The Grateful Dead May 1977 Poll

holy fucking shit the buffalo show is incredible

Come to think of it, has anyone done a not-awful cover of "Dancing In The Street"? Hell, even the Who's covers of it are awful.

― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat)

mamas and the papas, monterey '67.

according to a dude on fb, the Cornell show never happened. Pretty air-tight, if you ask me:

I understand why most people think that 5/8/77 was real as can be. It's widely considered to be the holy grail of GD shows. And if it was an actual, real show, it would be just that. But the fact is, that it was a HOAX perpetrated through a joint effort of the US Department of Defense and the CIA. And this is nothing new. My uncle served in �Nam with one of the guys that were actually *in* the CIA experiment. Hell, if you don't believe me, it's even on the archive!There's been a lot of talk lately about the legendary fake show on 5/8/77. I've kept my silence on the subject for 22 years ... now it's finally time to come clean on the whole subject.The whole idea began back in late 1969/early 1970. The Department of Defense and the CIA were very disappointed by the way the Vietnam War was progressing. Not only were we losing but, more importantly, the US public did not approve of the war and, worse yet, weren't believing everything the military said about what was happening. This was an unprecedented event. Every other recent war was viewed positively by the public ... or at least with apathy in the case of Korea. Something had to be done. They decided to take a page from the Soviets and experiment with mind control. Together with Disney and a fledgling computer company called Microsoft, they set out to prove that brainwashing could really work on the very people who opposedthem: the hippies.It isn't widely known but Cornell was actually the second test of these mind control procedures. The first occurred in mid-1975 and was a dismal failure. 2 major mistakes were made. First, they picked the one time that the Dead were not touring. This created all sorts of problems with the subject audience. The more serious mistake was in not updating the criteria of the experiment. Due to typical government inefficiency, they used the 1969 version of the Dead that was playing when the program was conceived. The sudden appearance of Pigpen, who had died 2 years earlier, literally blew the minds of those in attendance. 6 months were spent erasing all traces of the "show" and carefully rebuilding as much of their minds as possible. Thesubjects were eventually released and most of them became evangelists, their only lingering memory of the whole experiment being an unshakeable belief that they'd witnessed a true miracle.Unfortunately, no tapes have been found from this first experiment. That's a real shame because the version of Dark Star-> St Stephen-> Eleven-> Lovelight used was supposedly the best ever. After a few drinks, the original scientists still speak in awe about the music heard that day.By Nov 1977, everyone was ready for the second test. This time, they learned from their mistakes. A small group of college students were hired to attend shows from 1976 through 1977. Our job was to collect tapes of the Dead's performances, select which tunes to use, and tohelp identify subjects for the upcoming experiment. The location and date were chosen with equal care. It was a off-day during the tour and the location close enough to the real concerts to be believed. Of moreimportance was the late snowfall that day. That unusual and easily confirmed event provided the glue that would hold the implanted memories together. Even now 22 years later, people "remembering" that concert use almost identical words to describe leaving the show.Overall, the experiment was a great success. Of course, some people were given slightly different memories. Some, like Teddy Goodbear, "remember" taping the show and were even provided "Audience" tapes to further cement the hoax. Still others remember getting "horribly smashed" up front. None of this actually occurred.A week after the "concert" experiment, a 2nd test was done on the town of Cornell itself. In order to perfect this hoax, the town itself must also be convinced that the concert took place. Disney had acquired owner- ship of all the local TV and radio stations through dummy corporations. Using special chips developed by Microsoft, they played sublimbminal messages to every man, woman and child in a 100 mile radius of Barton Hall. For the most part, this programming still holds today although some people did prove resistant to the message.As far as the source of the music, for the most part the list posted by "brew ziggins" is correct. The only mystery remaining is the Scarlet-> Fire. That was actually performed by the Dead specifically for this experiment. Since Jerry worked for the CIA, it was easy to convince him and the rest of the band to go along. Plus he liked the idea of "pranking" a large group of people like this. The fabled 2/6/77 "take a step back" rehearsal tape is also from material taped for these experiments.The soundboard tapes in circulation were leaked by Betty O'Connell whoedited the original tapes. I don't know if it was just a coincidence or not, but they were leaked at about the same time as the tapes recorded by Betty Cantor were found. In any event, they became part of the so-called "Betty Boards". Leaking these tapes also provided the first cracks in the hoax to appear since the tapes were distributed to people who were not in the experiment and who knew that no show was performed that day. It was necessary to obtain their silence through blackmail, bribery and in extreme cases, mind control itself. That's also how this "show" came to be listed in all the popular Dead show guides like DeadBase.So what's happened to these mind control techniques used in this experiment? Microsoft has used this power to become one of the biggest, most influential companies in history. They sure didn't become that big by providing quality products. It was used to shape public reaction to the Gulf War. It's also clear that George Bush never understood the full power of these methods. . There are also indications that this technology might explain the otherwise unbelievable popularity of rap music.That's the whole story."BARTON HALL, ITHACA, NY 5/8/77 -- The Show That Never Happened"Track listing Actual Source------------ ---------------1.Minglewood Blues [4:47] Winterland 3/20/772.Loser [7:30] Springfield 4/23/773.El Paso [4:22] Chicago 5/13/774.They Love Each Other [6:59] Lakeland 5/21/775.Jack Straw [6:00] Tempe 10/6/776.Deal [5:43] St. Paul 5/11/777.Lazy Lightnin' [3:29] > St. Louis 5/15/778.Supplication [4:21] "9.Brown-Eyed Women [5:12] Winterland 6/8/7710.Mama Tried [2:37] Seattle 9/29/7711.Row Jimmy [10:52] Fox, Atlanta 5/19/7712.Dancin' in the Streets [15:43] Pembroke Pines 5/22/77 (DP3)Set II:13.Scarlet Begonias [9:14] > ???14.Fire on the Mountain [15:21] ???15.Estimated Prophet [8:32] Passaic NJ 4/27/7716.St. Stephen [4:43] > Mostly Passaic NJ 6/18/7617.Not Fade Away [16:22] > with some tricky splicing of the18.St. Stephen [1:53] > middle of an unidentified NFA19.Morning Dew [13:36] Cow Palace 12/31/76Encore:20.One More Saturday Night [4:54] Springfield 4/23/77

