Sea Devils And Die: GeroniMoffat's Doctor Who In The 2010s

Liked it despite it being a plotwise retread of 'The Beast Below' and that Torchwood episode about 'The Meat'. But Bill is great and Capaldi very much hitting his prime, and the vibe between them is lovely to watch.

I accidentally didn't cancel my Amz Prime trial, so I'm now catching up on Capaldi-Who. Not bad at all.

I'm going to put my guess in the hat that Chiwetel Ejiofor is still the best man for the job of the 13th Dr. (he was offered the 11th). I'd still prefer Swinton, who could pull off the requisite asexual yet charming aloofness.

That late-ish 11th Doctor getting everyone to forget he existed subplot never really went anywhere, did it?

...yes?

I'd be pretty stoked with Swinton, but isn't she kinda of a big movie star? I don't think the actors who've played The Doctor before have ever been as internationally famous as her.

I remember with the 11th doctor, something happened so that he undid the memory wipe from the Dalek hive mind... I don't remember how/why everyone else began to remember him though.

the big name rumours seem to exist purely to generate click revenue for shitty new sites tbh. capaldi was known but he wasn't exactly hollywood-famous.

This is a show for children. The viewers they're explaining the basics to are watching it for the first time, and weren't alive 12 years ago.

― (±\ PLO;;;;;;; Style (sic), Monday, 1 May 2017 10:34 (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

but the old episodes are available, and catch-up videos/webpages are everywhere, and kids talk about stuff. it's not like they have to wait for repeats like we did.

immediately reminded of Louis CK's bit: "black people can't fuck with time machines!"

Is this the first time that a mainstream sci-fi thing has acknowledged this? Not that I want to hand Moffat any trophies for this, it's been a cliché in online discourse/stand-up for years.

Moffat didn't write this - Sarah Dollard did.

And tbf a very difficult thing to do in a kid's TV show, despite my grumblings upthread about making it a side-line to the monster. I don't actually know how you'd handle early 19th century British attitudes to black people in a kid's TV show.

but the old episodes are available, and catch-up videos/webpages are everywhere, and kids talk about stuff. it's not like they have to wait for repeats like we did.

The old episodes total about …7,000 minutes of viewing? A 7-year-old sitting down to watch an episode of a TV show with their dad should not be expected to do SEVEN THOUSAND MINUTES of homework beforehand, just because you’ve been watching since the 1980s.

The joke of the first episode’s title this year is carried out in the intent. Any new viewer SHOULD be able to sit down this year and start watching, and pick up what’s going on. Any lapsed viewer or casual viewer also generally should – this is specifically a broad-audience family programme, of which every single scrap of research shows that the majority of viewers do not catch every episode during a season.

These three episodes are not telling stories about our old pal Theta Sigma, agent for the CIA and bearer of the Cloak of Rassilon and angry god of the Sevateem and Ambassador to Peladon and Valeyard-to-be and Scientific Advisor to the United Nations Intelligence Taskforce and former Merlin and recalcitrant child of the House Of Lungbarrow having adventures in the manner that we recognise. They’re telling the story of Bill Potts getting to know her mysterious uni tutor and patron’s secrets, going on adventures with him, and solving problems herself.

If brown-skinned English kids who haven’t watched endless hours of The Adventures Of Whiteman, a show that started years before they were born, but see Pearl Mackie in a trailer and want to watch her show, that’s a positive. Them being able to actually follow the show they’re watching is a concomitant positive.

With The Eleventh Hour, Moffatt wrote at least the third-best NEW DOCTOR, START HERE episode in the series’ history. As of this week, he’s also followed more than a year off the air (more or less), and the longest-running companion in 52 years, with three weeks of a soft reboot built on the RTD model of meeting ep/far future ep/Earth past ep, specifically to be accessible to new viewers or those who’d gone rambly during the last few years. BRING ON THE KIDS AND GRANS imo.

Is it bad that I got to "Sevateem" in sic's post and stopped reading so I could do a happy dance?

yeah but you are a Tesh

I can't even get mad about that, I'm 100% Tesh

If Missy is in the vault this might be typical Moffat 'Wishmastery' - giving me what I wanted (Missy in every episode) but in the complete opposite way of how I wanted it.

endless hours of The Adventures Of Whiteman

thx

The White Guardiman

The old episodes total about …7,000 minutes of viewing? A 7-year-old sitting down to watch an episode of a TV show with their dad should not be expected to do SEVEN THOUSAND MINUTES of homework beforehand, just because you’ve been watching since the 1980s.

i mean you even quoted the bit where i said "catch-up videos/webpages are everywhere". also i seriously doubt anyone's going to sit through all 24 minutes of the hand of fear pt 3 hoping to learn how old the doctor is in 2017 (he said it twice in this episode iirc).

that said, i do see the logic behind your overall point but i still wish they'd stop doing it.

my vague 7,000 minutes estimate was only for the new series btw! (bcz you said reboot/12 yrs) and catch-up webpages are even more like homework. send them to the library to read Jean-Marc L'Officier and Peter Haining, why don't you.

that said, i do see the logic behind your overall point but i still wish they'd stop doing it.

if you'd rather swap the delightful extended "Bill figures out the TARDIS" riff for idk, whatever Nyssa said on her first trip or s/t, just hold tight for the glorious Chibnall era of brute functionality I guess

7,000 minutes sounds like so many minutes

I think Nyssa said "where's my father?"

Hand of Fear is a pleasure to watch because it features the pinnacle of Sarah Jane Smith wardrobe choices, the triple star overalls.

It's a strange place to do an intro for new viewers. Same doctor, same showrunner. I suppose they just took a year off, but still.

This episode felt aimed at younger children than usual, which wasn't a bad thing. Straightforward, fast paced plot, very likable lead performances (Capaldi looking very alien these days), a fun pantomime baddie in Nathan Barley. The kids were annoying though.

