I want to stop screwing around and actually learn to play the guitar

The note A shouldn't create a problem, I don't think. It's part of the G major scale and part of three diatonic chords in G major (A minor, D major, and F# diminished).

Tim is correct. If the chorus is in F, you don't need to use the C major collection, even in the strictest 18th century diatonic harmony exercise. b^7 is a common borrowed pitch (modal variant) in any case, even in classical music, let alone 20th century popular music. (Nearly every blues song includes it over the tonic.) "God Only Knows" begins on b^7!

Sund4r (or anyone), you ever hear anyone talk about a "multi-plagal progression" or "secondary plagal progression?" I think that's a pretty common use of the bVII chord, to go from bVII to IV, and that would be a secondary plagal progression.

Similar of course to how we talk about secondary dominants.

Feel like somebody, like me, mentioned that on the theory thread.

Here: Rolling Music Theory Thread

This guy calls it (chorus of the Kinks' "Celluloid Heroes") a IV/IV chord.

http://johndorhauer.com/4-for-iv-part-i-secondary-plagal-progressions/

xp oh nice!

Better yet he calls the C chord in "Hey Joe" (key of E) a IV/IV/IV/IV chord!

I'm pretty sure there was an MTO article about this. I'll look for it.

Sorry, the paper on the other thread I was referring to was first linked here: Rolling Music Theory Thread
and is Rolling Music Theory Thread. I believe you are quite familiar with the author's work.

Aarrgh: http://www.academia.edu/1435121/Triadic_Modal_and_Pentatonic_Patterns_in_Rock_Music

Ah, those are good. It is also touched on Moore, Allan. "The So-Called 'Flattened Seventh' in Rock". Popular Music. Vol. 14, No. 2 (May, 1995), pp. 185-201. Cambridge University Press.

Ha, I bought his book during the heyday of those discussions and he mentions that paper several times.

You seem to be over-thinking this guitar playing thing. Are you a keyboard player by any chance?
Ha yes, how did you guess.

Which one of his books, Blecchs? Analysing Popular Music?

Think the proper title is Song Means, but yeah, that one.

Those are different books - the one Sund4r mentions is a collection with numerous authors.

Okay, start again. Not that one, but the other one whose subtitle is similar to that one's title.

Trying to learn "never going back again". The guy in the video tutorial says it's fairly advanced fingerpicking, well I have a few fingerpicking tunes under my belt and I'm not finding it a problem. Then he says the saving grace is that the left hand is pretty easy. Damn, is my left hand that bad? I can't even make the shapes cleanly,

... let alone have any hope of switching between them quickly enough. Posting this not out of any vain hope for magic hints & tips, but if I do manage to crack it, as proof that persistence pays off.

When I first started learning about bar chords, I thought for sure I would never be able to play something like 'Wave of Mutilation' but the more I tried it, the easier it got. It doesn't happen in the span of one or two practice sessions, but it'll come to you the more you familiarize yourself with the tune.

A smarter man than myself once said, "If you think you've gone too far, just keep going." And I find that's usually a good rule of thumb.

"Never Going Back Again" is fairly challenging, I'd say. Definitely a few notches up from "Blackbird" or "Freight Train". I don't know why he'd say that the left hand part is easy; it's less intuitive than e.g. Zeppelin's acoustic songs. I recommend using a metronome really strictly and slowing it way the fuck down, maybe starting at less than half the original tempo.

Sorry if that's the kind of hint you weren't looking for. It's just the only I was able to learn or teach it.

yeah I do take it slow, although not with a metronome.

my barres are ok for chugging out chords but show their limitations when it comes to fingerstyle. hardest thing in ngba though is one that stretches over four frets, even with a capo on 4 that's ahem a stretch.

damn this flagging app keeps posting too early.

... & the one where I have to fret the top two strings with my little finger, which is apparently too puny and weak.

Pretty difficult tune tbh.

Pretty difficult tune tbh

Aye but I think if I can't get it now I never will. (Where "now' is a period of weeks, probably months.)

A smarter man than myself once said, "If you think you've gone too far, just keep going." And I find that's usually a good rule of thumb

True, I would add "until you know you've gone too far", you can bite off more than you can chew.

So did you stop screwing around and really learn to play the guitar?

If the answer is yes, be sure to come over to Fingerstyle Guitar: Can You Do It?

I quit screwing around and very slowly learnt to actually play the guitar to a standard where I'm happy to play by myself in front of the TV, still terrified to play in front of anyone else. Now I have a kid and very little time to actually learn to play the guitar.

xp I will, shortly. or longly.

maybe it's an unhelpful or self-deprecating distinction but I feel like I learnt to play songs on the guitar rather than actually learning to play the guitar? e.g. I don't do scales.

Same here.

The 13th chord shape is tough, yeah, but I don't recall if this is ever actually necessary?:

... & the one where I have to fret the top two strings with my little finger, which is apparently too puny and weak.

Are you thinking of the chorus? Is it not possible to use the 3rd finger for the B string and the 4th finger for the high E string?

I never paid a lot of attention to that tune, but there are two guitar tracks right?

xp that's slower for me to make but yeah definitely cleaner once I have. might be easier for me to work on the speed than idk lifting tiny dumbells with my little finger.

might be two on the record idk but you can do a v passable imitation with one.

what guide/tab sheet are you using? or none lol

https://youtu.be/_rLZ-LIx09I

I think I just hear one? Buckingham played it solo when I saw them. (Fairly close to this, and similarly, disappointingly slowed down). Based on a scan of Youtube live clips, he's been playing it with one guitar (using the same fingerings that I think ledge and I are using) since at least '92. This live version from '77 seems to be accompanied with acoustic bass, though, but I think it's actually a little fuller-sounding than the record.

2xp

According to recording assistant Cris Morris, this song took a while to record. Said Morris: "It was Lindsey's pet project, just two guitar tracks but he did it over and over again. In the end his vocal didn't quite match the guitar tracks so we had to slow them down a little."

http://www.songfacts.com/detail.php?id=15497

Bit weird though, why wouldn't the tracks be recorded at the same speed?

Key was too high for his voice?

he seems to manage when he's doing it live!

Interesting. I had assumed they just stereoized one guitar track on the album.

ahh drop d, no wonder i could never sound it out in standard tuning

Started using a metronome. Good tip! Feels like I'm screwing around just that little bit less.

Glad to hear it!

Are you barreling through the whole tune from beginning to end or looping little sections?

Bit of both, more of the latter. It's good to get a feel for how it all goes together but I know time is better spent focusing on the trickier parts.