Sea Devils And Die: GeroniMoffat's Doctor Who In The 2010s

as soon as I saw Gatiss I thought "o fuck don't let him be the Brigadier's dad"

Well he was his grandad so you got away with it. I was filled with the crushing inevitability when he said he was from Cromer.

not sure why people are bothered by that, of course he was going to be

Well he was his grandad so you got away with it.

yes, there was a second sentence in my post

Lol embarassing and hacky fan service

disappointed that the bbc1 trailer from months ago had more jodie whittaker than this did

I noticed the lack of a preview of the new doctor's adventures how long is it before she gets a full debut?

i'd been hoping for the spring but then I looked things up yesterday and they haven't even started shooting yet, so autumn at the soonest

got nerdily annoyed when Capaldi referred to Hartbradleynell regenerating

why?

just bcz I hoped they wouldn't use the term, in order to be nerdy 🤓

This was good. I assume the cliffhanger ending has already generated a parade of “jokes” about how women can’t drive

The running joke regarding the First Doctor’s sexism paid dividends though

This was good. I assume the cliffhanger ending has already generated a parade of “jokes” about how women can’t drive

The end was too much like the Matt Smith intro. Hey Doc why not regenerate outside of your TARDIS on land so it doesn't blow up? Then just change the desktop theme later.

Better still why not try and keep the main star of yr flagship tv show tied down for longer than a couple years lol

maybe bcz that’s never how this show has worked?

I assume the cliffhanger ending has already generated a parade of “jokes” about how women can’t drive

I've seen several counterjokes about how setting the TARDIS on fire and then falling out of it is the most Doctory thing you could imagine, regardless of the Doctor's gender.

Hey Doc why not regenerate outside of your TARDIS on land so it doesn't blow up?

tbf they did just cut from the Hartnell->Troughton transformation, in which - eight years before regeneration was invented - the process was explained as something the TARDIS did to save his life

Well and especially after exclaiming “brilliant!” regarding your own reflection

xp

Life depends on change and renewal. [...] I've been renewed. It's part of the TARDIS. Without it, I couldn't survive.

it makes me sulky that we had six Doctor changes in 26 years in the old series, and each one was different; now we've had six in 12 years of the new series, and each one just has the Doctor doing a Christ/scarecrow pose and gold lightning pouring out of his clothes. instead of there being mystery and creativity and "ooh what's going to happen this time*?" it's "oh, this again"

*especially as it's become a standardised three seasons/four years/regeneration at Christmas

should be easter at least ffs

The longevity of the Doctors in the old series was motivated by the fact that they only got a few serials each. Doesn’t Tennant have more episodes under his belt than Baker?

I count 172 half-hours for Baker vs. 39 45-minute episodes for Tennant and 8 60-minute specials (plus the one he did with Smith and Hurt if that counts)

Not by a long shot, no - Baker 173, Tennant 50. Maybe Tennant had more stories, since they were single-ep in his era versus 2-6 eps in Baker's?

sorry mine came from IMDB, not as nuanced.

I liked the 'Brilliant!'

The longevity of the Doctors in the old series was motivated by the fact that they only got a few serials each. Doesn’t Tennant have more episodes under his belt than Baker?

yeah this is just crazy.

Hartnell's longevity was motivated by him being impossible to work with, and he did 29 serials (134 episodes, counting the ones he was on holiday or unwell) in three years.

Troughton's was motivated by him still having a viable career, and being desperately burnt out by the number of episodes they made (21 serials, 119 episodes, 3 years).

Pertwee's was motivated by general burnout, the desire to do other things now the show had made him a star, and the entire production team's disillusionment after Delgado's death and the additional strain of creating, developing and making the entire run of Moonbase 3 in between series of Dr Who - the Letts / Dicks / Pertwee &al squad made way fewer serials in an effort to amortise costs (and Letts still went over budget every year), taking five years to reach 128 episodes in 24 serials.

Baker, T.'s longevity was motivated by the new producer wanting to get rid of him, like he got rid of everything else, and calling Baker's bluff when he made his annual offer to quit / contract negotiating tactic. By the end of that seventh year, Baker had done 42 serials, and shot most of 178 episodes.

Davison also obviously had a thriving career to get back to - he was already known as the young romantic not-lead of a huge international hit, and his first season shut down production midway so that he could shoot that year's season of the sitcom he was now also the lead of - and had been advised by Troughton to only do three years; but specifically left because of the quality of the scripts in his second year. He's always said that he would have done another year if the scripts for his third had existed before he gave notice, especially Androzani. By the end he'd done 19 serials and a 90-minute special, totalling 68 episodes.

