SIMON REYNOLDS DISCUSSES CURRENT DANCE MUSIC IN TODAY'S NY TIMES

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Would it ruin the joke if you explained it to me?

I'm guessing it's a response to jaymc's comment.

tokyo rosemary (rosemary), Sunday, 23 January 2005 13:37 (nineteen years ago) link

electroclash is going to end up being seen as the movement that saved dance. I keep saying we're Europeans now, but it's true, dancewise

Ronan totally OTM.

That's why this

In fact, some North American D.J.'s and producers like Richie Hawtin have moved to Germany because the climate for electronic music is more supportive

is basically the whole story. Maybe Simon needs to move to Cologne? ;)
Said it in another thread some time ago but dance here is seeing an influx of young people. And this year Dance Valley is probably going to become a three-day festival, so in rockspeak were actually getting into 1969/ the Woodstock phase. :) Now where are The Stooges?

Omar (Omar), Sunday, 23 January 2005 13:48 (nineteen years ago) link

i remain truly baffled by reynolds' commitment to the most cliched narrative of rock's development as template for all musical forms

bugged out, Sunday, 23 January 2005 14:00 (nineteen years ago) link

the last sentence of the article is what baffles me.

and disco nihilist otm.

it's tricky (disco stu), Sunday, 23 January 2005 14:08 (nineteen years ago) link

ilm standard believer response=listen as a dancer etc

If you're thinking about the mainstream (in the US) and why dance is not as popular (anymore), then you have to look at how the public generally tends to listen/view artists: They want a *face* something which isn't as prevalent in dance.

stevie nixed (stevie nixed), Sunday, 23 January 2005 14:13 (nineteen years ago) link

Dig Your Own Hole was a top-ten album, so yes.

actually, DYOH debuted at no. 14 and went gold half a year later. Not bad at all, but the "teeming throngs" line feels a bit facetious, especially since they've released two albums since then have each done worse than that.

miccio (miccio), Sunday, 23 January 2005 14:15 (nineteen years ago) link

chem bros have always been about the rock kids anyway

it's tricky (disco stu), Sunday, 23 January 2005 14:27 (nineteen years ago) link

your line, pal, not mine

Matos W.K. (M Matos), Sunday, 23 January 2005 14:41 (nineteen years ago) link

Simon's actually

miccio (miccio), Sunday, 23 January 2005 14:47 (nineteen years ago) link

ah--I was responding to your inquiry more than the article. got it.

Matos W.K. (M Matos), Sunday, 23 January 2005 14:48 (nineteen years ago) link

anyhow, I think it's obvious that teeming throngs is an exaggerated image for what we're talking about. (and what Simon is, and that it's deliberate hyperbole.)

Matos W.K. (M Matos), Sunday, 23 January 2005 14:51 (nineteen years ago) link

I'm guessing it's a response to jaymc's comment.

She's right. (Google "lenny bruce," "vaughn meader" and "kennedy" together to get a fuller explanation.)

Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 23 January 2005 16:16 (nineteen years ago) link

even the artists that did thrive in the "heyday" of american acceptance of dance music didn't exactly enthrall listeners album-wise... most people were just listening to the singles over and over again, with perhaps the exception of fatboy slim and a few of the poppier one hit wonder types

yeah, when were prodigy and fatboy slim hip on the real dancefloors? never. its all about the singles and compilation mix albums in the REAL danceculture. the culture that brings money to the table, the 'kids'

They aren't waiting on a new Daft Punk either, they just want Dave Clarke to put out a new mix album.

Rizz (Rizz), Sunday, 23 January 2005 16:48 (nineteen years ago) link

This reminds me of a panel that I saw at CMJ this year about the state of dance music. Tricia Romano was the moderator, Tommy Sunshine was the most vocal panelist. Both of them were fairly reasonable, but the general thrust of the discussion was essentially "whiiiine, the kind of dance music/dance music experience that I like isn't popular in the US, whiiiine" while willfully ignoring or dismissing any other kind of dance music that IS popular in the US. Just maddeningly elitist! Britney Spears has a bunch of dance hits and those songs are huge. How is "Toxic" not a dance song? It makes a lot more people want to dance than fucking Tiefschwarz and the Kompakt gang ever will. A lot of cheesy danceclubs do okay - why is that illegitimate? Hip hop clubs are obvs doing well. It's ridiculous to expect a huge number of people to get excited about a sort of club culture that is irrelevant to their lifestyle and native pop culture. You like the clubs and dance music in Europe? That's cool. But don't expect it to translate in America and more than you might expect any other regional dance culture from any other part of the world to get huge in America.

