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Also, what MattS said.

― Scik Mouthy, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 15:48 (seventeen years ago) link

it's weird how short the thread was. these days it would be about 800 posts, and funnier.

― That one guy that quit, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 15:48 (seventeen years ago) link

assuredly not funnier

― lex pretend, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 15:49 (seventeen years ago) link

http://noisydecentgraphics.typepad.com/design/images/hovis.jpg

Old ILX, yesterday

― Noodle Vague, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 15:50 (seventeen years ago) link

i forgot to say it would be 80% zings at lex's expense.

― That one guy that quit, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 15:51 (seventeen years ago) link

The thing that really beefs me with Carmody is that he occasionally still does mention me and Dom by name on his blog or wherever, FOUR YEARS LATER. I've emailed him about this and never got a reply. He wont communicate to try and resolve things but he will occasionally use my name in a very negative sense; it may be infrequent but I've got paid work as a writer from a national newspaper and other publications; he's slandering me (or is it libel when written?) with no basis and on a professional level this is a concern. Admittedly I would guess that bugger-all people know who he is or read his blog, but it's the principle of the thing.

― Scik Mouthy, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 15:51 (seventeen years ago) link

bucketofwater.jpg

― Marcello Carlin, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 15:53 (seventeen years ago) link

i agree w/ you 100%, nick. i don't know how to answer your concerns -- though if robin's comments haven't harmed you professionally yet, there may not be much that you CAN do. (i'm not familiar with british defamation laws, other than that they are stricter than they are over here in america.)

― Eisbaer, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 15:55 (seventeen years ago) link

Maybe he's waiting for you to apologise for Sharpeville first, Nick.

― Noodle Vague, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 15:56 (seventeen years ago) link

Quit guy: I think it was locked.

― Groke, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 15:57 (seventeen years ago) link

wtf re; Sharpeville?

― Scik Mouthy, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 15:57 (seventeen years ago) link

JOKE! (Re: ludicrousness of BNP comment)

― Noodle Vague, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 15:58 (seventeen years ago) link

Hahaha, yes, I just about saw the funny side when Wikipedia opened.

― Scik Mouthy, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 15:58 (seventeen years ago) link

I fell out with Robin some time ago for reasons which need not be of concern here but nearly everyone here including myself has done as bad or worse so let's all calm down.

― Marcello Carlin, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 15:59 (seventeen years ago) link

southall: agreed carmody's behaviour is odd and maybe hurtful but... that noelly g quote is so loaded, it's not just saying chris martin is a crap pop star is it? check out his later comments about bloc party and kele o's very otm response in this months uncut. i'll try and find the quote.

― acrobat, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 16:17 (seventeen years ago) link

Kele Okereke has retorted back to Oasis' Liam Gallagher's jibes that Bloc Party look like a 'University Challenge team' by labelling them 'stupid Luddites.'

In an interview with Ben Marshall in this month's Uncut magazine, Okereke says: "Why is it bad to look like you might have been to university? why is it bad to better yourself? It's all about the weird way in which this country chooses to view the working clases. It really is daft to reinforce the idea that there is something cool about being dumb.

When asked if Oasis deserved to win the BRIT Award for 'Outstanding Contribution To Music,' Okereke replies:
"Absolutely not. I think Oasis are the most overrated and pernicious band of all time. They have had a totally negative and dangerous impact upon the state of British music. They have made stupidity hip. They claim to be inspired by The Beatles but - and this so saddens me - they have failed to grasp that The Beatles were about constant change and evolution. Oasis are repetitive luddites."

We await Liam's response...

― acrobat, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 16:18 (seventeen years ago) link

Absolutely not. I think Oasis are the most overrated and pernicious band of all time. They have had a totally negative and dangerous impact upon the state of British music

KELE OKEREKE FULLY OTM

he should carry on saying things like this, instead of 'singing'

― lex pretend, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 16:21 (seventeen years ago) link

I can go along with that. Shame BP made such a shitty second record by bowing to trends set by Oasis (on a sonic level).

