To Screen or Not to Screen: Birth of a Nation gets the boot

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http://vu.morrissey-solo.com/moz/perez/misc/strokes.jpg

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 18:33 (nineteen years ago) link

clearly i don't watch enough tv!

― g--ff (gcannon), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 18:35 (nineteen years ago) link

i've been on an all-lifetime diet lately

― g--ff (gcannon), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 18:35 (nineteen years ago) link

http://www.kompaktkiste.de/cd/tresor/tresor155.jpg

― TOMBOT, Tuesday, 10 August 2004 18:36 (nineteen years ago) link

sorry Ned.

You're not sorry at all, you meanie. *cries*

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 18:42 (nineteen years ago) link

yeah, you're right.

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 18:42 (nineteen years ago) link

John Zorn & friends accompanying silent Joseph Cornell films at Anthology Film Archives last year was the shit. It wasn't electronica though, so perhaps this isn't relevant.

― o. nate (onate), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 18:43 (nineteen years ago) link

i really like the silence accompanying joseph cornell films. i've become a fan of showing silent films silent, actually. but it takes some getting used to.

jos. cornell: those are some of my favorite films in the world (esp. "mulberry st." and "centuries of june"). though some of them had soundtracks, of old calypso records IIRC.

stan brakhage's widow has voiced concern about bands like sonic youth performing to her husband's films. she's not making any NAACP-like effort to stop it from happening (though i guess technically it is kinda illegal), but she insists that her husband wanted his films to be shown silent.*

* with the exceptions of his few films w/soundtracks, and those explicitly made for particular musicians to accompany.

― |a|m|t|r|s|t| (amateurist), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 18:46 (nineteen years ago) link

though some of them had soundtracks, of old calypso records IIRC

That's true. They mentioned that in the show. I think Zorn took some inspiration from those original soundtracks, but basically took them in a completely different direction.

― o. nate (onate), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 18:48 (nineteen years ago) link

oh and i know some rudy burkhardt films (burkhardt was the guy who actually shot/edited a bunch of those "cornell" films) used stuff like the moonlight sonata and trois gymnopedies as soundtracks. which has since become a dreadful cliche.

― |a|m|t|r|s|t| (amateurist), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 18:49 (nineteen years ago) link

call me rockist but i hate it when they do new soundtracks for SOUND films like dracula

― s1ocki (slutsky), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 19:59 (nineteen years ago) link

i can't think of another example though.

― |a|m|t|r|s|t| (amateurist), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 21:01 (nineteen years ago) link

gish is so not hot.
she is so.
*raspberry*

― AaronHz (AaronHz), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 21:05 (nineteen years ago) link

the thought that anyone would want to watch this outside of a film as history class baffles me.

i presume you have seen it then? most people haven't. if you hadn't seen it you may not be quite so baffled by peoples desire to do so.

― jed_ (jed), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 22:30 (nineteen years ago) link

i have seen it.

― cutty (mcutt), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 22:32 (nineteen years ago) link

in a film class.

― cutty (mcutt), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 22:32 (nineteen years ago) link

maybe if you hadn't you would want to though.

i'm even confusing myself.

― jed_ (jed), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 22:33 (nineteen years ago) link

point taken.

― cutty (mcutt), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 22:34 (nineteen years ago) link

i have seen it also. it was on uk network tv about 10 years ago strangley enough.

― jed_ (jed), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 22:36 (nineteen years ago) link

I'd love to see Battleship Potemkin scored to the "Flashdance" OST.

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 22:38 (nineteen years ago) link

LETS ALL GO WATCH INTOLERANCE YEAH YEAH

― cutty (mcutt), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 22:39 (nineteen years ago) link

http://www.cinemorgue.com/npoltavseva.jpg

At First, when there's nothing but a slow glowing dream
That your fear seems to hide deep inside your mind
All alone I have cried silent tears full of pride
In a world made of steel, made of stone

― jed_ (jed), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 22:45 (nineteen years ago) link

gish actually looks like a certain ilxor: http://www.craigcamera.com/lgish.jpg

― |a|m|t|r|s|t| (amateurist), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 01:49 (nineteen years ago) link

whoa, that's actually not incorrect.

― Allyzay Science Explosion (allyzay), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 01:49 (nineteen years ago) link

which one and does she have a boyfriend?

― AaronHz (AaronHz), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 01:52 (nineteen years ago) link

geez, that picture scared me. it looks like it's from a horror movie, the way she's sitting and all.

― Maria (Maria), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 01:55 (nineteen years ago) link

http://www.art-posters.net/posters/art/mbs3742.jpg

― jack cole (jackcole), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 01:57 (nineteen years ago) link

wow, that poster has almost nothing to do with the movie

― |a|m|t|r|s|t| (amateurist), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 01:59 (nineteen years ago) link

It's so full of intolerance.

― Allyzay Science Explosion (allyzay), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 02:01 (nineteen years ago) link

i presume that is the hand of one of those society busybodies griffith rails at for like 3 hours

― s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 02:44 (nineteen years ago) link

whoa, that's actually not incorrect.

Spot on! It's uncanny.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 03:00 (nineteen years ago) link

i don't see that where this is shown makes any difference: why should college students be deemed more 'responsible' than anyone else? it's censorship as plain as day, and opens a massive can of worms, since 'brith of a nation' is not exactly alone among hollywood movies in being racist: in its own way 'lost in translation' is just as bad, in that it can only portray the japanese as [comic] stereotypes. where would one stop?