Matthew "Flux" Perpetua, Sunday, 23 January 2005 17:14 (nineteen years ago) link

It's funny how I have no difficulty finding a lot of great dance-pop music for my site, but guys like Reynolds et al would never deign to consider that "serious" dance music. Like, why isn't he talking about USE? That seems more like the future of the kind of music that he favors than anything else. Fuck purity and skinny guys with computers and turntables, people respond to a big fuck-off party band a la Parliament/Funkadelic.

Matthew "Flux" Perpetua, Sunday, 23 January 2005 17:19 (nineteen years ago) link

matthew OTM.

djdee2005 (djdee2005), Sunday, 23 January 2005 17:43 (nineteen years ago) link

people respond to a big fuck-off party band a la Parliament/Funkadelic

Or Kiss?

Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 23 January 2005 17:50 (nineteen years ago) link

This thread lacks a picture of Moby.
http://www.mute.de/artists/bilder/moby/02/5.jpg

miccio (miccio), Sunday, 23 January 2005 17:56 (nineteen years ago) link

I want to take the Bride's sword and cut him off at the feet.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 23 January 2005 17:56 (nineteen years ago) link

this thread is ripe to be a 10-15 minute funkrockgroove

Rizz (Rizz), Sunday, 23 January 2005 17:58 (nineteen years ago) link

xpost

Screw that, we're talking about dancing and having fun, and that's NOT Moby these days. What we need is a picture of Altern 8:

http://www.trancentral.ru/pix00/10_misc/altern8.jpg

MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Sunday, 23 January 2005 17:58 (nineteen years ago) link

Moby likes to dance! Moby likes to have fun!

http://www.yegor.com/Music/moby-7.jpg

see? Lookee!

miccio (miccio), Sunday, 23 January 2005 18:00 (nineteen years ago) link

The fact is that dance music failed to produce pop hits the same way hip-hop did/does.

In the UK in the 90s there were dance #1s coming out on a fucking conveyer belt. The big problem is that most of them were rubbish.

Matt DC (Matt DC), Sunday, 23 January 2005 18:47 (nineteen years ago) link

Moby's new album is also the most innocuous, uninspired, virtually UNDANCEABLE piece of shite I've heard in a long time.

Blightersrock (Da ve Segal), Sunday, 23 January 2005 19:34 (nineteen years ago) link

I rarely, if ever, say this, but Perpetua totally OTM.

hstencil (hstencil), Sunday, 23 January 2005 19:50 (nineteen years ago) link

er isnt this thread just split dirwectly on US and European* lines? i think both sides have totally different ideas of what "dance music" is, and siad "dance music" has had totally different trajectories either side of the pond

*or is it Rest of World?

ambrose (ambrose), Sunday, 23 January 2005 19:52 (nineteen years ago) link

well yeah, but this thread is about an article in the NYT, one of the most prominent papers in the US.

hstencil (hstencil), Sunday, 23 January 2005 19:54 (nineteen years ago) link

No, the Americans are just being disingenuous. In the pedantic sense, all sorts of music are dance music, but in the world of music genres, "dance" refers to a specific set of musics and everyone knows what they are.

bugged out, Sunday, 23 January 2005 19:56 (nineteen years ago) link

yeah well i think that's more disingenous - I suppose some people wouldn't consider rock music as a dance music but of course they'd be wrong. that's what it originated as, after all.

hstencil (hstencil), Sunday, 23 January 2005 20:00 (nineteen years ago) link

i guess you can't read

bugged out, Sunday, 23 January 2005 20:02 (nineteen years ago) link

heads up ! notice:

Laurent Garnier is presenting the 6 Mix show on 6 Music, NOW ! 8pm - 10 pm

Sunday 23 January
Influential European DJ figurehead Garnier enjoyed a previous life as a restaurant manager, then footman at the French Embassy ...

DJ Martian (djmartian), Sunday, 23 January 2005 20:05 (nineteen years ago) link

no need to get even more bugged out, bugged out.

hstencil (hstencil), Sunday, 23 January 2005 20:07 (nineteen years ago) link

er isnt this thread just split dirwectly on US and European* lines?

I think this is true about much of ILM

tokyo rosemary (rosemary), Sunday, 23 January 2005 20:12 (nineteen years ago) link

everything in common but language.

hstencil (hstencil), Sunday, 23 January 2005 20:13 (nineteen years ago) link

It's funny how I have no difficulty finding a lot of great dance-pop music for my site, but guys like Reynolds et al would never deign to consider that "serious" dance music. Like, why isn't he talking about USE? That seems more like the future of the kind of music that he favors than anything else. Fuck purity and skinny guys with computers and turntables, people respond to a big fuck-off party band a la Parliament/Funkadelic.