Since Jerry worked for the CIA,

This is covered a bit in the (just ok) new book about Cornell '77

Watching the new Amazon doc, pretty great, though the early 70s concert is so.... repellent... There's no other word. Just all these drugged out naked people writing around, announcements hey can so and so please come to the tent you lost (or forgot) your child. I almost get panic attack thinking about being there

another world is possible maaan

also dosing people without their knowledge or consent seems like a pretty fucked up thing to do

definitely stuck out that Garcia's daughter called him "Jerry."

Yeah that dosing part was crazy
Haven't seen part 4 yet

Ramrod and all those roadies were a real bunch

i watched the whole thing yesterday & feel a renewal of interest. it's such a gaping maw of a rabbit hole though i've always hung back

i told Mr Veg that I maybe finally ready to try listening to a live show & he just shook his head sadly *he worked for Bill Graham in his 20's & did every Bay Area Dead show from 88-93. He has had Dead-related PTSD ever since*

since tylerw has never steered me wrong on Floyd, i might check out 8/27/72 Veneta

but if I come back later saying I've made a mix of my favorite Dark Star versions or some shit then please kindly kill me

8/27/72 'playing in the band' is what i'd play to convert a hater

The Veneta show was one of my ways in. After whole decades of absolutely despising the Dead, that show's "Dark Star" (as posted by Scott Seward on another thread) shocked me -- I didn't hate it.

I just got the Oakland '76 shows, where they opened for the Who and played twice as long. Apart from digging them (and generally preferring these shows to Cornell), I realized with horror that I haven't even heard the Who's sets from these shows. And the contemporary review reprinted in the booklet praises both bands, but somewhat hilariously criticizes the Who for "aimless noodling."

pot black etc

I know, right?

After Monterey, Townshend said the Dead were "terrible...one of the original ropeys!"

But by 1981 he figured, "eh, these guys have some good coke, might as well sit in with them":

https://youtu.be/20dic8S3cWI

the whole doc series was pretty affecting
i can see why scorcese was a producer, it's got the tragic arc he prefers, a burst of freedom in the 60s and 70s hardens into a gilded prison and ultimately death and betrayal and hard drugs throughout the 80s and 90s

on one hand felt bad for jerry for what the whole thing had become, him trapped in his hotel room as these bud light bros rioted outside of football stadiums, but at the same time his passivity and unwillingess to ever change anything -- or most importantly ever take responsibility for anything-- was frustrating

on the other hand the whole thing was an amazing venture...the only band that really tried to try to live out the ethos of the 1960s for the rest of their lives, even though it turned into a nightmare

the part on the tape trading scene and the sheer volume of improv music they made over the years was stunning

al franken talking about "althea" guitar solos was really cuet <3

some of the people in that doc have a serious case of ray manzarek-itis when they wax philosophical about the band lol

the whole thing so gripping and i'm a very casual fan

their version of "good lovin'" by the rascals is so hideous i want to build a time machine, kill myself just and be reincarnated as a member of wire just so i could participate in the recording of pink flag

john perry barlow seems like quite a character! him and the one roadie w/the new yawk accent were my favs

Barlow probably deserves a doc of his own (though he has some cringe-worthy ideas)
still need to carve out some time to watch this damn thing! i did not marry a deadhead.

the new yawk roadie kinda turned me off, he sounded like the worst of the Jerry acolytes to me

but I liked John Perry Barlow a lot.

loved the tour manager Sam Cutler - seems like he was a no bullshit kinda dude

Barlow probably deserves a doc of his own (though he has some cringe-worthy ideas)
still need to carve out some time to watch this damn thing! i did not marry a deadhead.

