Best track on DOG MAN STAR

in the states you used to have to pay union overtime if you went over 3 hours in the studio and a LOT of albums in the 50's and 60's were made here in under 3 hours. or, at best, they might go in the next day and do another 3 hour session. so, 6 hours total. so many classic jazz albums made in the time it takes to watch a michael bay movie.

3h ? man, it's the time it takes to tune a drumkit now ! (to paraphrase someone, maybe it was McCartney, I'm not sure...)

I generally find it difficult to be into things that don't exist either.

I'm guessing the reason that bands don't put stuff out at the same rate as they used to is they're conscious of not burning themselves out, and also record companies wanting to squeeze as much as they can out of a release.

Or maybe fewer/different drugs? I'm struck by how so many of those streaks of productivity, from Beatles to Elvis Costello, coincide with rampant amphetamine use.

there's just a completely different attitude toward the whole thing now. everything is carefully prepared and stuff. knocking out one album after the other is for "garage bands"

lawrence music

what is this, scott?

i just meant denim. which is music made by lawrence. as only he knows how to make it.

Drive-By Truckers have released 11 mostly excellent records since 1998, some of them doubles, some of them back to back, all while touring non-stop and shedding members. That's a pretty great run!

the only reason i think of denim in connection with britpop is because my copy of denim on ice has a *on tour with pulp* sticker on it.

such a great album. this/first album/stay together 12 inch is better than most bands will ever do. our 1992-1994 beats your entire 90's. should be their motto. okay, that's a dumb motto. but it's true.

― scott seward, Wednesday, October 18, 2017 10:07 AM (four hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

truth!

after a pleasant relisten to one of the most listened albums of my life I think poll winner is ok legit

I never listened to Suede at the time (I found "Metal Mickey" a super annoying single & so tuned them out) but I've been listening to this album since the weekend & am obsessed with "New Generation". one of those verses >> chorus songs but really it's the chug-chug-chug almost Sterling Morrison guitar thing that's got me hooked (that maybe no one else hears, I dunno)

b-but that chorus is sublime!

it's great but the verses are that much greater! can't stop listening

'New Generation' is incredible... the only problem I have with it is that it's one of the tracks on that which gives a lot of weight to Bernard Butler's complaints about the production - there's far too much reverb and it's badly EQ'd. It sounds like a mess, but the song still comes through.

the excess reverb is extremely good, thank god the album sounds the way it does

one trick they do well here is synchronizing violent acoustic strums with snare hits. so awesome.

see "we are the kings" verse e.g.

suede seem like a low-key 90's equivalent of xtc - an english rock band that all of ilx likes, somehow

PIGS lawl

well, because they're amazing, obv, but ykwim

i don't really like xtc... i like "dear god"

i would definitely kick it with andy patridge, he seems like a fun dude

It sounds great on some tracks, but not others. It sounds immense on 'Introducing the Band', but sucks on 'New Generation' ... There's moments I think that Butler had a point, but having heard his own productions I'm not convinced it would have been the album it is if he'd produced it. It would have been too far in the other direction - far too clean.

In other words, I think the sound of the album is suitable for it but it's far from flawless.

This remains my favorite album of 1994.

Ooh, I dunno... that was a strong year!

exactly!

even within the confines of britpop, Parklife feels like twice the album. and i lurv Suede

I think the debut is their best album nowadays, but this is still really good

Well, since Britpop didn't exist, I'm not sure what those confines are. Maybe you mean "even in '90s UK guitar music terms" ...

I'm guessing the reason that bands don't put stuff out at the same rate as they used to is they're conscious of not burning themselves out, and also record companies wanting to squeeze as much as they can out of a release.

Yeah, certainly but still, I find it very annoying and weird for the artists.
As someone who makes music, my experience is that there are times when you have a rush in creativity and it's very precious and rare so you should go with the momentum and produce as many things as you can because that won't last forever.
And seeing young bands/artists spend like 4 years between albums seems crazy and a huge waste to me. And it's worse when it's between their debut and follow up.
I find it even harder to understand nowadays when you can upload and share new stuff so easily...
Anyway.

As for DMS, this thread reminded me I have a rare (I think ?) and great track by track interview/comments with all the members (including BB) + E. Buller that was done circa the remastered box.
It's a jpeg file so I don't think I can post it here but tell me if anyone's interested, I can send it.

sounds good, ilxmail if you can!

It sounds great on some tracks, but not others. It sounds immense on 'Introducing the Band', but sucks on 'New Generation' ... There's moments I think that Butler had a point, but having heard his own productions I'm not convinced it would have been the album it is if he'd produced it. It would have been too far in the other direction - far too clean.

v otm

fwiw, if you compare with the production on his McAlmont&Butler stuff, right after, it's quite different and not sure it would have worked with DMS material, indeed !

ok Niels !
Not sure how it works, though.

As for the production/arrangements issues between Butler and the others, I also think they were right in editing "The Wild Ones" and change the ending.
Butler's version with the jam at the end is not bad but it's not as good as the final cut.

AIXTC, works fine for exchanging contact info, but nm my email is kern.cooper at gmail

OK, sent !

Yeah, certainly but still, I find it very annoying and weird for the artists.
As someone who makes music, my experience is that there are times when you have a rush in creativity and it's very precious and rare so you should go with the momentum and produce as many things as you can because that won't last forever.
And seeing young bands/artists spend like 4 years between albums seems crazy and a huge waste to me. And it's worse when it's between their debut and follow up.
I find it even harder to understand nowadays when you can upload and share new stuff so easily...
Anyway.

― AlXTC from Paris, Thursday, October 19, 2017 9:53 AM (two hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I think it's largely to do with the way the music biz has changed in the last 25 years.

For a lot of people who play in bands nowawadays, being in a band is not their only job. Even lots of well established acts work a day job in between gigs/albums because unless you're a huge marquee name the industry doesn't pay like it used to, and that all impacts on the amount of time you are going to have to write songs or be in the studio. For the UK at least, gone are the days when bands could just live on the dole when things got quiet.

This is also I think why a musical career(and the arts in general) can often feel like the domain of the privileged, because it seems like only those who were already pretty well off survive long enough to get big, yer Mumford & Sons and the like.

Sure for smaller acts but even fairly big acts (Vampire Weekend, Haim, Grimes, to name a few I have in mind right now) take years between albums !

those track by track notes may be where Dan Bejar read about the original title for The Wild Ones:

BA: It used to be called 'Ken', I think.

BB: That's right.

BA: Which I think was the name of the guitar tech we had.

BB: Ken was the guy who was going to be me in Suede. Basically two people applied to the advert. The first guy had come along and he told you that you'd sound better if you sounded more like Led Zeppelin.

BA: I don't even remember this.

BB: Yeah, and his name was Ken. It stuck in my mind: I know what Ken looks like and what he was like, and what he had to do. He's always been at the back of my mind.

I guess ultimately the story of DMS is quite sad since it's a (band) breakup record and Butler never got to play those songs live

But at the same time it wasn't sad at all because the equally excellent Richard Oakes arrived and then 'Together' and 'Bentswood Boys' were written and then Coming Up, which turned out to be their biggest selling album worldwide.

yeah, I agree that it's very sad for Butler (not necessarily for the rest of the band, as you mention).
He was on fire creatively and this was basically his chef d'oeuvre (he made great things afterward but it was never the same level again).
And he never got to finish it nor play it and present if to the world.
Psychologically, this must have been horrible for an artist.

As we all know, he didn't help himself by alienating himself from the rest of the band in numerous ways. Doing interviews slagging off other band members when you're in the middle of making a record is not the best thing to do.

Psychologically, it doesn't seem like Suede was healthy for him.

Isn't there some TV clip of the band shortly before his departure where he just clearly does not gaf?

Sure, the responsibility of the break up is certainly shared by all members of the band and especially BB and BA.
So even if he made some mistakes that doesn't make it less sad for him.