At what point did Jimmy Page realize his band was now on a downward arc?

it was only a matter of time before Led Zeppelin tore us apart. and weirdly without Bill Magill

ILM has a passionate Stones fanbase which doesn't let offhanded dismissive remarks slide. As it should.

Is this what happens to the brain when one overexposes themselves to Animal Collective!? Fucking hell...

Anyway, as much as I have a lot of time for the Stones, if I had to choose between the Stones and Zeppelin, it'd be Zeppelin every time. I prefer the way they play, I prefer the sound that those four people make and I prefer the way their records sound.

Upper mississippi OTM about Sabbath too, again, as much as I love Sabbath, their "evilness" always seemed a little cartoony and theatrical.

I've got a secret for you guys: Black Sabbath were secretly a Christian rock band. (Granted, their Christianity was that of terrified medieval peasants, but still.)

Yeah, there's definitely a couple of things that nod in that direction on Master of Reality...

a coupla things? I remember being 16 and confused af when I read the lyrics to "After Forever" inside my dad's vinyl.

it's such a drag that 'After Forever' (their best riff) is Geezer Butler evangelizing via Ozzy

terrified medieval peasants

I know Aston is bad but I'm not sure it's quite that bad.

xxpost:

Ha, that's the main one I was thinking of!

at 16 I thought they were being sarcastic but then wondered if anybody would really be sarcastic across an entire album about something like that

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-F_iWG5gAclE/UCkgtL9cxbI/AAAAAAAAXdM/-JGTNnK9XNE/s1600/iommi.jpg

Yeah, Black Sabbath were paranoid as fuck about "evil vibes maaaaan" ... 'tis why band members started wearing crosses, allegedly to ward off "evil spirits", and why Iommi punched Ozzy in the face for ripping up Bibles in hotel rooms. Drugs, man.

Well the Christian thing was sort of key for Sabbath's dismissal among chief critics at the time no? Lester Bangs was maybe the first one to explicitly call them a Christian band I think. He was a fan though.

lick vs. riff is a debate that the philosophers have debated for ages

Taking sides: Riffs vs Licks

I've got a secret for you guys: Black Sabbath were secretly a Christian rock band.

true, any Satanic band is basically exploring the Christian spiritual hierarchy

yup. all Satanic bands are Christian bands.

moonlight is sunlight

Poop is food

Black Sabbath weren't a satanic band at all, though.

By that logic, Christian bands are all Satanic bands, which means U2 are satanists.

true, any Satanic band is basically exploring the Christian spiritual hierarchy

Well, when you're talking about King Diamond or Slayer or Deicide singing songs about Satan, and arguing that they're playing the Christians' game by even acknowledging their deity as a legit adversary, that's a different thing. I'm straight-up saying Black Sabbath were pro-God and pro-Jesus, and the occult imagery was deployed in a "sinners in the hands of an angry God/behold the torments of Hell and repent your wicked ways" way rather than a "we love the Devil!" way.

otm

yeah that's a legit distinction

also jumping back a bit, even if we restrict the definition of 'riff' to 'lead line', surely paint it black is almost as famous as satisfaction?

xpost otm x 2

paved the way for such fun like Demon Hunter

By that logic, Christian bands are all Satanic bands, which means U2 are satanists.

satanists are a subsect of Christianity, not the other way around. But yes, I'm sure Bono believes in the devil, probably the same way Antonin Scalia did

xp

the devil is MULTINATIONAL COMMERCE

誤訳侮辱 OTM.

Trying to clarify what I said earlier: a riff is rhythmic and essential to the song's identity, but it's usually not chordal - Paint it Black is definitely a riff, so is Satisfaction, but i maintain that Start Me Up is not a riff.

a lick does not repeat - a lick isn't the core of the song like a riff

also jumping back a bit, even if we restrict the definition of 'riff' to 'lead line', surely paint it black is almost as famous as satisfaction?

Yes, as is 'The Last Time' ...

No, 'Start Me Up' is a riff, flappy, and you're still wrong.

'Ventilator Blues' is far from the Stones most famous song, but christ, what a riff.

Riffs vs Licks
The opening guitar on Tumbling Dice is a good example of a lick. It's just a tasty part of the song. Vs a riff which repeats...

the "isn't chordal" part of flappy's riff definition is the part that seems a bit revisionist to me

yeah, like 'Wild Horses' and 'Jigsaw Puzzle' are made up of separate licks rather than one defining riff

xp i maintain that a riff is not chordal. i wouldn't call Smells Like Teen Spirit a riff. a riff is a lead line in the lower register that repeats/defines the song

*usually in the lower register... At the Drive-In's 'Arcarsenal,' Omar's high part in that is a riff, not a lick. fuck my head hurts

doesn't this argument have its own thread (possibly with "hook" thrown in for good measure?)

and I'm pretty sure it's 'rift'.

The Parts of a Song

Keith Richards thing is dyad and triad riffs, lots of them based off an open G tuning. Dyad riffing would be anything with powerchords from Iron Man to Smoke on the Water.

Jesus H Christ this thread sidetracked

http://www.metal-archives.com/images/2/1/2/212_label.jpg?2453

riffs are killer
licks are tasty

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d1/Rollingstonesfortylicks.jpg
think this settles it

This debate about the definition of "riff" seems crazy to me. The term does not originate with rock guitar. Any repeated melodic pattern that forms the basis for a tune, whether it is harmonized or not, can be called a riff, regardless of register.

http://riverwalkjazz.stanford.edu/program/riffs-and-shouts-building-blocks-jazz

also tone is sick

OTM

Unless this whole thing is for the lulz, in which case, good work.

Thanks, Sund4r. Finally some sense in here.