― Scik Mouthy, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 16:22 (seventeen years ago) link

"dangerous?"

i hate bloc party.

― That one guy that quit, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 16:22 (seventeen years ago) link

Kele's mostly right. I take issue with "better yourself". But he's responding to the stupid twat when the only answer to the question should've been "Noel who?"

― Noodle Vague, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 16:22 (seventeen years ago) link

Kele's one of the few people to have written worse lyrics than Noel though and I actually *like* Bloc Party.

― Matt DC, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 16:28 (seventeen years ago) link

Confusing Noel and Liam, whether intentional or not, is disingenious.

The difference between Martin and Okereke is that Martin has no pretention (in his music) of being intelligent or educated; for someone with a degree he writes embarassingly imbecilic and platitudinous lyrics. He has precious little concept of innovation in music. Okereke may be fucking it up, but at least he's trying to push things. Coldplay are closer to Oasis than they are to Bloc Party. And Bloc Party are (now) closer to Coldplay than they ought to be.

x-post - Kele's lyrics can be terrible, granted, but at least, again, he's TRYING. Martin's lyrics are abominable empty-headed nothings.

― Scik Mouthy, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 16:29 (seventeen years ago) link

oasis do shitty stock 'good times' indie, bloc party do shitty stock 'arty' indie.

― That one guy that quit, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 16:30 (seventeen years ago) link

(I wasn't being disingenous, I just misread the original post)

― Matt DC, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 16:35 (seventeen years ago) link

chris martin's lyrics are the best of the three! they're not, like, good or anything, but i don't see anything particularly wrong in vague, generalist, not especially profound clichés which allow the listener to map their own experiences on to the song - you can see exactly how people might find a coldplay song personally resonant. i don't but there are parallels with how i listen to, i dunno, someone like alicia keys, whose lyrics follow much the same form (but she does it much much better).

gallagher/okereke lyrics are really ghastly, one for trying too hard, the other for not trying at all. nevertheless okereke is right here.

― lex pretend, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 16:36 (seventeen years ago) link

i think pushing kele o as some kind of innovator or even "arty" is pushing it but for all his faults the reason bloc party do seem to connect strongly with a lot of people is teh emos. i.e. they are the band that'll save your life for some kids, but then so are coldplay. nick sure you can hate on coldplay but denying that boneheaded platitudes can't be taken to the heart seems wrong. coldplay are a band seemingly designed for the listener to write their own meanings upon. bloc party are just slightly more targeted. i think in a political sense thou chris martin is bad thou, he seems to do that "i'll back who ever 'll get the job done" geldof style "pragmatism" which i feel will lead us, as it seeps into the wider culture, into a cameron government.

― acrobat, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 16:39 (seventeen years ago) link

Cute little brit indie bands might be conservative musically but do you really consider them conservative politically? Are they not classic late-capitalism liberals to a tee?

― frankie driscoll, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 16:44 (seventeen years ago) link

i think in a political sense thou chris martin is bad thou, he seems to do that "i'll back who ever 'll get the job done" geldof style "pragmatism" which i feel will lead us, as it seeps into the wider culture, into a cameron government.

-- acrobat, Tuesday, April 17, 2007 7:39 PM (6 minutes ago)

bit of a leap from one thing to another! also blair's catchphrase is "what works" in re pfi etc. so martin could go either way.

― That one guy that quit, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 16:48 (seventeen years ago) link

i mean your perceived sense of martin's politics will somehow seep into the voting choices of the people out there -- really? i doubt even a lennon could have that effect.

― That one guy that quit, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 16:49 (seventeen years ago) link

And why is conservatism in music so bad? Anti-conservatism is the preserve of the individual..and the fragmentation of society

Conservatism in music can be a good thing..without conservatism you would have no genres, no continuity, no shared culture, no framework, no community, no belonging

― frankie driscoll, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 16:49 (seventeen years ago) link

in britain conservatism means destroying communities in favour of the atomized individual. most conservatives are too stupidd to realize this.

