the most promising young american author is TAO LIN

get angry about slavery and colonial wars, deej. not about Homer, Horace and Virgil.

i lol'd mightily at this last night

how about "defend the indefensible: tao lin"

I oppose the Stalinist/Pitchforkian tendency on this board to go back and change thread titles.

I don’t care about the thread title actually changing but I agree that a more interesting conversation would probably come from that prompt

But the fact that it had the former & not latter title says a lot !

https://mic.com/articles/186533/the-art-vs-artist-debate-should-end-with-2017?curator=MediaREDEF#.gFGKqFF1u

despite the fact that this essay doesn't really say anything, i find myself mostly agreeing with it

I oppose the Stalinist/Pitchforkian tendency on this board to go back and change thread titles.

― New Jersey (treeship 2), Sunday, December 3, 2017 12:33 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah i'm not sure how i feel about it, i finally remembered which thread title was changed recently: "Crystal Castles (rule)" or something. I don't have any investment in CC but understand why some people would want to change that thread title. i mean, thread titles don't get changed very often afaik. with this thread, i actually think a defend the indefensible is more fitting and would've been in 2013.

I don’t care about the thread title actually changing but I agree that a more interesting conversation would probably come from that prompt

― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Sunday, December 3, 2017 2:52 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

agreed

But the fact that it had the former & not latter title says a lot !

― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Sunday, December 3, 2017 2:53 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Not sure what you mean. Again this was 4 years ago, I was psyched on Taipei, not much thought went into the thread title, not a fraction of the angst over it itt atm

Thought experiment: If it is agreed that henceforth works of art shall be judged and valued according to how we judge and value the artist who made them, how are we going to know what to think about anonymous art, or art created by people like Shakespeare, whose name we know, but about whose life we know only a few unrevealing fragments and who is regularly argued not to have written the works to which his name is attached?

I oppose the Stalinist/Pitchforkian tendency on this board to go back and change thread titles.

of all the things in this world to give a flying fuck about

we have always been at war with simon h-er

Good lord of all the line readings to take seriously ffs

lot of literal fucks being given/expressed over a throwaway treezy comment, just saying

anyway changing the title seems pointless, pretty sure people understand that the thread is about tao lin, which includes his work, personal life, dumb beliefs, etc

rate the following ideologies: stalinism, pitchforkism

order as in post imo

anyway. lol:

I've lost ~500 followers since tweeting my vaccine-info email to my brother

— Tao Lin (@tao_lin) December 2, 2017

haha

When I need medical advice, I always get it from my local hipster novelist

Losing 500 followers is nothing like the sting of getting dropped from Vintage, just you wait kid.

He posted a pic of the galley for Trip on his IG. Review copies go out 1/1.

I’m surprised it was only 500.

scientific accuracy not his forte

i liked the working title Beyond Existentialism, Trip is bleeghh

I wonder if vintage would send me a galley for old time’s sake because I reviewed Taipei for a journal that has since shut down.

To the right audience, I feel I could do 9/11-related stand-up comedy

— Tao Lin (@tao_lin) January 6, 2018

lmao

He isn’t good and his time is over

Taipei had like three interesting paragraphs though

nah im psyched for these next 2 books

the "mystical turn" he seems to have made is interesting but also super troubling

Go on

Lin’s turn toward psychedelia, mysticism, and conspiracy theories is obviously a performance, but I think it’s also “real.” He’s living out a false solution for the philosophical and spiritual dead end he conjured in Taipei. Like, the “self” in that book was a prison. Now he’s decided that it was this way for social and political reasons, I guess. The original title of his upcoming book was “Leave Society.” It’s all kind of predictable — he turns from existentialism to the most narcissistic form of politics, an obsession with liberating himself from his own so-called false consciousness, and doing so in part by obsessively regulating his own body, purging himself of “toxins.” If this helps him to stay alive then I guess it is good but it seems like it will be shallow fodder for a novel.

I still think Taipei is an extraordinary book—an uncompromising document of our cultural moment. But everyone who’s mentioned that this is a bad person we are talking about is righ. I feel very weird recommending Taipei to people nowadays even though it’s an important book to me.

