Trump, May 2017: 100 days of [unintelligible]

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it's true he should be flushed down a toilet after being left to die by a 9 yo

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 10 May 2017 20:19 (seven years ago) link

David Roberts also wrote this back in Sept, which he references in that Twitter thread:

https://www.vox.com/2016/9/29/13086236/trump-beliefs-category-error

Bio-Digital Jezza (kingfish), Wednesday, 10 May 2017 20:20 (seven years ago) link

who the HELL would put a laptop in checked baggage the way that shit gets thrown around?

Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 10 May 2017 20:22 (seven years ago) link

SSD, my dude

jason waterfalls (gbx), Wednesday, 10 May 2017 20:24 (seven years ago) link

Me

badg, Wednesday, 10 May 2017 20:24 (seven years ago) link

xp

badg, Wednesday, 10 May 2017 20:24 (seven years ago) link

https://i.imgur.com/BnXI0vz.png

(•̪●) (carne asada), Wednesday, 10 May 2017 20:25 (seven years ago) link

Yea the Roberts thing seems very otm to me, which I think explains his reaction to all the Russia stuff - he's incredulous about it because its bad news, but in reality he has no clue what any of it is about. I think back to this article about that 2007 deposition a lot:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/2016-election/trump-lies/

I 100% believe that Trump does not *think* he is hiding anything. I also believe that if any one of the many, many Russian entities that he has frequent contacts with offered him a deal to influence the election that he would accept without a second thought. When has he *not* thought he was above the law?

frogbs, Wednesday, 10 May 2017 20:27 (seven years ago) link

As pointed out in the article, remember the freakouts about Li-Ion batteries causing fires in baggage compartments?

Bio-Digital Jezza (kingfish), Wednesday, 10 May 2017 20:27 (seven years ago) link

Deadly serious Q: Was it a good idea to let a Russian gov photographer & all their equipment into the Oval Office? https://t.co/6WA4NxHxID

— Colin Kahl (@ColinKahl) May 10, 2017

jason waterfalls (gbx), Wednesday, 10 May 2017 20:29 (seven years ago) link

is there a big difference when substation bomb goes off in a baggage compartment or the main cabin ?

(•̪●) (carne asada), Wednesday, 10 May 2017 20:29 (seven years ago) link

substantial not substation*

(•̪●) (carne asada), Wednesday, 10 May 2017 20:31 (seven years ago) link

I am taking this with a grain of salt:

Source to @jaketapper: 2 reasons Comey was fired
1. Comey never provided Trump w assurance of loyalty
2. FBI's Russia probe was accelerating pic.twitter.com/j4shX70Ff1

— CNN (@CNN) May 10, 2017

PJD PDJ DPJ (DJP), Wednesday, 10 May 2017 20:32 (seven years ago) link

I dunno, reads plausible from here.

Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 10 May 2017 20:34 (seven years ago) link

i think it's very plausible, but whether or not there's a paper trail to support it is the thing. if there is, then there's grounds for impeachment. if not, then *shrug emoji*

jason waterfalls (gbx), Wednesday, 10 May 2017 20:36 (seven years ago) link

what is "it"?

the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 10 May 2017 20:36 (seven years ago) link

besides this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BT1oNdYUPg

the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 10 May 2017 20:37 (seven years ago) link

The most otm thing in the Roberts tweetstorm is that he fired Comey to get him off his TV. He would do the same to SNL and Jake Tapper if he could.

FP'd

jason waterfalls (gbx), Wednesday, 10 May 2017 20:40 (seven years ago) link

ahhhhh

the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 10 May 2017 20:42 (seven years ago) link

get that the fuck off my screen

the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 10 May 2017 20:42 (seven years ago) link

what is "it"?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZG_k5CSYKhg

Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 10 May 2017 20:42 (seven years ago) link

well i thought trixon was funny.

scott seward, Wednesday, 10 May 2017 20:44 (seven years ago) link

i am on record as being anti 'russian conspiracy'. but i'm pretty freaked/disgusted by the Cambridge Analytica angle. we have our own shitbags! trump wouldn't need to make any international calls to find help.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/26/us-billionaire-mercer-helped-back-brexit
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/26/robert-mercer-breitbart-war-on-media-steve-bannon-donald-trump-nigel-farage
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/04/nigel-oakes-cambridge-analytica-what-role-brexit-trump

that's not apropos to what's happening today really. just ruminating...

it would be beyond hilarious if trump fired comey over an investigation, and tanks his presidency because of it, when there wasn't anything impeachable there to begin with. but i doubt that will happen.

goole, Wednesday, 10 May 2017 20:45 (seven years ago) link

they would have gotten along pretty good. have some sodas together. talk about who they hate.

scott seward, Wednesday, 10 May 2017 20:45 (seven years ago) link

Trump no doubt doesn't think he's done anything wrong because he hasn't done anything differently from all his rich friends/cohort: sketchy loans, laundering, favor swapping, shady real estate deals. That's just how it's done if you're a billionaire. But you can't get away with that if you're president, and he probably hasn't figured that out yet. You also can't get away with that if you're 99% of American (see: how the fuck did this piece of shit get elected again?).

Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 10 May 2017 20:45 (seven years ago) link

New Haberman/Thrush story

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/05/10/us/politics/how-trump-decided-to-fire-james-comey.html

Mr. Trump, according to people close to the president, had been openly talking about firing Mr. Comey for at least a week. Despite the objections from some of his aides about the optics and the lack of an obvious successor, the grumbling evolved into a tentative plan as he angrily watched the Sunday news shows at his Bedminster, N.J., golf resort.

Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 10 May 2017 20:46 (seven years ago) link

The most otm thing in the Roberts tweetstorm is that he fired Comey to get him off his TV. He would do the same to SNL and Jake Tapper if he could.

― a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Wednesday, May 10, 2017 4:38 PM (six minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i saw someone joke on twitter that trump had fired comey because trump was mad about this longread https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-comey-letter-probably-cost-clinton-the-election/

𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Wednesday, 10 May 2017 20:46 (seven years ago) link

i wonder if Anthony Hopkins will play Yam?

those Sunday shows will kill us all yet

Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 10 May 2017 20:47 (seven years ago) link

Notable:

At first, Mr. Trump, who is fond of vetting his decisions with a wide circle of staff members, advisers and friends, kept his thinking to a small circle, venting his anger to Vice President Mike Pence; the White House counsel, Donald F. McGahn II; and his son-in-law, Jared Kushner, who all told him they generally backed dismissing Mr. Comey.

Another early sounding board was Keith Schiller, Mr. Trump’s longtime director of security and now a member of the White House staff, who would later be tasked with delivering the manila envelope containing Mr. Comey’s letter of dismissal to F.B.I. Headquarters, an indication of just how personal the matter was to the president.

Two senior aides — the chief strategist Stephen K. Bannon and Reince Priebus, the White House chief of staff, who have both been critical of the F.B.I. — questioned whether the time was right to dismiss Mr. Comey, arguing that doing it later would reduce the backlash, according to two people familiar with their thinking.

Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 10 May 2017 20:48 (seven years ago) link

goole: the CA stuff is almost entirely snake oil, and i worry we are doing their marketing for them by attributing too much to them. but i find the idea they are worth 1% to a candidate quite plausible, and they (and others) will get better. i also have no doubt that, whether or not it worked, they did a ton of stuff that is illegal under EU data protection and data harbour law, if not US law.

𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Wednesday, 10 May 2017 20:49 (seven years ago) link

ahahahahahahahahaha wait, Kushner was on the "fire him" train and BANNON was all "wait, this will look bad"?

PJD PDJ DPJ (DJP), Wednesday, 10 May 2017 20:50 (seven years ago) link

Makes you wonder who the sources are!

Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 10 May 2017 20:50 (seven years ago) link

In separate rabbit holes

This is very dangerous stuff https://t.co/RxKQ7cqJTl

— Maggie Haberman (@maggieNYT) May 10, 2017

Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 10 May 2017 20:50 (seven years ago) link

christ on a bike

goole, Wednesday, 10 May 2017 20:53 (seven years ago) link

markey seems kind of dumb

marcos, Wednesday, 10 May 2017 20:54 (seven years ago) link

caek: huh that's something to think about

DJP: a bootlick vs a crooked adult human i guess

goole, Wednesday, 10 May 2017 20:55 (seven years ago) link

Kushner was on the "fire him" train and BANNON was all "wait, this will look bad"?

xpost yeah, i thought like goole, that's a guy who has no idea vs a shitstain with experience.

we have no facts and we're voting no (Hunt3r), Wednesday, 10 May 2017 21:00 (seven years ago) link

Here we go, I pasted David Roberts' twitter thread into rough paragraph form:

OK, y'all, time for some game theory. Ha ha, jk. It's actually time for some theory of mind! Gigantic tweetstorm to follow. Brace thyself.

I want to riff on the point I made here, which I still think is central to our current political...uh, situation.

"Theory of mind" (ToM) is a concept in psychology. To have a ToM is to interpret the behavior of others as reflecting inner states. It is to interpret behavior as issuing from, and evidence of, desires, beliefs, intentions, fears, etc.

Humans typically develop ToM early, around 2-3. There are raging debates about whether various animals have ToM, or if so what kind. People on the autism spectrum have difficulty w/ ToM -- difficulty connecting behaviors to mental states, difficulty "reading" behavior. Autism-spectrum presents one kind of ToM problem: a rich text to be read, but a reader with difficulty reading.

There is, however, another (I suspect) more rare ToM problem, namely: sophisticated readers over-interpreting a text. Typical adults are drawn almost irresistibly to see behaviors as indicators of complex mental states - persistent beliefs, desires, etc.

Here's the thing: Trump, by all indications, does not have beliefs, intentions, etc. that are stable, persistent across contexts. He is attuned to who is dominating & who is submissive *in the situation he finds himself in*. It is 100% situational, 0% persistent. He seeks domination. That's all. He does not care about, or even seem cognizant of, lying, reversing himself, switching loyalties, etc. He's like a goldfish. No beliefs, intentions, plans, or schemes are carried from place to place. Every situation is new. There is, in a very real sense, no "mind" as such, only a set of animal impulses -- seek approbation, avoid blame, dominate, win.

Here's the problem: healthy adults are simply *not accustomed to dealing w/ someone like that*. It is a rare pathology and even rarer for someone to be so protected by money/power/family that they can succeed in life despite the pathology. To find someone with that pathology in a central position of power in the US is simply unprecedented. Utterly novel.

Normal people with normal ToM (including journalists) find it almost impossible to resist over-interpreting Trump's behavior to see it as reflective of stable, persistent beliefs, intentions, and plans. They read "mind" into his behavior. Can't help it. And this describes the vast bulk of journalism & analysis on Trump: a desperate attempt to figure out what kind of "mind" could possibly result in this bizarre set of statements & actions. Is there some long con? Is he distracting us? Secretly a genius?

Firing Comey in the middle of the Russia investigation, for example, seems nigh inexplicable. Where's the "mind," the deeper rationale?

Does this show he "actually" wants to become a dictator? That he "actually" has inside info on what Comey knew/intended? That he's "actually" distracting attention from the Census thing (or all the other things)? "Actually" angling for revenge on Clinton?

All of these are (perfectly understandable) attempts to apply ToM. It's what we do, instinctively, *especially* in political analysis.

The mistake is not any particular one of these theories. The mistake is *applying conventional ToM at all*. As I argued in the piece (linked way back in tweet 1), Trump is, by all indications, just a bundle of impulses. Nothing more.