― That one guy that quit, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 16:51 (seventeen years ago) link

The difference between Martin and Okereke is that Martin has no pretention (in his music) of being intelligent or educated; for someone with a degree he writes embarassingly imbecilic and platitudinous lyrics. He has precious little concept of innovation in music.

But, Nick, how do you judge intentions? For all we know Chris Martin thinks he's writing The Waste Land.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 16:51 (seventeen years ago) link

i think the lex is right re. martin. he does what he does and as a non-fan of all three bands, coldplay's lyrics are less grating -- simply because they're barely there at all -- than bloc party's or oasis's.

― That one guy that quit, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 16:56 (seventeen years ago) link

If he does, Alfred, then he's a complete and utter moron.

― Scik Mouthy, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 17:26 (seventeen years ago) link

I'd posit that Martin's enunciation makes his vocals and thus his lyrics too prominant for me to ignore. Okereke's on the new BP album, too. With Liam (and Noel) these days I am so astonished that either of them bothers to sing at all when they each honk like a throat-cancer victim with asthma that I don't notice the lyrics. Also I just don't fucking listen to their turgid unmusical shite anymore.

― Scik Mouthy, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 17:30 (seventeen years ago) link

"Whatever", that was a good song.

― Dom Passantino, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 17:32 (seventeen years ago) link

heh enrique i'm not saying chris martin himself is influencing vast swathes of people but summat like live 8 and all that apolitical vaguely self-agrandizing humanism must have some meaning, some effect. whether it'll go all the way to the ballot box who knows. maybe it's a positon beyond mere voting. that's a bit kpunk innit.

― acrobat, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 18:51 (seventeen years ago) link

it already happened when labour decided to ditch being labour in the mid-nineties and natural tories voted for them because they were embarrassed to follow their true calling.

― That one guy that quit, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 20:05 (seventeen years ago) link

It would be interesting to see Kele Okereke explain exactly why recycling The Beatles is worse than recycling Gang Of Four.

― Geir Hongro, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 20:09 (seventeen years ago) link

(Other than Kele Okereke's own personal taste probably suggests Gang Of Four is a better band)

― Geir Hongro, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 20:10 (seventeen years ago) link

in britain conservatism means destroying communities in favour of the atomized individual.

In politics, yes. This has absolutely zero to do with conservatism in music though.

― Geir Hongro, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 20:10 (seventeen years ago) link

Did anyone see Stelfox's "Epiphanies" piece on the back page of the Wire this month?
"Real music listened to by Real people" - laughable.

― bidfurd, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 20:37 (seventeen years ago) link

no. please tell more.

― acrobat, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 20:56 (seventeen years ago) link

"In politics, yes. This has absolutely zero to do with conservatism in music though.

-- Geir Hongro, Tuesday, April 17, 2007 11:10 PM (Yesterday)"

yeah i know. i don't think political conservatism is that easily tracked to musical conservatism. both terms are woolly anyway, and music's relationship with technology (which isn't necessarily un-conservative) makes it even more complicated.

― That one guy that quit, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 22:02 (seventeen years ago) link

Cultural conservatism mightn't be directly trackable to political conservatism. But they sure do wear similar shoes.

― Noodle Vague, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 22:16 (seventeen years ago) link

"Cultural conservatism" seems like a very, very wooly term to me.

― Scik Mouthy, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 22:23 (seventeen years ago) link

Okay, longhand during boozy inaccuracy. Fear of "complicated" ideas feels reactionary to me.

― Noodle Vague, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 22:28 (seventeen years ago) link

Cultural conservatism mightn't be directly trackable to political conservatism. But they sure do wear similar shoes.

But then, recent political conservatism is considerably more about economical liberalism and capitalism than it is about cultural conservatism.

― Geir Hongro, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 23:54 (seventeen years ago) link

Not on ILX.

― Noodle Vague, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 23:56 (seventeen years ago) link

ILX (or at least ILM) is about music, not politics.

― Geir Hongro, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 00:36 (seventeen years ago) link

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