school chaplin Father Miller smoked, drank pints, went to Celtic games and drove a convertible, he was cool.

communion wine is minging.

i bet you love the smell of incense, jim ;)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8381119.stm

It wont harm The Priests album in the charts though I bet.

what amazes me now...thinking more on this, is the motivation behind the cover up. it just seems the most irreligious sentiment imaginable, we can't reveal that a man is raping children because then the faith we represent will lose credibility. what the fuck do you represent if that's what you're doing? good riddance to them.

institutional religion in the gutter

20 years ago you could rape a child in the street

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/8556659.stm

..... almost used to this kind of story by now, except that it's refreshing that someone bothered to track one down and ask him a question or two.

i'd imagine that irish media won't be naming him.

Really?

maybe now that it's broken in the uk, but there was injunctions against the naming of priests involved (for the most part, certainly) under all of the proceedings so far.

i know i slag off your labour and democratic governments guys, but at least they don't cut deals with systematic child abuse organisations.

head of the church here. bit tl:dr, but the essentials are fairly eye-popping.

"The Catholic primate Cardinal Seán Brady has renewed his intention to resist calls for his resignation following revelations about his involvement in a 1975 canonical inquiry into child sex abuser Fr Brendan Smyth.

Cardinal Brady yesterday defended his role at the meeting where a boy (10) and a girl (14) who were abused by Smyth were forced to take a vow of silence. He denied he helped to cover up cases of alleged sex abuse of children in the diocese of Kilmore and insisted he would not resign.

Smyth pleaded guilty to 74 charges of sexually abusing children between 1958 and 1993. Sentenced to seven years in prison, Smyth (70) died in jail in 1997.

The cardinal was a priest and a teacher in Kilmore when he was asked to interview two children, under oath of secrecy, by the then bishop Dr Francis McKiernan. He said these interviews formed the basis of the action taken to remove Smyth from pastoral ministry, adding that he was not the “designated person” to report the issue to the civil authorities. He also denied the oath of secrecy was designed to protect the church.

........

In an interview broadcast on RTÉ’s Morning Ireland today, Dr Brady said he was aware of the calls for him to resign. “I’ve heard those calls, I’ve said I don’t think it was a resigning matter,” he said. “I’ve also heard other calls, many other calls, to stay and to continue the work of addressing this most difficult problem.”

Dr Brady referred to an interview with RTÉ last December in which he said he would resign if he ever found children had been abused as a result of any failing on his part while a bishop or manager. “Well, 30 years ago, 35 years ago, I was not a bishop, I was not a manager, I was a full-time secondary teacher and I was there taking evidence,” he said.

"Thirty-five years ago we were in a different world. We had no guidance, we were in unchartered territory. Now we have higher standards thankfully and certainly I wouldn't act in the same way now as I did then," he added.

The cardinal said there were growing calls for more discourse on “this most painful, most complex and devastating problem” and resignations would not help this process. “I add my voice to those calls for more discussion on the part of all of society, and especially on the part of those most closely involved - the members of the medical profession, the legal profession, the media - about how it is handled,” he said.

Cardinal Brady said the fact that Smyth had gone on to commit further acts of abuse was "because others didn't do their duty."

"I felt I did my duty, the duty that was assigned to me by my bishop. It's not fair to judge actions of 35 years ago by the standards we are following today," he said.

Dr Brady also apologised to the victims of Smyth. "I am deeply sorry that this happened and am committed to doing my utmost now to bring healing and closure and to ensure that such crimes are never committed again."

In a separate interview with BBC Radio Ulster, Dr Brady said he had helped gather evidence for the church to stop Smyth operating as a priest, and that thereafter it was the relevant bishop, plus Smyth’s religious order, who had responsibility for the case.

“Now I know with hindsight that I should have done more, but I thought at the time I was doing what I was required to do. Not just that, but most effectively, I can tell you, I acted with great urgency to get that evidence and to produce it and I believed that in doing so I was following the most effective route to have this stopped and that was my main concern and always has been - the safety of children,” he said.

He said he would only resign “if asked by the Holy Father”.
"

I mean I just want to recap on what one of the most senior church members in Ireland has to say about being present at (and conducting, in cases) interviews where abused children were asked to swear oaths of secrecy.

"I felt I did my duty, the duty that was assigned to me by my bishop. It's not fair to judge actions of 35 years ago by the standards we are following today," he said.

"Thirty-five years ago we were in a different world. We had no guidance, we were in unchartered territory.

"I felt I did my duty, the duty that was assigned to me by my bishop. It's not fair to judge actions of 35 years ago by the standards we are following today,"

It's a pity that I don't believe in a hell that this guy will rot in, tbh.

Dr Brady referred to an interview with RTÉ last December in which he said he would resign if he ever found children had been abused as a result of any failing on his part while a bishop or manager. “Well, 30 years ago, 35 years ago, I was not a bishop, I was not a manager, I was a full-time secondary teacher and I was there taking evidence,” he said.

fucking hell

This isn't even a moral issue for the guy- I've heard him interviewed over the past few days- he was asked to look into this, he looked into it, he ensured silence, he reported back to his superiors.

A spy novelists fucking dream, this guy.

