the most promising young american author is TAO LIN

More historical forces playing out:

Wow, editors rejected @leonardchang's novel because his Korean-American characters "didn't act Asian enough" https://t.co/6PyPiKR3AK pic.twitter.com/RJBRUhIymK

— brandon sheffield (@necrosofty) November 7, 2017

Aforementioned Claire Vaye Watkins piece: http://tinhouse.com/on-pandering/

Nb I thought this was righteous when I first read it, but I gather it garnered some controversy. It’s worth saying that by virtue of being a white woman with a certain pedigree, Watkins is placed differently vis a vis the literary world than a Southern black woman would be, for example. I still think the thing she is describing here is real and worth reckoning with.

editors reject books for lots of stupid reasons. that editor's reasoning was especially stupid and racist. someday we will have only smart, compassionate, talented editors. we will all be much happier then.

If the argument is that tao lin is sucking up the oxygen that could have been spared for more worthy writers, then comparing him against them would make it pretty clear if that was the case, no? but if the other candidate for most promising young american author is just john grisham, then...

I'm super into this fwiw (although it certainly made a lot of people mad, it looks like):

Dear agents, please stop sending inquiries to Tyrant. We no longer consider agented writers. Writers w/agents: feel free to send, just know you have to drop your agent if we want to sign you. Thanks,
Tyrant staff

— New York Tyrant/Tyrant Books (@tyrantbooks) November 22, 2017

Why are you into that? (Genuine question?)

in the eyes of society, yes, that's exactly who his competition was.

the number of readers who care about 'what is art vs. what is craft' or the aesthetics of literature, or who will be taught in college curricula fifty years from now, makes up a vanishingly small number compared to people who simply want to read a 'good' book - by which they simply mean a book they enjoy.

I read a lot in what you would no doubt classify as "the canon", including lots of books written more than three centuries ago, but I class myself right along with those grisham readers, in that all I am seeking is enjoyment, in the form of a continued interest from start to finish.

― A is for (Aimless), Wednesday, November 29, 2017 6:41 PM (six minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this is not why tao lin became well known! he wasn't selling beach reading dude, this is a total misrepresentation of the power structures that built him

I actually think this is a cool idea to potentially get more unheard voices published that wouldn't otherwise be published but the guy that runs NY Tyrant is a huge cokehead and I can't trust anyone on cocaine

tao lin got famous by sticker bombing NYC and annoying the shit out of Gawker writers. the first time i heard of him was when i passed by one of his books in a suburban barnes & noble in early 2007

My understanding is that part of the reason Tyrant made this move is the owner resents the fallout of his harassment of a female writer. She was represented by an agent who renegotiated her contract. It seems like a p transparent way for an unprincipled publisher to exploit inexperienced writers?

are you talking about Darcie? yeah i saw some of that scanning twitter looking for that tweet, i need to read more about it, i think they both tend to be full of shit (tho i enjoyed her book) so it's hard to tell what's what

Yes, I am talking about her.

I just saw the reaction to it right now, wasn't aware of all the dross and context associated with it when i saw it last week

My understanding is that a writer unrepresented by an agent is in grave danger of being cheated by a publisher, unless she understands the details of the law and contracts exceptionally well.

also sorry not sorry 2 b a sap; just taught Baldwin’s “notes of a native son” to my seniors and in the course of discussion I told them he had written, “I want to be an honest man and a good writer.” seems obliquely relevant.

also choked me up a little. ambushed by unexpected emotion.

one insane thing about the marvel ed in chief being exposed as having written under the penname 'akira yoshida' was when the execs said they liked him bc they were blown away having found a japanese writer who knew how to write for 'western audience'

tyrant dude is def full of shit

or rather, horseshoe otm

but if the other candidate for most promising young american author is just john grisham, then...

― Philip Nunez,

I met John Grisham a few weeks ago and he was extremely nice.

Just friendly, genuine, and normal. I’ve found that many writers are like this and it does make me feel annoyed with the ones who are not.

Like tao lin, who is passive aggressive and manipulative. Defending the tyrant guy is clearly bullshit. I think it’s impossible to mount a defense of tao lin based on what e says or does — it’s the books themselves that are interesting

its unpacking the word 'interesting' that is needed from tao lin proponents, imo

instead of being like, it has this general worthiness that should be appreciated

I actually think this is a cool idea to potentially get more unheard voices published that wouldn't otherwise be published but the guy that runs NY Tyrant is a huge cokehead and I can't trust anyone on cocaine

this post sounds like it was written on cocaine

If you've ever had to wade through a slush pile you might think it less of a cool idea. The ratio of unpublishable to publishable is about 1000:1

The ratio of unpublishable to publishable is about 1000:1

This makes you complicit in the great "we control the canon" conspiracy. It would be even worse if you identify as a dead white man.

this is not why tao lin became well known!

