The Lysergic Acid Diethylamidiotic Joe Biden & Sarah Palin VP Presidential Debate thread in the 2 zero zero 8 (2008 party over oops)

hopefully dogers v. cubs is done before this starts!!!

Then there's this -- but this would be next week, more's the pity:

http://www.themudflats.net/2008/09/30/troopergate-witness-flips-like-a-pancake/

Why is there no Dan Lacey - Palin with Pancake picture in the comments to that yet?

Main Street, featuring McCain's long-lost 8th house, or "castle" as it is sometimes known.

You folks are really underestimating Joe's ability to come off like an asshole.

The ballgame is at 9:30 ET, gr80.

oh soooo many Dems are going to worry if Palin isn't a disaster after the debate. come on.

Aside from breaking into glossolalia or audibly farting on stage, what on earth could she possibly do for our cowardly media to do anything other than say she "exceeded expectations" after the debate?

oh noes VP debate moderator is biased:

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=76645

I don't think the issue is exceeding expectations anymore.

Yeah, I have an ominous feeling that the left blogosphere and skeptical mainstream media have already been high-fiving each other about how awful she's going to be without considering that precisely what they hate about her is what those who like her find charming- everyone's hastily assuming that if she's an idiot this can only help the Dem side. But if Biden is belligerent and Palin never cracks her "everymom" mask, it could solidify the undecideds against the Dem ticket. Dems have a history of seeming "smug" and losing people even as they "win" debates, and this one is awfully easy to win in the wrong way.

Most of the newspapers have lead with warnings already, so I think the Dems got the message.

I was about to say, it's not that there's no talk about it!

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2008/images/10/01/gall.debateprep.cnn.jpg

Apparently she was in 23 debates in the Alaskan election and went on to win so she can't be that bad at it. If she makes no major gaffes there will be "Palin Does Surprisingly Well" headlines next day and it will be a "win" for her. But in the end it won't make any difference since VP debates don't really matter. The most famous quip from a VP debate is the "You're no Jack Kennedy" one, and yet Bush/Quayle went on to win.

Apparently she was in 23 debates in the Alaskan election and went on to win so she can't be that bad at it.

Mmmm, there's an awful lot of assumptions to unpack there.

Well, all I'm suggesting is that she's used to the format and did well enough in it not to ruin her chances of winning a state election. At this point, she only has to be OK for it to be a "win".

A good read is here:

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-palindebate1-2008oct01,0,113995.story

god what a jerk:

Palin saved her most devastating riposte for the final question of the debate, when Persily asked the three candidates whether they would hire their opponents for a state job.

Knowles and Halcro offered halting jokes. But when it was Palin's turn, she pounced.

Smiling at Halcro, who recited reams of statistics by rote, Palin observed that the businessman "would make the most awesome statistician the state could ever look for."

As the debate audience laughed, Palin pivoted to Knowles, who had owned an Anchorage restaurant. "Do they need a chef down in Juneau?" Palin asked, smiling as she twisted the verbal knife. "I know Mr. Knowles is really good at that."

What that tells me is that if she tried that approach against Biden -- and there's no reason why not, really -- then it's open season in return. Which could have the effect of it being a draw.

totally get where you're coming from, dr drew, but speaking for myself, while i expect biden to win handily, i'm really just looking forward to the debate for pure entertainment value (secretly expecting the holy spirit to descend upon sarah palin to give her the gift of tongues). It's a long debate and there's plenty of time for both biden and palin to say some really dumb shit, fucking blabbermouths they both are -- and I think that while Biden will be able to point out palin's gaffes, Palin simply won't be able to do the same in return.

And while yes, palin's had some debate experience, she's never debated in front of a national audience -- and the momentary reaction to the debate doesn't matter quite as much as the days following, the aftermath during which everything she said will be parsed and researched and her worst moments will be replayed ad nauseam

it will be interesting to compare palin's debate performance with those couric interviews. everything i've read suggests that "palin is not as bad as you think she is" at debating and don't underestimate her, etc. etc. But i don't have to tell y'all that goddamn she looks like a deer in headlights in those Couric interviews. so what's the variable between a debate and an interview?

I'd like to see Joe Biden on TV!

Should we place odds on her making some "LOL old/senator when i was in 2nd grade" joeks?

this Jay Nordliger douche is making The Corner fantastic reading lately:

Years ago, some Bolshi Democrat — I think it was Ron Dellums — was rising to some important committee position. And Henry Hyde was asked, by some righty (no doubt), “Don’t you think he’s a security risk?” And Hyde answered blithely, “No more than any other Democrat.” (I am paraphrasing — but am very close.)

McCarthyite? Funny? Resigned?

Anyway . . . I’ve thought of Hyde’s remark this morning. People say, “Well, isn’t Gwen Ifill pro-Obama?” And the answer is: “If she is, is she more so than any other suitable MSM big?”

At any rate — no pouting or fretting. Play on

Exceeding expectations won't be good enough for the liberal media elite when expectations are this low. She's running for de facto president, not chair of the PTA.

the tricky thing with Palin is that she is simultaneously intentionally avoiding answering questions with any specifics to avoid making mistakes (or letting on what a fundie nutjob she is/leaving the widest possible room for fundie nutjobs to be sure she's one of them) and helplessly not getting the substance of issues she knows or cares nothing about, and at the margin it's a little tough to figure out which is which

But i don't have to tell y'all that goddamn she looks like a deer in headlights in those Couric interviews.

She does, but check out the Alaska debates on YouTube. She doesn't seem nearly as bad. I doubt if the Couric interview is a good measure of her debating abilities.

the best-case scenario in my mind is biden restraining himself, answering questions genially and calmly, and letting palin zing away without having anything substantive to say

She does, but check out the Alaska debates on YouTube. She doesn't seem nearly as bad

the issues, personalities and audience in Alaska present a far lower bar

the best-case scenario in my mind is biden restraining himself, answering questions genially and calmly, and letting palin zing away without having anything substantive to say

You realize that this scenario is actually a win for Palin, right?

I think the theory there, Dan, is that Palin won't be able to answer basic questions and will hang herself.

But the practice is that the more you allow her to not actually answer questions, the better she comes across.

I think Biden needs to 1) avoid any obvious gaffes and 2) avoid coming off overly aggressive/dismissive of Palin. If he does those two things he can't lose and at this point that's all they need.

I kind of want Biden to keep being super Biden-y, gaffes and all; I don't think Palin is used to dealing with people anywhere near as comfortable in that zone of affable approachable batshittery as she is and the reaction to someone encroaching on what should be her turf has great potential to throw her off her game (IMO).

If nothing else, a more entertaining debate than Bush/Ferraro 1984, I'm sure.

I mainly just think he needs to not get overly combative with Palin. Palin will set her own traps and step in them. Biden just needs to look competent.

did anyone catch 41 and Gerry Ferraro on "The Today Show" this morning?

I actually think it will be fairly dull, because they are both going to try to play it safe and Palin's responses should be scripted enough to avoid the kind of nonsense she spewed during the Couric/Gibson interviews. If there are any questions she doesn't have a script for though, it could get mighty entertaining, but that'll only be for a second or two before she pulls the question back around to something she can talk to.

That said I'm still going to watch just on the off chance of hilarity.

did anyone catch 41 and Gerry Ferraro on "The Today Show" this morning?

I saw parts of it; I was running late for work. Gerry is still kind of mad about Hillary.

Joe Kennedy, OTOH, remains kind of awesome in a crazy drunk uncle way.

Another piece from Halcro:

http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/1001/p09s01-coop.html

Dude's been busy. Rightfully so, though.

Biden needs to look Vice-Presidential, with a good dose of geniality and some memorable righteous anger about the economy thrown in

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_IMWFWUgeFg4/SLAzGb6Tn1I/AAAAAAAAAQc/OjplkS1pOkI/s1600-h/biden+done.jpg

so basically doing nabisco's biden-no-gaffes raindance - pretending to be Jamie Noble

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f308/sotoalf/bidendone.jpg

Debate preview:

Palin: [generic non-answer]
Biden: Was I the only one listening? I thought it reeked!
Palin: No, I believe that's your old man smell lol!!!!!!!!alaska

btw I expect Palin to "win"

u guys pailin is totally gonna make some awesome blunders - GET PSYCHED!

"what do you talk about when you have nothing to say?" = a good line

battle of blunderdome

you guys i'm sooooo worried that the dems are gonna go at this with total hubris (which is sooo them in this election!) and not pay any attention to the judgment of informed people, while palin will impress people by gaining steam over an hour even though she can't seem to say three words without scaring away independent voters. Based on the last month, I have SO MUCH MORE FAITH in the McCain/Palin campaign playing this smartly than the dems.