OK, is this the worst piece of music writing ever?

Amanda Marcotte's arguments seems kind of similar one Robert Elms used to make, about how Sgt. Pepper's was the moment everything went wrong for rock music - but Elms's essentialism was regarding race rather than gender, iirc he said something like late period Beatles took the 'blackness' out of rock music. but the way Elms frames it is that it's pre-sgt.pepper's rock that is 'authentic' and 'real' etc and the sgt.pepper's that represents a shift to stuff that's plastic and shallow

But he adds: "I just think they are either childlike and simple or rather leaden and pompous - one or the other all the time."
Theirs is a sanitised and anaemic version of American blues-inspired rock and roll, he complains.
"For me they turned something that was once sexy and raw and had roots, into something that was totally soulless, playground sing-along music."

I don't think they were taking blackness out as much as putting whiteness (Englishness) in. Which is appropriate, given their own rather pale complexions. Indeed, one could argue that it is morally preferable to continued appropriation of black American forms.

Hence the music-hallish Mr. Kite and 64 (plus I guess Octopus's Garden, Yellow Sub, Mustard)

I don't think they were taking blackness out as much as putting whiteness (Englishness) in.

Which wasn't exactly novel in 1967.

Of course not, but negging the Beatles for sounding *less* like Chuck Berry for a few minutes is kinda ridic

Exactly, nobody was sounding like Chuck Berry in 1967, and that wasn't down to Sgt. Pepper.

the way the Beatles' original fans, mostly young women, were a pushed aside and mocked politely asked what they thought of the new direction

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-keBliZndQ

i imagine some Rolling Stone articles did this but i don't think it was widespread. maybe in print rock crit which hasn't been relevant in decades. this feels like fighting an argument a few people had 40 years ago.

Would love to hear a compilation of the music that Otis Redding made towards the end of 67 under the influence of Sgt Pepper etc.
See what adding the blackness back into it would be like.

I heard that George Clinton recorded a full cover of the lp, so would love to hear taht too.
Is the Booker T & The Ms set Mclemore avenue a set of covers of the lp or Beatles in general or what?

That Elms quote is a great example of the *other* school of rockist thought i.e. music should come from the gut/soul, none of this pretentious art-school nonsense for me thanks! I don't think that's Marcotte's stance though, despite the bits about danceability.

xp Or maybe a set of covers of Abbey rd.

All of the songs on McLemore Avenue are from Abbey Road, hence the alb title and the cover shot:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/af/Mclemoreavenue_album.jpg/220px-Mclemoreavenue_album.jpg

Sure was decent of Billy Preston to rescue their pasty asses on subsequent recordings. Otherwise they just would have kept releasing "Till There Was You" b/w "Michelle."

The Elijah Wald book that D-40 mentions is really great, essential reading imo, and makes a FAR more nuanced and historically informed point.

is that the blues one? if so I should be buying it next week.

I meant How the Beatles Destroyed Rock 'n' Roll. (And his thesis is less simplistic than the title suggests.)

Right, should be getting Escaping The Delta; Robert Johnson and the invention of the blues. hadn't realised that the last bit of the thread had been about his other book on the Beatles.

That Elms quote is a great example of the *other* school of rockist thought i.e. music should come from the gut/soul, none of this pretentious art-school nonsense for me thanks! I don't think that's Marcotte's stance though, despite the bits about danceability.

― Gavin, Leeds, Wednesday, May 31, 2017 12:44 PM (fifty-four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this may not be Marcotte's stance, but I think it's similar to stuff that comes up in some of the more vulgar/clumsy iterations of poptimism, the idea that young women just enjoy pop music in some pure, unmediated, physical way, instead of overthinking everything like nerdy male music critics

I know a few women who were Beatles fans "until they got weird." But I think it was more about them promoting drugs.

It was the facial hair duh

this is a good review...

http://www.richardgoldsteinonline.com/the-original-sgt-pepper-negative-review.html

"And the pendulum started its long-term swings: progressive rock and corporate rock would be swatted back by punk and disco, hair metal would be blasted by grunge and hip-hop."

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/30/arts/music/beatles-sgt-peppers-lonely-hearts-club-band-anniversary.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=second-column-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0

I love how 70s music is still this weird rhetorical battleground. Back in the 80s I often heard that punk was a reaction against disco. I guess prog was kind of forgotten at that point.

hair metal obviously a reaction against disco.

grunge a reaction against hair metal. experimental horse music a reaction against grunge.

xpost reaction against baldness iirc

Pub Rock a reaction against Restaurant Rock which was a reaction against Cafe Jazz

this, by the way, was the beginning of the straight white male reaction against disco...

http://sleazethiscity.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/VH7-e1425291398633.jpeg

"only i can save the children from disco..."

https://alfredogarcia70.files.wordpress.com/2015/10/david-lee-roth-assless-chaps.jpg

listening to sgt pepper's now and my first reaction is that my copy skips.

also a little help from my friends is a surprisingly beautiful song

this may not be Marcotte's stance, but I think it's similar to stuff that comes up in some of the more vulgar/clumsy iterations of poptimism, the idea that young women just enjoy pop music in some pure, unmediated, physical way, instead of overthinking everything like nerdy male music critics

― soref, Wednesday, 31 May 2017 12:48 (thirty-four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yeah that's true. I definitely think those characterisations are the weakest part of the piece.

Gregorian chants were a reaction to grindcore iirc xps gah

Women were into Grindcore first, before it got all pretentious

this is a really good album

dang you guys still talking about the beatles in here huh

I remember watching a BBC documentary about '70s brit heavy metal where a couple of interviewees (I'm 99% sure one was Tony Iommi) mentioned in passing an antagonism towards soul music (or at least the soul club scene of the time), the point wasn't really picked up on but it wasn't something I'd ever seen or heard mentioned before.

It was Geezer Butler.

Did surprise me because nearly all of those 70s bands started of playing Motown/ soul/ R&B covers (hence the redundancy of a certain other thread).

Maybe they just got bored of that though and wanted to get HEAVY.

can't believe there's a redundant thread on ILM

I was thinking last night that it wouldn't exactly be too difficult to lob a solid intersectional feminist critique against a band of bigamists, deadbeat dads and wife beaters but Marcotte took the brave path of "this is why boys like Tool, ew"

It was Geezer Butler.

― Punnet of the Grapes (Tom D.), Wednesday, 31 May 2017 13:40 (eleven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Ah thanks! Yeah I wonder where that break with r&b/soul came for that generation of rock bands.

whiney, the beatles weren't a band of john lennons

that would've been really difficult given the level of knowledge of genetic engineering in 1960s Liverpool

Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Clone Band

or would "Clonely" be better?

clonely is better

When I'm 64 clearly about cloning overkill

tbf original Paul was the philanderer

Yes, but the guy they replaced Paul with after he died has proven to remarkably faithful to his spouses.