Baker, C.'s longevity was motivated by the head of the BBC and the head of drama first cancelling the entire series, then demanding he be sacked or the series be cancelled again. He managed eight serials and 31 episodes in the three calendar years his Doctor appeared onscreen, with gaps of six months between his 1st & 2nd, and 18 months between his 7th & 8th.

McCoy's longevity was motivated by the commissioners actively wanting to starve the show to death so that they wouldn't be forced by public outcry to uncancel it next time they cancelled it - the order was cut to three serials a year, and JNT did some creative accounting to deliver four for the price of three. McCoy intended to stay for at least five years (which would have been easier with the reduced production order), and Cartmel had plotted out a fourth year with Aaronovitch, plus Platt and Briggs.

(just cos I'm curious, and counting by "stories":)

Hartnell era: 29 (134)
Troughton: 21 (119)
Pertwee: 24 (128)
Tom: 43 (178)
Davison: 20 (69 [miscounted above])
Colin: 8 (31)
McCoy: 12 [plus the first 60 NAs, real heads kno the deal] (42)

Eccleston: 10 (13)
Tennant: 37 (47) plus one TV short
Smith: 39 (44) plus a dozen or more shorts, some on TV, including a five-parter and a two-parter
Capaldi: 34 (40) plus two or three shorts

brilliant summary sic

also i agree that the xmas regeneration thing is getting tired. tbh the doctor should be antsy about regenerating every time she turns up in december.

YouTube channel idea: I ask dumb American question and sic answers them

would watch

should be easter at least ffs

right?

this is what works about Time Of The Doctor imo (Smith's finale): he's a sun god, warming and protecting an entire world, but his power and influence and strength have receded, withered away, over the centuries. Just to take this role was a reduction of his universal influence! And like any sun god myth, death and renewal must be part of it; he can only regain power by sacrificing himself, dying, and being reborn. so with this happening over hundreds of years of winter, it's fitting for the Northern winter.

^^ nb that yet again this week's ep forgets that the southern hemisphere is even a thing: the scenes set at the South Pole in December are all shown as taking place at night.

it's fitting for the Northern winter. Christmas

I liked it for a while but by the end I felt like Moffatt thinks we are sadder to see him go than we really are

I am sad to see Capaldi go tho. Even after putting his stupid sunglasses on Hartbradleynell(sic TM)

and sic u are so otm about a) the constant regenerating and b) all the regeneratings being exactly the same. I want some longer runs and more creative ways to go out when they do!

You could've told me Gatiss had written this episode and I'd have thought...yep. Moffat really did leave after Heaven Sent.

I liked it for a while but by the end I felt like Moffatt thinks we are sadder to see him go than we really are

otm, i won’t miss his ego blasting through the fourth wall every 90 seconds

Various fanostications regarding future Doctors’ tenures and regenerations should go on the WHOCHURCH thread imo

I’ve enjoyed Capaldi, but when the closing monologue literally repeats itself is when I was finally past it and just wanted to shout OH COME ON ALREADY but our daughter was sleeping not ten feet away

Seriously though was there nobody in any position to mention that the script said “be kind” on consecutive pages? No thesauruses lying around?

serious lack of script editing all round in this episode. talking heads galore. it might as well have been a radio drama.

except for the two Tardises and the recreated Tenth Planet scenes and the Whithouse crater and the alien tower and the other alien tower and Kaled mutant facehuggers and another!!! new 60s control room and shimmery glass ladies and two trenches full of actors in period war uniforms etc etc

Yeah, I’m not sure how many inches that pendulum can swing before it’s in “that was ridiculous, two old men running and jumping all over the place” territory

I liked it for a while but by the end I felt like Moffatt thinks we are sadder to see him go than we really are

nah this isn't abt Moffat or his ego, it's the opposite: End Of Time was the most popular story in all of nu-Who, so despite it suuuuucking, Moffat follows what was RTD's crowd-pleasing set-up both times.

remember that Moffat was exhausted and wrote his intended final episodes almost three (3!!!) years ago: Heaven Sent / Hell Bent / Husbands were produced as his finale, down to the golden The End being written onscreen. then he got begged back for another year until Chinballs was ready, had to take a year to recover, but gave us the amazing Capaldi / Bill pairing... and then had to come back AGAIN to bump the regeneration and add on a Christmas special he hadn't planned on. The ending was nine damp squibs fizzling in a row, but it's not because he thought that either the audience or himself wanted more of him.

obv I've said that before, new script editor needed in my production office

did you have moff round for tea or something

hahahaha

opinions in the short para, public facts in the other

grand moff larkin’