I see you are under the impression that tao lin became well known.

well known enough for an ilx thread? your arguments are embarrassing and bad

sorry for resorting to the objective lol but

This makes you complicit in the great "we control the canon" conspiracy. It would be even worse if you identify as a dead white man.

― A is for (Aimless), Wednesday, November 29, 2017 9:32 PM (fifty-two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

it makes me angry how stupid this post is. like ffs

the sins of dead white men are many and great, beside which I count their setting up canons of literature they admired as being on the order of pinching the cheeks of children as a misguided gesture of fondness. get angry about slavery and colonial wars, deej. not about Homer, Horace and Virgil.

your arguments are embarrassing and bad

which is only to say that they do not sway you, while phrasing it in a bad and embarrassing way.

lol yeah definitely don't get mad about the systematic exclusion of non-euro voices from the academic/literary canon. who needs em?

You are giving that academic/literary canon far more power than it ever had in real life. It is mostly an illusion. You seem to accept that this is a massive injustice, rather than a middling minor one. The prestige of the canon you're so mad about has been waning as fast as Latin classes in high school.

At this moment in history you have rapid access to a vast wealth of non-euro voices, more than you could read in the decades left to you. Bitching because kiddies aren't being spoon fed them accomplishes nothing. Just go read them if you want to. You are free to browse the pastures of literature as whim or interest guides you, and all those kiddies have the internet, and they can wander hither and thither, too, if you can pry them away from the porn.

the era of infinite accessibility means cultural gatekeepers matter more, not less, and academic/literary canons are no longer so easily separable from internet/twitter/porn culture, it seems.

its unpacking the word 'interesting' that is needed from tao lin proponents, imo

instead of being like, it has this general worthiness that should be appreciated

― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Wednesday, November 29, 2017 9:10 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

why

no one owes you anything

this isn't a tribunal

there are no "art crimes"

and i despise cocaine and cokeheads

Feel free not to post in the thread for an author whose work other people like

i just saw 20 minutes of bad mom's xmas and disagree heartily that there are no art crimes.

why

no one owes you anything

this isn't a tribunal

there are no "art crimes"

and i despise cocaine and cokeheads

― flappy bird, Wednesday, November 29, 2017 11:39 PM (twelve minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i meant if they want this conversation to extend past 'well hes a shithead so i dont care about him'

You are giving that academic/literary canon far more power than it ever had in real life. It is mostly an illusion. You seem to accept that this is a massive injustice, rather than a middling minor one. The prestige of the canon you're so mad about has been waning as fast as Latin classes in high school.

At this moment in history you have rapid access to a vast wealth of non-euro voices, more than you could read in the decades left to you. Bitching because kiddies aren't being spoon fed them accomplishes nothing. Just go read them if you want to. You are free to browse the pastures of literature as whim or interest guides you, and all those kiddies have the internet, and they can wander hither and thither, too, if you can pry them away from the porn.

― A is for (Aimless), Wednesday, November 29, 2017 10:53 PM (fifty-nine minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

are you really this bad at comprehending the argument in front of you? this isnt just about the literary canon, its about every fucking thing

I don't feel strongly enough about Tao Lin or Taipei anymore to unpack why I find it interesting, beyond what I've already said here recently and what I probably said 4 years ago

Who would be Tao Lin's successor?

OTTESSA MOSHFEGH

I don't feel strongly enough about Tao Lin or Taipei anymore to unpack why I find it interesting, beyond what I've already said here recently and what I probably said 4 years ago

― flappy bird, Wednesday, November 29, 2017 11:55 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

ok then what are you even arguing about?

Who would be Tao Lin's successor?

― Philip Nunez, Thursday, November 30, 2017 12:59 AM (nine minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

OTTESSA MOSHFEGH

― flappy bird, Thursday, November 30, 2017 1:00 AM (seven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

dude wtf

why u slime otessa like that

I don't feel strongly enough about Tao Lin or Taipei anymore to unpack why I find it interesting, beyond what I've already said here recently and what I probably said 4 years ago

― flappy bird, Wednesday, November 29, 2017 11:55 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

ok then what are you even arguing about?

― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Wednesday, November 29, 2017 11:04 PM (five minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

https://youtu.be/V_3JMIF5rVI?t=18m7s

ok then what are you even arguing about?

― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Thursday, November 30, 2017 1:04 AM (five minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

haha i'm not arguing anything! i didnt bump the thread, we veered into a general discussion about art and if it is inextricable from its creator, and then briefly back to Taipei

flopson do you not like Ottessa Moshfegh?

xp ah, no i only meant she's the most promising young american author at the moment imo

ok then what are you even arguing about?

― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Thursday, 30 November 2017 06:04 (two hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Dude