― tylerw, Tuesday, June 6, 2017 1:26 PM (thirteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i sort of assume all these true kvlt dead insider have some sort of weirdo acid-head post hippie gun-owning libertarian get off my weird ranch vibe?

the new yawk roadie kinda turned me off, he sounded like the worst of the Jerry acolytes to me

yeah def but i guess..you know...i suppose he's been through a lot

it's funny that i remember people from when i was post HS/and in college talk about Dead shows as these big things and now understand this was like the sad, squalid death rattle of a once great band....

xpost - veg - yeah! he was great, can you imagine going from road managing the stones up through altamont then switching immediately to road managing the dead until 74?

the things he's seen....

but yeah he's like a rock lifer right out of a movie, incredible character

also jerry's daughter trixie seems like a very sweet, intelligent and decent person and you could tell she has a lot of sadness about everything....

oh yeah one more the soundtrack is on spotify and seems like a pretty good initiation to trv kvlt deadness for non deadheads, be curious what the experts thought of the tracklist

i'm enjoying it

I think Barlow self-identifies as a "Cyberlibertarian" which makes me feel like throwing up a little, but he isn't all wackadoo.

Definitely recommend Jesse Jarnow's recent book HEADS for loads of fascinating Dead-related scene reports and characters.

i love that thing cutler said, like "the Dead make some of the best music I've ever heard but let me tell you they are DUMB"

yes, almost a thesis if you will ^^^^

like almost everything they describe, the touring, the way they did or didnt make decisions, all the hangers on ... it just sounds like my worst nightmare of ppl to spend any time with

but at the same time his passivity and unwillingess to ever change anything -- or most importantly ever take responsibility for anything-- was frustrating

That part where he refused to put any blame on the Hells Angels for murdering Meredith Hunter (and assaulting many others) at Altamont was fucking infuriating. I get that he's super non-confrontational, and wants to be non-authoritarian, but to react to that disaster with a shrug (and to shrug off his own part in it -- he'd recommended the Angels to the Stones as security) is fucking bullshit.

^^^ totally

like at some point your no rules anti authoritarian hippie ethos becomes "i am an amoral asshole"

the misogyny was alluded to in the film, i'm sure there's a whole nauseating thing happening there too

definitely a misogynist thing happening w/ the dead, though i suppose very few of their contemporaries employed a female sound engineer (Betty Cantor). Does she show up in the doc?

Nope, not mentioned at all. They interview another Europe '72 engineer, but she doesn't even get name-checked.

bummer -- i know betty's relationship w/ the dead world these days is a little fraught (due in part to aforementioned misogynist attitudes)

Steve Parish mentions all the road crew by name (iirc, Stinky, Zippy, RedBong, Beardo), and there's [SPOILER ALERT] approximately 25 minutes of footage of the roadies doing nitrous.

So yeah, mentioning Betty would have meant cutting valuable minutes of nitrous-huffing.

no betty but hardly any dick either

plenty of dick just no Dick

lol

Yeah if you wanna see hippie dongs this is yr documentary

there's a tan blonde gnarly iggy pop looking dude crouched on the stack in one of the early 70's shows, and the next time they cut to him he is standing up & oh hi completely naked

i loled so hard it was just so funny to me

another part i thought was funny was phil pointing out that after 74 and the hiatus something was just missing, there was a hole there. and like five minutes later bob is like 'we just kept getting better and better... and when brent joined we had *three* good singers!!'

xp in dead circles that guy is legendary as "naked pole guy"

lol

Up to the break in 74 it was quite good. Then as mentioned upthread we get Phil saying there was a hole with no exposition. Then the a few seconds of some late 70s footage and then the episode ends and we get to look at interviews of dead heads from the 80s ? Wanted more 70s

Great hearing about Hunter tho

is barlow's role in the eff not really known very well? i knew him as "that eff guy" like several decades before i realized he had anything to do with the dead. i mean "lol cyberlibertarian" or whatever but the eff has done and continues to do good work.

what is the eff

...and what's his prolem?

EFF is gonna rock ya

they're kinda like the ACLU of the internet

https://www.eff.org/about