i think keith richards still makes disparaging remarks about zeppelin. about bonham especially, afaikWhy would he be disparaging about Bonham? Not his drumming that's for sure!― Bill Teeters (Tom D.), Monday, April 3, 2017 1:09 PM (two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
looks like he has rude things to say about pretty much everybody:http://ultimateclassicrock.com/keith-richards-led-zeppelin-comment/
― global tetrahedron, Monday, 3 April 2017 18:13 (seven years ago) link
xxpost now you've lost me. like are you saying a rhythm guitarist isn't playing "riffs"?
― Neanderthal, Monday, 3 April 2017 18:13 (seven years ago) link
is Sabbath's "Sweet Leaf" not a riff?
― Neanderthal, Monday, 3 April 2017 18:14 (seven years ago) link
'Start Me Up' is iconic but that's not really a riff, it's a rhythm part
Everyone agrees what a riff is, do they? I don't know, I'm asking.
― Bill Teeters (Tom D.), Monday, 3 April 2017 18:15 (seven years ago) link
"Whole Lotta Love", is that a riff or a 'rhythm part'?
to me a "riff" is a lead line, not full strumming. idk i've thought about this a lot and haven't really come to a rock solid conclusion
whole lotta love is a riff, so is sweat leaf.... i need to gather my thoughts on this. bc start me up is definitely not a riff...
― flappy bird, Monday, 3 April 2017 18:17 (seven years ago) link
"Start Me Up" is a riff.
― Bill Teeters (Tom D.), Monday, 3 April 2017 18:18 (seven years ago) link
i'd say it's more of a lick
― global tetrahedron, Monday, 3 April 2017 18:18 (seven years ago) link
That's my take on it anyway, riffs tend to be rhythm guitar based, "Satisfaction" is more of a lead line actually.
― Bill Teeters (Tom D.), Monday, 3 April 2017 18:19 (seven years ago) link
Can't You Hear Me Knocking, riff or lick?
― by the light of the burning Citroën, Monday, 3 April 2017 18:20 (seven years ago) link
xxxxpost Whole Lotta is a riff to my ears. to me what makes a riff vs a 'chord progression' = whether it stands out on its own. can you hum it? or is it more ancillary, specifically meant to serve as the foundation for the vocals and doesn't really stand out as memorable by itself?
maybe not the best rubric but idk
― Neanderthal, Monday, 3 April 2017 18:21 (seven years ago) link
Brown Sugar, Jumping Jack Flash, Street Fighting Man, Get Off of My Cloud, Bitch, The Last Time, 19th Nervous Breakdown, Honky Tonk Women, Tumbling Dice, Start Me Up, Beast Of Burden...
Are we really discussing this? I agree they are different bands and this might also be a question of defining a riff or even a "riff band" or whatever. Probably healthier to stick to the Sabbath comparisons. The Stones are playing on a different level completely. That sounds sort of smug but I actually believe it completely so fuck it.
― gospodin simmel, Monday, 3 April 2017 18:22 (seven years ago) link
LOL @ "The Stones have no riffs", flappy you truly are the gift that keeps on giving. You not understanding what a riff is has bizarrely made my day. Well done!
― The Roger Waters Experience (Turrican), Monday, 3 April 2017 18:22 (seven years ago) link
Yes, a riff can be a rhythm part. Therefore, 'Start Me Up' is a riff, 'Sweet Leaf' is a riff, the chord progression to 'Smells Like Teen Spirit', played in the way it is played, is a riff. Now crawl back under a rock. Next you'll be telling us all George Martin wasn't a musician...
...ah wait, you did!
― The Roger Waters Experience (Turrican), Monday, 3 April 2017 18:26 (seven years ago) link
Turrican, I will admit- for the most part, Animal Collective do not have riffs.