― treeship 2, Sunday, November 26, 2017 8:35 PM (one month ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

damn treeship there is some complicated algebra in that post. eating healthy & quitting hard/prescription drugs is the most narcissistic form of politics? "so-called false consciousness"... that's what Taipei was all about. a complete alienation and disconnection from one's body and environment. shallow fodder? we have no idea what Leave Society will be about.

tl;dr, the malaise depicted in taipei was something that was socially relevant. it was about living a life without expectations, adrift from the social norms that used to give at least a gloss of meaning to experience (his parents were on a different continent, he was only a "writer" by default, seeming to have no serious passion for his creative work, etc.) i think the "solution" he is trying to move toward -- you know, 'rejecting society,' freeing one's mind with psychedelics -- is false and dangerous. despair curdling into paranoia.

i mean, i am going to read the book, but i don't think terrence mckenna has the answers, and i think his eagerness to spread stuff like 9/11 conspiracy theories, anti-vaccine stuff, is evidence of a mind that is just kind of railing against the world in all directions.

as an artist, he isn't required to propose a "way out" of the "dead end" of his novel, but he is kind of trying to do that, and in a way that doesn't seem super hopeful.

I don't know about that... he's just living & eating in a more healthy way. Whether it's as socially relevant is immaterial to me. I'd rather him stay alive and maybe write more mediocre work than keep burrowing into pills and hard drugs and becoming Bret Easton Ellis. I don't know how you can find what he's doing "dangerous" or especially "false" - what's your opinion of Terrence McKenna? I don't think he has all the answers either but he wasn't a charlatan. Tao seems happier now, and not really "pushy" w/r/t/ how other people should be.

what he is doing isn't actually dangerous. but i don't think organic foods and psychedelics are enough to break through the knot of meaninglessness that has always been his subject. i think that would require some sort of ethical orientation toward the world based on responsibility (what "existentialism" said, which his original title said he moved "beyond"), not the liberation of consciousness through drugs.

i don't have answers either i just am skeptical of new age "free your mind" stuff, especially when it has to do with conspiracies

I would argue against spreading anti-vax beliefs and other pseudoscience is in fact dangerous

xp also i don't want him to keep doing drugs for the sake of "authenticity." i, boringly, hate all drugs.

err: argue against....being not dangerous

no, you're right. i think 9/11 conspiracy stuff is "dangerous" too in the vague sense that it's putting more nonsense and confusion into the public sphere. but i don't think tao lin has a following -- he's becoming like one of these new age contrarians.

anti-vax stuff is easily one of the most dangerous conspiracy theories in existence. 9/11 nonsense is comparatively harmless unless you're stuck talking to one of those ppl at a party or something.

i don't think it does much good for the civic health of society tho

that's true, but but i sort of see it as coming from a different place than anti-vax conspiracies. tbh i've always felt it was kind of an inevitable response to bush and cheney's mendacious use of their own 9/11 conspiracy theory (that saddam was involved) to start a war. it's misguided but i don't really hear truther talk much anymore, except on twitter (where you can find p much every kind of talk going on at all times).

I disagree about 9/11 conspiracy theories. 1) it's a form of coping, people trying to 'figure out' something beyond comprehension, and 2) im not a truther but do you believe 100% of the official story? finding mohammad atta's passport on the **street**!! but not the plane's black box?? one example... mostly harmless, unlike anti-vax or pizzagate. to say 9/11 discussion is bad for civic health of society is completely wrong imo, and scares me. it's a valid topic of discussion. why that and not JFK? or pick yr poison...

jfk and 9/11 conspiracy theories are both significant drains on the US GDP imo

smart people could be doing much better things with their time, like inventing whatever the pretzel version of the epi-baguette is

Insane hyperbole, I mean come on... Xbox is a drain on the GDP.

i don't like that argument. i support unprofitable activities if they are personally enriching.

right. like 9/11 speculation

flappy i really just mean the "jet fuel can't melt steel beams" crowd, or the ppl who think that the towers were vaporized from space or something. i think there are most likely legitimate issues w/ the 9/11 commission report (the example you note does sound strange to me, and i've read accounts of cheney's actions that day that seem weird) but the noise of the truthers has sort of made it difficult to look at w/o looking like an idiot, which has probably discouraged serious ppl from paying attention. which is a problem!

jfk is a different story tho, fuck the warren commission and everything else allen dulles ever got his evil mitts on.

Right, also we're getting to the point where kids born after 9/11 are making jet fuel can't melt steel beams jokes & arguments. I have friends that were just barely too young to have any memory of the day, which is insane to me. So the silliness of the meme blots out serious consideration. Noise of the truthers is not hard to block out, although I agree bringing it up in casual conversation is fucking stupid. it's weird, JFK hasn't been memed in the same way, that's the only conspiracy theory that's acceptable to believe in the mainstream in America.