It's a strange place to do an intro for new viewers. Same doctor, same showrunner. I suppose they just took a year off, but still.

Sic's very reasonable point was that every year will bring a cohort of kids just old enough to take an interest in it, more so after a year off!

I sort of agree that this was aimed at younger children aside from the whole "child murdered in front of the Doctor as he leaps to save his sonic screwdriver" scene

very likable lead performances (Capaldi looking very alien these days)

his very first shot (in reaction to the elephant) was the best part of the whole episode

Sic's very reasonable point was that every year will bring a cohort of kids just old enough to take an interest in it

Yep, my eight-year-old niece started watching it this season, as did my sister, who hasn't seen it since Peter Davison era. They both liked Smile - don't think they'd have enjoyed "The Magician's Apprentice" very much. (I didn't either, speaking as someone who knows what a Lungbarrow is.)

I'd personally much rather the show prioritised pleasing pre-teens over adult whovians.

first one i've really enjoyed for a while. excellent and weird from beginning to end.

Also just read this - Doctor Who in Binaural Sound.

Just had a quick listen on headphones, and i didn't think it was really noticeable, but then it's hard to tell without the ability to compare what it sounds like without it. Obviously seemed most effective with noises off. It did highlight again how good this episode is - the part sound plays reminded me slightly of The Stone Tape, or Peter Strickland's experiments in film sound as a space. The binaural aspect (even as a notion) works with the idea of the fabric of the house itself being malevolent, and surrounding and sealing you in. So ok, it doesn't really push any boundaries there, but I think the idea is present anyway.

xxp- maybe it needs splitting in to two shows, one for kids, one for the real heads, with constant callbacks to Sea Devils, Bessie, Meddling Monk etc

really, really enjoyed this one. david suchet's performance was fantastic

Yeah, I thought the whole ensemble worked really well. It was a really well-paced/structured episode.

starting to wish capaldi had been paired with bill right from the start - they are so good together

My only real complaint is the initial plot Maguffin. They actively make a set of six looking to rent together ("Bill, meet your new housemates") then complain it's impossible to find somewhere decent for six to rent together.

But this is the best TARDIS crew since the reboot, no question. The episodes haven't been perfect, but have been very entertaining.

Once again this felt rushed and badly executed, and it didn't make much sense. The interplay between the Doctor and Bill is what's keeping this series fresh.

it felt neither of those things. what an odd reaction!

That was good - unheimlich. Wood people. Old Hammer Horror landlord (in the right makeup and acting style to 'invoke' it spookily).

Attempts to depict 'students' on TV are always bullshit so I ignored that bit of it.

Might have preferred it if they'd gone straight for the 'Dryads' theme (this would have fit in better with Hammer Horror landlord man via The Great God Pan etc) rather than weird woodlice but you know what, I'm glad they didn't have to explain where the lice came from or what they were, name them, etc.

Another 'swarm' monster like the nanobots ... is this a theme?

Ah it was David Suchet! Of course it was.

My 'that was good' includes DavidM's 'rushed and badly executed' response, I should say. Like always the story moves too quickly with no build-up or savouring, none of the 'students' were real characters and all were too squeaky clean. The creaks and noises in the walls were a bit too obviously malevolent and hammy. Etc, etc. Thing is though they are in this series mostly resolving stories within one episode and that just seems to be the format, which is why it moves too quickly

Great atmospherics, but I agree the plot felt rushed and didn't make much sense. Like, if the magic lice could eat anyone at any time, why did the evil landlord always provide them with exactly 6 students and exactly 20 years apart? Wouldn't six students gone missing at the same time have caused a massive investigation, and wouldn't most of them given their parents etc. their new address, so the cops would quickly come knocking on the house door? Why didn't the landlord just kidnap some random people every now and then and bring them for the lice to eat, thus drawing much less suspicion on house?

Also, I haven't tried the binaural thing, but I do have surround speakers, and it seems they put more effort into the surround mix of this episode than they normally do. In the scene where the knocks were heard all around the house, they were also coming from every corner of my living room. Quite creepy and effective!

Like, if the magic lice could eat anyone at any time, why did the evil landlord always provide them with exactly 6 students and exactly 20 years apart?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C_LN4V4XcAEPF1K.jpg

(from former DWM writer Clayton Hickman on twitter)

sidebar: anyone watching Class, Whovian high school spinoff airing after on BBC America ? Quite enjoying it so far, the kids are all great. Not Misfits level great but at least v watchable & fun (& gross)

Watched the first two eps (shown back-to-back originally), my watching pals didn't bother going further. I made it about ten minutes into the third before noping out.

But the third one was the best of the season so far!

Felt a bit off that the 1977 and 1957 students didn't get to come back to life at the end (and surely if they had, the doc could've just dropped them home at the times they disappeared, solving the "why wasn't this house in the news already?" question) but yeah this was great fun and I think just the right level of creepy for kid viewers (which is something this show has got wrong too often over the last couple of years).

Wishing I'd avoided trailers for this season though, I'd have preferred to have no clues regarding the vault contents.

Presumably it takes 20 years to work through whatever the students are converted to so their constituent parts are used up.

I haven't seen any trailers or read online speculation, but after the latest episode's stinger, it's not very hard to guess, is it? We know it's a humanoid (since it can play the piano), and apparently it finds the death of six students hilarious (since it switches from "Für Elise" to a happy melody after hearing about that). The Doctor is in friendly terms with it, yet the it needs to be kept locked in a vault. It has to be some previously established character, because otherwise its identity wouldn't need to be kept a mystery. And in an earlier episode it knocked four times. So yeah, there's pretty much just one character who fits the bill.

(xmessage)

Yup: Adam