Trump, May 2017: 100 days of [unintelligible]

that's pretty anecdotal xp. you live in colorado or something? literally everyone i know/associate with is in the bernie/warren wing or leftier

you don't have to get prescriptions from doctors in europe?!?

man

free pills, sexy commercials, a new kind of money that they named after themselves

they've really got it all

There are certain medications that have to be ordered through certain pharmacies e.g. Express Scripts

ok i'm back off europe

Growing up steeped in post-Reagan gubmint-is-the-problem rhetoric has had a lasting effect. I find a lot of suspicion of government in general there, a lot of sympathy for the idea that there are "too many rules" (e.g., why do I have to comply with these annoying fire regulations when I'm building the microbrewery of my dreams)

i'd agree with this -- i think there's a strong streak of libertarianism running through people who might otherwise self-identify as "liberal" or "progressive," even

that's pretty anecdotal xp. you live in colorado or something? literally everyone i know/associate with is in the bernie/warren wing or leftier

― global tetrahedron, Friday, May 5, 2017 6:15 AM (twenty-three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

anecdotally nevada and colorado are super libertarian, though this last election millennials in nevada under that description tended to align with sanders

again that's all very anecdotal

I've seen a lot of self-described libertarians in my age group support Sanders and what that tells me it's less important for these people to have a coherent political ideology than it is to be anti-establishment and/or "different"

well that's libertarian ethos for you

millennial libertarianism among people you'd hope would be more ideologically left is also a product of just general privilege, and i think also of having a lot of the defining political causes they grew up with be, or be presented as, effectively devoid of class analysis. government trying to censor your video games, government trying to impose the ten commandments, government trying to block same-sex marriage. lots of space for middle-class teenaged white kids with their hearts in the right place to despise the government. i think i was one of them for a long time until suddenly i wasn't. not sure if it was reading the reagan-trashing sleepwalking through history in high school or what.

it's less important for these people to have a coherent political ideology than it is to be anti-establishment and/or "different"

then why is their music so shit

different in a way that people will think that they're special, not different in a way that would actually change anything

I was required to read Ayn Rand's Anthem in ninth grade

We're talking about EDM right

"libertarianism is astrology for men" is one of the more eternal tweets I have read

Yeah what Dr. Casino is saying is in line w/what I've encountered (I'm in a red state, which I'm sure is part of it). Plenty of 20-somethings who support gay rights and health care for all but at the same time say things like "I'm not political" (becz political is bad) and don't seem to have any real grounding in history or grasp of how, say, Social Security works. Which doesn't mean there isn't some fertile ground there from a left perspective, I just wouldn't take it for granted.

i usually really value you folks' insight on most other things but your assessment of 'the kids' is so off base i'm second guessing myself

tbh: I actually don't know how Social Security works

i usually really value you folks' insight on most other things but your assessment of 'the kids' is so off base i'm second guessing myself

― global tetrahedron, Friday, May 5, 2017 7:21 AM (forty seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

idk i grew up in nevada and visit often, i've met a LOT of young libertarians. but if i'm wrong and they're all hardcore leftists then i guess fine

fwiw in France the pharmacies require that the drugs be prescribed by a doctor, unless you're wearing a beret and can mime the prescription. then it's free pills.

i suppose i'm skewed too because i'm a young person living in minneapolis

Is there a thread about healthcare around the world?

one of the benefits of living in Washington DC means that my family and I will not have to put up with the post-apocalypse at all.

I'll be a permanent part of it
Noo Yawk Nooooooooo Yawk

Very few of the under-40 people I know who call themselves libertarians really support libertarian economics - they strike me mostly as Clinton Democrats who are more pro-drugs/guns and use libertarian to express a dissatisfaction with a seemingly non-responsive political system.

Libertarian economics are the domain of straight-ticket Republicans IME

Are there really places where prescriptions don't need to be filled by a doctor, regardless of who's paying?? I mean, I gather that you can get prescriptions without this in India if you're friends with the pharmacist or slip them enough rupees but I just put that down to the way everything customarily works.

In Mexico (even in upscale parts of Puerto Vallarta) the farmacias freely sell most meds (including Xanax), though they required a prescription for Adderall. Don't know if they're doing something illegal or in a gray area.