Most likely explanation re: Russia is not some deep, secret plot, but ... DT saying yes to something that felt good in the moment and then immediately forgetting about it, connecting it to nothing else. Thus the confusion why everyone keeps bringing it up.

Most likely explanation re: Comey is not some Machiavellian tactic, but ... he kept seeing Comey on TV saying not-awesome things and that gave him bad feels, made him feel non-dominant. So he made Comey get off his TV. No "mind," just stimulus-response.

Accepting this fact -- that ToM is useless, that Trump really is nothing more than amygdala -- is *absolutely terrifying*. It is more terrifying than any particular ToM as applied to Trump. Stable desires & intentions, even if evil, at least *make sense*. A Trump ToM gives us the comfort of knowing that at least someone's in charge, someone has a handle on things, even if malign.

The idea that Trump is simply doing what produces good feels in a particular situation, that he is utterly unconstrained by consistency, by past commitments or statements, by laws or norms, by *anything* -- that's there's no "mind" as such -- is chilling.

What if he finds himself in a position where North Korea is giving him bad feels? Will he be able to assess a response in light of past commitments, expectations, strategy, norms, or decency? Probably not! He will seek a feeling of dominance *in the moment*. A mindless Trump, acting purely on impulse, is far more dangerous than an evil Trump, acting on grand, secret schemes.

As difficult as it is, journalists, analysts, & other political actors need to internalize this. Evil can be predicted, bargained w/ but there's no predicting or reasoning w/ pure animal impulse. ToM is useless. Only containment or removal will work. </fin>

Bio-Digital Jezza (kingfish), Wednesday, 10 May 2017 21:21 (seven years ago) link

So he made Comey get off his TV.

I know the Billy Mumy Twilight Zone pic is getting to be a cliche but

I don't really like any of these albums (Dan Peterson), Wednesday, 10 May 2017 21:44 (seven years ago) link

frightening indeed

(•̪●) (carne asada), Wednesday, 10 May 2017 21:49 (seven years ago) link

i saw someone joke on twitter that trump had fired comey because trump was mad about this longread https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-comey-letter-probably-cost-clinton-the-election/

― 𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Wednesday, May 10, 2017 3:46 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

This is an angle I hadn't considered but which actually makes a huge amount of sense. Donnie Fucknugget wins the goddamn election via electoral votes, but that isn't enough. He obsesses over the variety of ways that he could (and SHOULD) have won the popular vote as well, and insists that the voting must have been rigged because nothing else makes sense. Now you have people making a big noise about how it's likely that Comey's interference is what ultimately swung the election...and that won't do! Ding Dong only won because of popularity! So he needs to grind this dude into the dirt, to essentially make him a nonentity, so that people stop making these slanderous FAKE! SAD! assertions.

Again, Trump's razor seems to suggest that we seek the basest, pettiest, most depraved explanation for any action he undertakes. He's purely reactive, and he's at his most reactive when his fwagile widdle ego is threatened.

Download this Man With Hamburder And Mug (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 10 May 2017 22:02 (seven years ago) link

Hadn't read that Roberts thing. Rings 100% true to me.

Download this Man With Hamburder And Mug (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 10 May 2017 22:06 (seven years ago) link

perlstein on why trump is not like nixon https://thebaffler.com/salvos/time-bandits-perlstein

𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Wednesday, 10 May 2017 22:10 (seven years ago) link

This is an angle I hadn't considered but which actually makes a huge amount of sense.

Trump doesn't read.

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 10 May 2017 22:14 (seven years ago) link

Trump doesn't read.

he reads headlines & urls which is all that one would need.

actually I don't think he reads headlines or urls either, based on what people say about his habits

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 10 May 2017 22:19 (seven years ago) link

he mostly watches cable TV

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 10 May 2017 22:19 (seven years ago) link

He is also read to, mind.

Download this Man With Hamburder And Mug (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 10 May 2017 22:20 (seven years ago) link


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