― flappy bird, Monday, 3 April 2017 18:26 (seven years ago) link
it was only a matter of time before Led Zeppelin tore us apart. and weirdly without Bill Magill
― Neanderthal, Monday, 3 April 2017 18:28 (seven years ago) link
ILM has a passionate Stones fanbase which doesn't let offhanded dismissive remarks slide. As it should.
― gospodin simmel, Monday, 3 April 2017 18:34 (seven years ago) link
Is this what happens to the brain when one overexposes themselves to Animal Collective!? Fucking hell...
― The Roger Waters Experience (Turrican), Monday, 3 April 2017 18:34 (seven years ago) link
Anyway, as much as I have a lot of time for the Stones, if I had to choose between the Stones and Zeppelin, it'd be Zeppelin every time. I prefer the way they play, I prefer the sound that those four people make and I prefer the way their records sound.
Upper mississippi OTM about Sabbath too, again, as much as I love Sabbath, their "evilness" always seemed a little cartoony and theatrical.
― The Roger Waters Experience (Turrican), Monday, 3 April 2017 18:40 (seven years ago) link
I've got a secret for you guys: Black Sabbath were secretly a Christian rock band. (Granted, their Christianity was that of terrified medieval peasants, but still.)
― Malcolm X, Martin Luther King, Jr, and Violent J (誤訳侮辱), Monday, 3 April 2017 18:41 (seven years ago) link
Yeah, there's definitely a couple of things that nod in that direction on Master of Reality...
― The Roger Waters Experience (Turrican), Monday, 3 April 2017 18:44 (seven years ago) link
a coupla things? I remember being 16 and confused af when I read the lyrics to "After Forever" inside my dad's vinyl.
― Neanderthal, Monday, 3 April 2017 18:45 (seven years ago) link
it's such a drag that 'After Forever' (their best riff) is Geezer Butler evangelizing via Ozzy
― flappy bird, Monday, 3 April 2017 18:46 (seven years ago) link
terrified medieval peasants
I know Aston is bad but I'm not sure it's quite that bad.
― Bill Teeters (Tom D.), Monday, 3 April 2017 18:47 (seven years ago) link
xxpost:
Ha, that's the main one I was thinking of!
― The Roger Waters Experience (Turrican), Monday, 3 April 2017 18:47 (seven years ago) link
at 16 I thought they were being sarcastic but then wondered if anybody would really be sarcastic across an entire album about something like that
― Neanderthal, Monday, 3 April 2017 18:48 (seven years ago) link
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-F_iWG5gAclE/UCkgtL9cxbI/AAAAAAAAXdM/-JGTNnK9XNE/s1600/iommi.jpg
― Malcolm X, Martin Luther King, Jr, and Violent J (誤訳侮辱), Monday, 3 April 2017 18:51 (seven years ago) link
Yeah, Black Sabbath were paranoid as fuck about "evil vibes maaaaan" ... 'tis why band members started wearing crosses, allegedly to ward off "evil spirits", and why Iommi punched Ozzy in the face for ripping up Bibles in hotel rooms. Drugs, man.
― The Roger Waters Experience (Turrican), Monday, 3 April 2017 18:53 (seven years ago) link
Well the Christian thing was sort of key for Sabbath's dismissal among chief critics at the time no? Lester Bangs was maybe the first one to explicitly call them a Christian band I think. He was a fan though.
― gospodin simmel, Monday, 3 April 2017 19:03 (seven years ago) link
lick vs. riff is a debate that the philosophers have debated for ages
― blonde redheads have more fun (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 3 April 2017 19:04 (seven years ago) link
Taking sides: Riffs vs Licks
― calstars, Monday, 3 April 2017 19:24 (seven years ago) link
I've got a secret for you guys: Black Sabbath were secretly a Christian rock band.
true, any Satanic band is basically exploring the Christian spiritual hierarchy
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Monday, 3 April 2017 19:37 (seven years ago) link
yup. all Satanic bands are Christian bands.
― Οὖτις, Monday, 3 April 2017 19:39 (seven years ago) link
moonlight is sunlight
― iris marduk (Jon not Jon), