I just bought "Fresh" by Sly & the Family Stone and . . .

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Procrasti

-natin'

― sweet earth flying (sweet earth flying), Friday, 16 December 2005 20:25 (eighteen years ago) link

this is such a great forum

― oops (Oops), Friday, 16 December 2005 20:28 (eighteen years ago) link

and people wonder why so few girls post here!

― oops (Oops), Friday, 16 December 2005 20:28 (eighteen years ago) link

oops - not sure what you mean. If you don't like it, or prefer Riot, that's cool. I just don't see how you can call the instrumentation "blah" ...it's so tight and complex. If it doesn't grab you, it doesn't grab you...but...blah?

― sweet earth flying (sweet earth flying), Friday, 16 December 2005 20:31 (eighteen years ago) link

I'm sure it's largely a case of it being (no pun intended) fresh sounding when it came out, but since then that sound has been done to death. So when I hear it know it's like someone set the studio to "generic funk" and Fresh was cranked out. Though, like I said, I do like (and GET) Riot, whose rhythms and melodies seem much more unique and memorable than those on Fresh.

― oops (Oops), Friday, 16 December 2005 20:36 (eighteen years ago) link

After the music covered in the '70 Greatest Hits collection, and the bitter negation of that music with There's a Riot Goin' On, Fresh feels like a derivative smoothing out of what came before, but not so thorough that you can't hear contempt coming out of a corner every now and then. Some people swear by it, but apart from "Que Sera Sera" I can't feel any affection or awe for Fresh at all.

that fairly well sums up my feelings, too.

― oops (Oops), Friday, 16 December 2005 20:38 (eighteen years ago) link

I guess Mr. Daddino just doesn't get it either.

― oops (Oops), Friday, 16 December 2005 20:39 (eighteen years ago) link

I dunno, I think it still sounds pretty fresh. The melodies on tracks like Frisky and In Time are so snaky and oblique (but still catchy and memorable)...with these harmonies that occasionally veer into subtle dissonance...it's far from generic funk--though I'll agree with you it does drift into some typical pentatonic noodling on Thankful and Let Me Have It All...But the sheer funkiness and mathematical precision still makes it original...I don't think it sounds like much of anything else from its time. All those cheap drum machine patterns shuffling under everything...So many layers of rhythm. It's magical. Of course Riot is too, but without Family Affair, Riot wouldn't even stand a chance against Fresh.

― sweet earth flying (sweet earth flying), Friday, 16 December 2005 20:44 (eighteen years ago) link

I'm sure it's largely a case of it being (no pun intended) fresh sounding when it came out, but since then that sound has been done to death.

i think its a case of you having no soul!

― howell huser (chaki), Friday, 16 December 2005 20:50 (eighteen years ago) link

I do like In Time. It being the opening track may handicap---for me--- what follows. Apart from Que Sera Sera, the rest of the album isn't as distinctive, and all the songs seem to be structured similarly.

xpost do you mean soul in the Motown sense or in the Grim Reaper sense? cause I'm with you on the latter.

― oops (Oops), Friday, 16 December 2005 20:54 (eighteen years ago) link

Chaki OTM.

So when I hear it know it's like someone set the studio to "generic funk" and Fresh was cranked out

What strikes me is that despite the fact that hundreds of nominally similar-sounding albums have been made since, Fresh still sounds like the best jazz-funk album ever. It sounds like what the Headhunters were going for when Mike Clark was in the band, except more thought-out, darker and with amazing vocals instead of keyboard jams.

― Jordan (Jordan), Friday, 16 December 2005 21:02 (eighteen years ago) link

Jordan, not to derail the thread, but I think that Mike Clark must be a pretty good teacher, because years ago when I used to hang out at Drummers Collective, all the best guys were his students.

― k/l (Ken L), Friday, 16 December 2005 21:05 (eighteen years ago) link

I'll bet he is. Both gigs I've seen him play were killer (once with Fred Wesley, Larry Goldings, and Bill Summers (!), and once with some New Orleans guys). That he looks like a high school math teacher makes it even better.

― Jordan (Jordan), Friday, 16 December 2005 21:11 (eighteen years ago) link

his instructional video with paul jackson is great fun to watch

― howell huser (chaki), Friday, 16 December 2005 21:15 (eighteen years ago) link

ok see i loathe jazz-funk, so there's the problem.

― oops (Oops), Friday, 16 December 2005 21:19 (eighteen years ago) link

haha i like how chaki is OTM for saying my opinion is untrue.
I think I'd rather listen to Thrust than Fresh. but I'm very picky when it comes to vocals.

― oops (Oops), Friday, 16 December 2005 21:22 (eighteen years ago) link

You loathe jazz-funk but you like Thrust?

― Jordan (Jordan), Friday, 16 December 2005 21:23 (eighteen years ago) link

hey! no one's mentioned A Whole New Thing! sheesh, what a crazily brilliant and underrated record!

sly's catalog desperately desperately needs some serious remastering/deluxe edition treatment. Riot is still in that lame packaging (at least in the US)...and they left the title track off the cd!

and anyone know what happened to that live set that was supposed to come out a couple years ago? did sly personally nix it?

― Lawrence the Looter (Lawrence the Looter), Friday, 16 December 2005 21:27 (eighteen years ago) link

haha i like how chaki is OTM for saying my opinion is untrue

ive never been more otm

― howell huser (chaki), Friday, 16 December 2005 21:29 (eighteen years ago) link

didn't say I liked it. there's a couple drum parts and other bits that are interesting though. haven't listened to it for a few years, back when i hate a higher tolerance for the stuff.

― oops (Oops), Friday, 16 December 2005 21:29 (eighteen years ago) link

haha i mean had

― oops (Oops), Friday, 16 December 2005 21:30 (eighteen years ago) link

dude if you dont like jazz funk then you wont like fresh.

― howell huser (chaki), Friday, 16 December 2005 21:31 (eighteen years ago) link

ok i'm skimming through Thrust and I take it all back. Gimme Fresh.
so Riot couldn't be considered jazz funk?

― oops (Oops), Friday, 16 December 2005 21:33 (eighteen years ago) link

riot is lo fi funk with jazz elements.

― howell huser (chaki), Friday, 16 December 2005 21:35 (eighteen years ago) link

Fresh pushes so many of my musical buttons so well, it just hits me in the gut. I guess I'm a jazz douchebag, though.

I've never heard any of the records after Fresh.

― Jordan (Jordan), Friday, 16 December 2005 21:38 (eighteen years ago) link

"Let's all shout and shimmy because, without no doubt, THESE are the Jazz DBs!"

― k/l (Ken L), Friday, 16 December 2005 21:43 (eighteen years ago) link

Yeah I'm a jazz douchebag too; maybe that explains everything...

― sweet earth flying (sweet earth flying), Friday, 16 December 2005 21:47 (eighteen years ago) link

either you have the funk or you dont. its something you're born with. all we can do is pity those that dont feel such albums as fresh and thrust.

― howell huser (chaki), Friday, 16 December 2005 21:48 (eighteen years ago) link

i pity myself for not liking them too!
but if you're using these as paragons of funkiness, i think you've got more problems than i do.

― oops (Oops), Friday, 16 December 2005 21:51 (eighteen years ago) link

either you have the jazzfunk or you dont. its something you're born with. all we can do is pity those that dont feel such albums as fresh and thrust.

― oops (Oops), Friday, 16 December 2005 21:54 (eighteen years ago) link

whateva, sir nose.

― howell huser (chaki), Friday, 16 December 2005 21:55 (eighteen years ago) link

I think Howell and Oops have some tension that runs beyond Sly albums...hmmm...

― sweet earth flying (sweet earth flying), Friday, 16 December 2005 21:55 (eighteen years ago) link

quit f'n the f.

― howell huser (chaki), Friday, 16 December 2005 22:00 (eighteen years ago) link

I've never heard any of the records after Fresh.

The fact that Sony hasn't reissued them inside the US is a fucking joke.

― Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Friday, 16 December 2005 23:40 (eighteen years ago) link

In that regardless of what you think of them—and I enjoy most of them some—they deserve to be available for chrissakes...

― Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Friday, 16 December 2005 23:41 (eighteen years ago) link

"and they left the title track off the cd!"

this is not a mistake. There *is* no title track - the tracklisting is intentionally misleading.

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Saturday, 17 December 2005 00:02 (eighteen years ago) link

its just silence right?

― howell huser (chaki), Saturday, 17 December 2005 00:04 (eighteen years ago) link

yep. (albeit not 4'33 of silence)

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Saturday, 17 December 2005 00:05 (eighteen years ago) link

without Family Affair, Riot wouldn't even stand a chance against Fresh.

absurd

but if you're using these as paragons of funkiness, i think you've got more problems than i do.

enlighten us then funky messiah

― walter kranz (walterkranz), Saturday, 17 December 2005 00:14 (eighteen years ago) link

without Family Affair, Riot wouldn't even stand a chance against Fresh.

absurd

OK OK. That's a little absurd. I got a little carried away with my love for Fresh :-)

― sweet earth flying (sweet earth flying), Saturday, 17 December 2005 00:33 (eighteen years ago) link

enlighten us then funky messiah

Yeah, for real. If Fresh isn't a paragon of funkiness, I don't know what is. Whether you like the album or not...you have to admit it's about as funky as it gets.

― sweet earth flying (sweet earth flying), Saturday, 17 December 2005 00:36 (eighteen years ago) link

if i thought it was as funky as it gets i'd like the album! (i don't DISlike it). i thought it's already been established that it's jass funk anyway.

― oops (Oops), Saturday, 17 December 2005 00:44 (eighteen years ago) link

what are funk albums you like, oops

― howell huser (chaki), Saturday, 17 December 2005 00:47 (eighteen years ago) link

Riot!

― oops (Oops), Saturday, 17 December 2005 00:48 (eighteen years ago) link

i like that one too

― howell huser (chaki), Saturday, 17 December 2005 00:51 (eighteen years ago) link

(i like jb, the jbs, the meters, fatback band, curtis mayfield, etc. most reggae is just as funky as funk, too.)

― oops (Oops), Saturday, 17 December 2005 00:55 (eighteen years ago) link

most reggae? ok thats just not true. people always said you were nuts but i guess i never really noticed.

― howell huser (chaki), Saturday, 17 December 2005 00:59 (eighteen years ago) link

yeah you're right. no funky bass or drums in reggae. or keyboards. what was i thinking. thanks chaki.

― oops (Oops), Saturday, 17 December 2005 01:01 (eighteen years ago) link

you said "most"

― howell huser (chaki), Saturday, 17 December 2005 01:01 (eighteen years ago) link

maybe you meant to say. "most roots reggae (early 60's to mid 80's) contains syncopated rhythms." yeah. thats what you meant to say.

― howell huser (chaki), Saturday, 17 December 2005 01:03 (eighteen years ago) link

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