"people I know" is never a good barometer for anything because there are a lot of people with very different values and experiences than me that I never interact with

true

they strike me mostly as Clinton Democrats who are more pro-drugs/guns and use libertarian to express a dissatisfaction with a seemingly non-responsive political system

also true in my experience

and they don't like taxes despite not paying any

and few have a stake in the system yet

in France you need a prescrip from a doctor but it can be filled anywhere

Very few of the under-40 people I know who call themselves libertarians really support libertarian economics - they strike me mostly as Clinton Democrats who are more pro-drugs/guns and use libertarian to express a dissatisfaction with a seemingly non-responsive political system.

Libertarian economics are the domain of straight-ticket Republicans IME

― El Tuomasbot (milo z), Friday, May 5, 2017 9:31 AM (fourteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

That's also my experience here in Texas, although I do see a grasp of economics that begins and ends with "Taxation Is Theft". These people really got into Bitcoin.

An exception is this woman I work with. She recently very nearly finished grad school in economics, identifies as Libertarian, but in the two years I've known her went from one who was 'too smart' for politics and claimed to have never voted ("...and never will!") to actively hateing Sanders and getting seriously in the tank for Johnson.

i think i was one of them for a long time until suddenly i wasn't.

same

crut otm re "ppl i know" not being the best barometer. like you, global, i was a young person living in minneapolis and to judge from my friend group it would have been easy to think everyone in the world was a queer hardcore lefty

but having grown up in rural minnesota, and also lived as a young person in colorado, montana, and new hampshire, i can tell you that youth=left doesn't always work

It is sometimes fun to imagine a country where all the young people are like the student body at the New England liberal arts college from which I am typing.

I take it no one in this thread is familiar with the shorthand "libertarians = Republicans who smoke pot"?

i think i may have posted this here before, but maybe not:

a friend of mine from HS who definitely identifies as a real-deal misesian libertarian (and is under 40) also said in a FB discussion that he would've voted for Sanders in the general election

his rationale was that bernie's ~values~ aligned with his (very christian in a "the meek shall inherit the earth" kinda way) and that ~if~ we are to suffer the violence of taxation, corporations and the very wealthy should be taxed the most. ~if~ we are resigned to government interference in our healthcare system, then it should at least be designed to serve everyone equally and provide everyone access

ANECDOTALLY I see a lot of young people (mostly via the Weird Appalachia group on FB) who were Sanders supporters and have now rallied around the slogan of "cornbread communism" -- as a group they tend to be white, rural, often queer, & more likely to own guns than your average Dem voter. They really like movies and books about labor history. While most outspoken about the need for class analysis, they also seem capable of taking to heart accusations that they are engaged in "class reductionism" or neglecting the "lived experiences" of poc.

xp gbx your friend sounds NUTS

It is sometimes fun to imagine a country where all the young people are like the student body at the New England liberal arts college from which I am typing.

― My Body's Made of Crushed Little Evening Stars (Sund4r), Friday, May 5, 2017 10:05 AM (thirty seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i am also sitting on the campus of a liberal arts college in new england (maybe the same one????) and idk -- if remade in the image of this particular institution (Fartmouth) the world would look....exactly like the community in which it resides

xp he...kinda is?

he was how i first learned about the Rapture...because some of his family believed in it. this was while we were in the basement of his house painting warhammer miniatures and around the time we found his dad's porno stash in the garage

he now has a passel of kids and appears to be raising them in some sort of archery-based offshoot of evangelical christianity (not kidding: he's really into the k1cking b3ar ministry..google it up)

"libertarians = Republicans who smoke pot"?

ie Grandchildren of PJ O'Rourke

archery-based offshoot of evangelical christianity

lol/sob

William F. Buckley had no problem with rich people smoking pot in their yachts in international waters

So glad we've moved away from generalizing endlessly about the disgruntled white working class! We're now instead exploring what lessons we can learn by nailing down the politics of:

1. White rural queers who read a lot about labor history
2. Christian fans of archery and obscure Austrian economists
3. Liberal-arts students in New England
4. Bitcoin-loving Texans
5. Pot-smoking yachtsmen

This line of thinking will surely lead us toward electoral victory

FDA TVs now required to show FOX News all the time.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C_EitMVW0AU7ODZ.jpg

I am looking at Ye Mad Puffin's list and singing "These are the whites I know, I know" KITH-style to myself

based on people I know, all young people are trans queer anarchist software developers who vape weed

also, furries

These are the people in your neighborhood, the people that you meet each day