The National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, which had protested the planned showing, said the movie “poisoned racial relationships in America for nearly a century.”

ultimately this is the same logic that tipper gore used againt rap in the '80s. and possibly the poisoning was done by eg segregation more than by a film?

― ENRQ, Wednesday, 11 August 2004 08:05 (nineteen years ago) link

This sort of nonsense can only work if it's applied equally everywhere. Therefore if you're going to ban Birth Of A Nation you need to ban at least 75% of rap/R&B for the offence it causes to women and gays. Either turn Nazi completely and ban everything, or realise that all art is conditioned by the times in which it is created and deal with it.

― Marcello Carlin, Wednesday, 11 August 2004 08:10 (nineteen years ago) link

in its own way 'lost in translation' is just as bad

enrique have you seen birth of a nation? the racism here is hardly genteel. one scene has mae marsh leap from a cliff to her death to be spared the "fate worse than death"--being raped by a black man. the whole film is driven forward by a terrible fear of miscegnation. and its tied to a vision of history that is profoundly unsettling and perverse (although common enough back then).

to revisit my comments above, i agree that the NAACP is being foolish in trying to prohibit this film's screening publicly. but i guess that i also feel that given all the furor it inevitably causes when being shown in this manner, maybe people could program it more discreetly and less often (which they in point of fact do in general)--as noted above, the film is very easily seen on video.

― |a|m|t|r|s|t| (amateurist), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 12:14 (nineteen years ago) link

actually enrique the LiT/BoaN comparison is one of the stupidest things i've read on this board.

― |a|m|t|r|s|t| (amateurist), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 12:16 (nineteen years ago) link

it's a pretty silly comparsion, but easy on the hyperbole there, dude.

― Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 12:29 (nineteen years ago) link

http://web.ukonline.co.uk/classic.jsrpages/classic/davis/WhalesOfAugust01.jpg

Yup, Lilian is one hott mama.

(I heart her btw)

― Markelby (Mark C), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 12:33 (nineteen years ago) link

damn.

― cutty (mcutt), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 12:34 (nineteen years ago) link

WHICH ILXOR LOOKS LIKE GISH? WE MUST KNOW!!!!

― na (Nick A.), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 13:27 (nineteen years ago) link

WHICH ONE?

― na (Nick A.), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 15:18 (nineteen years ago) link

It's me. On Fridays. At Cabaret Manhole, on 4th.

― nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 17:37 (nineteen years ago) link

Also could seemingly everyone in the west under the age of 30 please look up the word "censorship" in a dictionary? The NAACP does not have anything like the jurisdiction to "go Nazi and ban everything." What the NAACP does have, generally speaking, is a legal team, some lobbying sway, and a rich, honorable, and totally helpful tradition of complaining about shit. There is a difference between (a) "censorship" and (b) people complaining about shit and other people going "oh, sorry then, nevermind" -- and even if you want to argue that the line between them is effectively blurry, simply eliding the language from the latter to the former doesn't cut it.

― nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 17:42 (nineteen years ago) link

it's not censorship, but a boycott.

― hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 17:45 (nineteen years ago) link

This is a good point. But why do they want to impoverish our knowledge of the past, however horrible, as opposed to augmenting it?

― Michael White (Hereward), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 17:47 (nineteen years ago) link

no idea. Without racism, or the history of it in America, the function of the NAACP wouldn't exist.

― hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 17:49 (nineteen years ago) link

I dunno, Michael: I'm not defending their stance, though I can think of a lot of reasons they'd adopt it. Just pointing out, I suppose in Marcello's direction, that this standard is equally applied everywhere: what films are deemed socially acceptable for screening is decided, every day, in practice, by the grand old social tradition of who's likely to complain about it, and how vocally, and how much traction their complaints will have with the public. Blah blah blah. It's not a very useful endeavor to try and close down a screening -- as opposed to, sure, going in on that contextualizing information or debate -- and I'm sure the would-be screener feels the slightest bit bullied or cornered over the whole thing, but whatever: that's the normal interplay of people being offended and other people not wanting to seem offensive.

(Possibly the NAACP were not big on the "contextualizing debate" idea because they knew it would be TOTALLY BORING.)

― nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 17:52 (nineteen years ago) link

it's boring b/c it's usually framed as a debate about "racist stuff: should we see it?" the actually manipulation of american history that makes the movie offensive and interesting isn't usually broached. when it is, it's often by griffith apologists who actually deem the film's version of events to be reasonably accurate (yes, i have heard many people suggest this).

― |a|m|t|r|s|t| (amateurist), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 17:55 (nineteen years ago) link

fuck. again, i always add an "-ly" when i mean to use an adjective, and leave it off when i mean to use an adverb. it's some obscure form of dyslexia, i'm convinced.

― |a|m|t|r|s|t| (amateurist), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 17:56 (nineteen years ago) link

although i concede that a debate about the legacy of reconstruction would probably bore most people, alas.

― |a|m|t|r|s|t| (amateurist), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 17:59 (nineteen years ago) link

debates are supposed to be boring!

― oops (Oops), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 18:00 (nineteen years ago) link

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