Maybe he should have mentioned Waltzes as well. I mean, okay, Britney Spears makes Dance Pop. You can dance to Rock. If it has a beat, you can dance to it. But he's talking about Dance - from Chem Bros to Kompakt. I mean, this is an article not about him (and what music he likes) but about the state of Dance music in the US.

stevie nixed (stevie nixed), Sunday, 23 January 2005 20:13 (nineteen years ago) link

hstencil teaches us rock history, lesson #1

fatfreddy, Sunday, 23 January 2005 20:15 (nineteen years ago) link

xpost - isn't USE an american dance band tho?

xxpost - history is written by the "winners"

hstencil (hstencil), Sunday, 23 January 2005 20:16 (nineteen years ago) link

do we really need to ever hear any more Americans moaning about the nazi like gas showering fascism of the genre name DANCE. apparently if a dance critic hears of anyone dancing to any other music, or any record which is not DANCE, his blood boils with anger!!!

That's right, we're stopping you from dancing to any records except electronic ones, with physical force.

And fuck the barely concealed contempt in the you can dance to all sorts of music too whining

Ronan (Ronan), Sunday, 23 January 2005 20:18 (nineteen years ago) link

who's whining?

hstencil (hstencil), Sunday, 23 January 2005 20:19 (nineteen years ago) link

i mean disagreeing is one thing, but shouting down is another. nobody's trying to do that, yet.

hstencil (hstencil), Sunday, 23 January 2005 20:20 (nineteen years ago) link

I can't believe bugged out is accusing ppl in the U.S. of not knowing what dance music is! You're the one inferring that "dance" only refers to a "specific set of musics and everyone knows what they are." Which is why Perpetua is totally OTM; Americans like dance music, they just never had the rave-as-culture thing the way it is in much of the rest of the world. The way people engaged with this stuff in the U.S. was entirely as "oh another good pop song." In every town across america you will find fans of hip-hop; this was NEVER true of "club" music the way people think of it in Europe.

djdee2005 (djdee2005), Sunday, 23 January 2005 20:21 (nineteen years ago) link

you.

and as for Matthew's post, perhaps the people want rave culture to be more popular in America because they're into it. not because they hate Britney. fairly certain Simon R did actually do a blog entry about Toxic anyway, so good example

Ronan (Ronan), Sunday, 23 January 2005 20:22 (nineteen years ago) link

Oh and you may be able to dance to all music. But some of you are acting as if dancing to all music is the exact same.

Ronan (Ronan), Sunday, 23 January 2005 20:23 (nineteen years ago) link

st. ronan, protector of dance music. amazing.

xpost - it is all the same!

hstencil (hstencil), Sunday, 23 January 2005 20:24 (nineteen years ago) link

poor even for you. stick to making dick jokes with people 20 years younger than you perhaps.

hence some people in the US, flagrantly, on this thread, while knowing what dance music is, can't understand the wider concept of it, that which distinguishes it from hiphop etc.

Ronan (Ronan), Sunday, 23 January 2005 20:25 (nineteen years ago) link

when have i made dick jokes with 9 year olds?

you're so defensive about this, is all i mean ronan. I sincerely doubt that dance music needs defending, it does quite fine on it's own.

hstencil (hstencil), Sunday, 23 January 2005 20:26 (nineteen years ago) link

I'd say the antipathy to Dance music in the States is a continuation of the Disco backlash and it's for one simple reason - too queer.

There seems to be a spate of disingenuousness about the specific meaning of genres round here lately, too.

noodle vague (noodle vague), Sunday, 23 January 2005 20:27 (nineteen years ago) link

*sigh* another argument about the nomenclature of the phrase "dance music" instead of a discussion about the actual music.

MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Sunday, 23 January 2005 20:28 (nineteen years ago) link

interesting article. Havent read something this good about music in a while.

In accords to non electronic dance music, Im still waiting for a Funk revival

Mike D (nullnvoid), Sunday, 23 January 2005 20:28 (nineteen years ago) link

I'd say the antipathy to Dance music in the States is a continuation of the Disco backlash and it's for one simple reason - too queer.

yes, raves didn't take off on a large scale in america because of homophobes, yep, uh huh.

perhaps it's just because, duh, the US and the UK are completely different countries? with different economies, social customs, class traditions, and even property rights? (there's no way that in America circa 1988 you could've commandeered a big farm estate for a rave, like you could in the UK).

hstencil (hstencil), Sunday, 23 January 2005 20:30 (nineteen years ago) link


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