frasier - c/d s/d

The problem with this show imo is that the repartee is near untouchable but I can't bear the farce

I like the farce! I thought I would hate it but it always won me over. Except the camping at the cabin one.
Worst bits for me are bulldog and Daphne's family

"The Two Mrs. Cranes," the farce where Daphne is pretending to be married to Niles, is one of my favorites. Especially when Martin willfully sabotages the whole charade by claiming to be an astronaut.

OMG, Daphne's ex-boyfriend's accent.

Just started rewatching this from episode one after finishing Cheers, and it’s such a jarring, unwelcome transition. It’s impressive how quickly the show distanced itself from its predecessor, but the changes to Frasier’s character and temperament are so harsh. Weird to imagine what viewers must have thought at the time

I WAS DISAPPOINTED TBH

I grew to like it. But I think it's aged worse than Cheers - or, perhaps, it perfectly nails an unlikeable character I no longer enjoy spending time with.

Unlikeable characters. Apart from his dad.

and Roz

That's true, I loved Martin and Roz (who has had some SEVERE work done, going by her appearance in the fourth season of Broad City)

I grew to like it. But I think it's aged worse than Cheers - or, perhaps, it perfectly nails an unlikeable character I no longer enjoy spending time with.

Ha, yes! The truth of Grammer's character stains Frasier somewhat (also he reminds me of my stepdad)

for me it’s mainly grammer’s astonishing collection of bald-man mullets throughout the run which makes the show hard to watch whenever i run across an episode now

i feel i have perhaps shared this to this thread before but

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXceET3-awc

i think for me part of the reason that cheers has aged so much better than frasier is that cheers’ working-class milieu still feels eminently relatable while frasier and niles’ brittle, neurotic upwardly-mobile world seems further away than ever

in cheers, diane is forever the odd one out while in frasier it’s martin, and that feels significant

In Frasier, though, there's still the sense that Martin is down to Earth and possessed of common sense, while Diane is odd one out to the bar and also the audience.

I love that in Cheers, literally every character can be the butt of a joke and then, in a later scene, be laughing (with the audience) at another character. Woody can be the dumb hayseed but also the wise country kid seeing through Diane or Frasier's pretentions.

yeah that’s def why cheers is one of the greatest of all time - all the characters have multiple dimensions and they all play off each other in endlessly interesting ways

god i love that show

i rewatched all of frasier over the last 9 months. it was pretty heavy going at times, season 7 and after are excruciatingly bad at times, though with a little bit of an upward trend in quality in the last 2 seasons (i think they changed show-runners or something).

i understand why they changed the character of frasier so much, they wanted to give the show a completely separate identity and they succeeded. it is a little jarring though. frasier's aversion to going anywhere blue-collar with his dad after spending a decade drinking in a bar doesn't make a ton of sense for instance (although they do have an episode where nostalgic for cheers frasier starts frequenting daphne's british local).

I've started rewatching cheers. only a few episodes in so far but i imagine it will be a more enjoyable endeavor.

Cheers has a bigger cast and no redundant characters, whereas Martin and Daphne are boring, and Roz doesn't get enough good material, so it's basically Frasier and Niles and that's it. Also Frasier feels very 90s whereas Cheers feels timeless. Also fuckin' Ted Danson and Shelley Long, man.

daphne is a bit of a dud of a character but i think martin and roz are good and have plenty of good material - though the jokes about roz's promiscuity get old fairly quickly, they do thankfully move away from that a little

never really got into cheers (went on far too long too)

liked frasier better for the most part

though i love ted dansen

he's probably one of the only older actors that can still make me laugh

whereas like i never want to see anyone from frasier do anything again

never really got into cheers (went on far too long too)

liked frasier better for the most part

If only Cheers had made exactly 11 fewer episodes it would have been okay

Martin is kinda the co-lead in season 1 for a while. Then Niles clearly becomes the breakout character. But to begin with, it's Frasier and Martin arguing, and then the son runs around and discusses his problems with a variety of supporting characters.

when things switch to niles and daphne everything just falls apart

and niles' acting pretty much tanked after season 7 or whatever it was

they get together at the end of 7 - which is a bad enough season on its own - the next couple of seasons are terrible.

my impression from the internet/Twitter/memes/Buzzfeed is that younger audiences are way more fired up about this show than Cheers. Which might just be an age thing (they were kids when it was on so they're nostalgic for it), but like do a search for Buzzfeed + Frasier and it's kind of astonishing how much millennial reverence there is for this show

cheers is practically prehistoric for young millennials tbh.

This is otm in my experience. Frasier one of those shows that everyone I know saw at least once in a while, like Friends or Seinfeld or Will & Grace. Cheers is like the Cosby Show or All In the Family, not something you'd see.

i mean it's subjective but cheers just feels from a completely different time to me and i'm not exactly young anymore

millennial Frasier reverence seems like a combination of semi-ironic, mofo w/some dark secrets type stuff and genuine affection for the show? Frasier Crane more relatable to a specific millennial self-image than rest of the Cheers gang - he's over-educated and self-analytical but still hapless weirdo, and his minor celebrity and obsession with how he comes across to his audience makes is like a 90s version of mid-level social media fame

that's brilliant and probably spot on soref

he's also always horny and lonely which i think people online can relate with

that's a good explanation of it soref

he and Niles are both kind of stuck in a permanent adolescence, have never really become 'proper' adults like Martin, which feels like another bit of millennial angst (and adults tend revert back to their childhood self in some ways when around parents and siblings, so the fact he's always with Martin and Niles accentuates this?)

not sure i agree with that completely

iirc they blame martin for almost all their shortcomings in the first 2/3 of the entire show?

martin comments on their being momma's boys so that seems pretty evident

the twist is that martin took some of the blame to cover up their mom's i guess let's call it failures

and the brothers see their father as a better parent and themselves as bad sons later on in the show

the comedic side to it is that they can't help from being a bunch of babies and seek complex explanations to problems martin ends up explaining simply but almost brutishly

millennial Frasier reverence seems like a combination of semi-ironic, mofo w/some dark secrets type stuff and genuine affection for the show? Frasier Crane more relatable to a specific millennial self-image than rest of the Cheers gang - he's over-educated and self-analytical but still hapless weirdo, and his minor celebrity and obsession with how he comes across to his audience makes is like a 90s version of mid-level social media fame

this is 10/10

def understand why Cheers might seem prehistoric to youngsters, am 42 and the show was just ending when I hit 17 or so. Thank god for Channel 4 reruns.

Frasier is a boomer sort, so are we saying it scans for milennials bcz this is what their dreams might be? Steady well paid job, gorgeous flat, maid taking good care of parent, etc. I wouldn't say relatable.

Mainly due to this article which named it the best xmas special of all time, i watched the Miracle On 3rd Or 4th Street episode from Season 1 again a few weeks back; still one of the very best sitcom things i've ever seen, not a syllable out of place.

http://www.denofgeek.com/tv/christmas/38292/top-100-christmas-tv-episodes-of-all-time-20-1

please to have a top ten sitcoms that never featured an xmas episode but should have. My number one would be Young Ones.

Fawlty Towers

Thread inspired I've been going through some of the higher rated ones (seen the complete show quite some time ago). They really hold up great. When they were good, they were really, really good.

I toyed with the idea of rating every single episode but that’s just a whole other level of commitment i wasn’t willing to take on

I usually don’t like (TV) shows anyway so

I recently rewatched the Patrick Stewart episode - it's another variation on the "everyone thinks Frasier is gay" gag - it's a really funny episode, about gay panic without succumbing to it.

Also watched the Michael Keaton story (conman in a wheelchair) which was a little lame.

Seasons 1 to 3 are mostly classic. Tailed off badly after that and a lot of it is unwatchable (given what came before).

xp yeah that's a fantastic ep with Stewart

I watched all of them a couple of years ago and can't remember the Patrick Stewart one or the Christmas one!

there's a christmas episode in most seasons of frasier.

there is also a millennium episode (where martin keeps quoting austin powers)

Also watched the Michael Keaton story (conman in a wheelchair) which was a little lame.

ISWYDT