Is there no way public opinion can force him to resign? Or are people putting their heads under the carpet and pretending its all not happened to their church? I just cant imagine that happening here even amongst the most dedicated catholics.
I just cant understand the mindset of those who have covered stuff up just to protect the church's reputation. At least those guys must believe they're going to hell... oh wait if they confessed their sins to a fellow priest then they believe they're ok. Fucking hell.

im still pissed off that a paedo priest from the 70s was allowed to be my parish priest when i was a teenager in the late 80s. I'm glad I wasn't an altar boy there, though I haven't heard of any allegations that he did it after he was moved. Then again, after the daily record piece on him where they said he had been sent to canada to a home to be rehabilitated, i never heard of him facing any charges either. He was under 60 so there's a good chance he's still alive.

Public opinion forcing him to resign- No. Not a chance. Will take a direct request from Ratzinger. This generation of churchmen were inculculated in the 50's and 60's, remember- the irish general public is literally their flock.

people pretending it's not happening- no, ever since these stories broke (the smyth case in particular, which brought down a govt when we refused to extradite him to the north in 94, leading to a junior calition party to withdraw from government) public opinion hasn't been soft on the church. nobody will back him entirely, and very few will even allow any leeway for his defence (under canon law i acted correctly)

no sign of our govt acting decisively on this, which is the most depressing part. obviously the church is fucked, and if there is nobody currently elected willing to speak publicly on this in the necessary terms (up to and including arrests of senior hierarchy imo) then we're still 30-40 years behind where i'd have hoped.

basically, we, as a country, are fucked- the church and the political/legal establishments are willing (fair enough, i'm far from an idealist) and completely able (extremely worrying) to ignore child abuse and the covering up of child abuse on a systematic and institutionalised basis.

Cardinal Brady said the fact that Smyth had gone on to commit further acts of abuse was "because others didn't do their duty."

And it's not like any priests or bishops or cardinals or anything can come out and campaign for reform within the church to tackle this or anything as they will swiftly get reprimanded/sent on missionary work to a minefield infested country. Very sad that the irish government wont do anything either because it would mean it coming out that prominent politicians were either involved in the abuse or the cover ups.
No chance of one of the opposition parties running with this and getting into power promising they will do something about it all?

20 years ago you could rape a child in the street

― I see what this is (Local Garda)
lol

Cardinal Brady said the fact that Smyth had gone on to commit further acts of abuse was "because others didn't do their duty. cardinal brady didn't go to the police and get the paedophile cunt jailed like he should have "

fuck's sake man, can't you read? that wasn't his job.

what did he pass first? the buck or the lube?

Brendan Smyth (1927–1997) was a Catholic priest who became notorious as a child molester, using his position in the Church to obtain access to his victims. During a period of over 40 years, Smyth sexually abused and indecently assaulted an estimated ninety[1] children in parishes in Belfast, Dublin and the United States.

welp thats crystal swing explained

In May 1999 the Irish Taoiseach Bertie Ahern apologized for an overall lack of supervision and funding by past Irish governments. Despite the eminent position of the church in Irish society, suing it (as in the case of Sean Fortune) was found to be equivalent to suing any club or social group. In 2002 his government agreed to take on €128 million in church property and investments and in return it would pay compensation to all church abuse victims, so that bankruptcy could be avoided. This deal was estimated to cost over €1 billion to Irish taxpayers of all religions, and the relevant minister, Michael Woods, was criticized by some for undue leniency to the church.[15] Criminal actions could still be brought separately against alleged abusers. However out of the 100 allegations there have been only five criminal convictions

these abuses seem to be considered as institutional failings and for sure there is a lot of anticlerical disgust but little acknowledgement of the psychopathology inherent in catholic dogma

it's very easy for people to be scathing about the church whilst really being quite accepting of its place in public life

psychopathology inherent in catholic dogma

in what way?

I wanted to go into that more with kev there too.

the Iona/far right balance issue is a case of Irish establishment either believing that there is a silently majority out there cheering Iona on (not my experience but I won't discount it), that 'balance' requires a fifty-fifty share of coverage, airtime and moderation without regard to fact or reason (def don't discount this) or that fuckit, its better TV to have the most partisan loudmouths possible on there regardless of misrepresentation.

all options are profoundly depressing so I turn gladly to conspiracy tbph

so my dad just found out that his grandparents were his granduncle/aunt- his grandmother was packed off to Dublin to have the child and was on the boat to the states a fortnight later. she never saw her son again despite returning to Ireland twice for him.

she married in NYC, had 6 kids (including a supreme court judge?) and one of her grandchildren made contact with dad today to meet up and trade stories.

all because lol catholic church lol ireland lol 1911, giving kid to your brother to raise and leaving home forever was the better alternative.

hmm seems more likely a court of appeals judge, nm

well then, only the court of appeals you say. then he's hardly made a noise in the world at all.

ugh he's an anti death penalty campaigner imma call dad back tell him to call the whole thing off

my old parish priest back in the news
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-34504729

I had an auntie who turned out be my half-sister. I got relegated to some foam on the floor for 4 years when she moved into our 2 bedroom house, it was an early lesson in dread lol catholicism for me :(

sort of on topic:p

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/05/14/cesnik-nun-murder-maskell_n_7267532.html

I am watching my national news service running a major story on a woman that was miraculously healed after visiting a shrine in my home county where the virgin mary appeared on a gable along with sundry others in 1879 and tear this fucking country down please

Knock? Easily the creepiest place in the country I’ve ever been to.

ive conducted housing interviews in day-long batches there and v noticeable strain of crazy vs the other six centres

Knock do some cracking holy water though, it might have cured me of the bollocking I got for greedily drinking a gulp of it once whilst "pooching" in the grown-up section of the childhood slum!

I didn't dare replace it with tap water lest i got struck down.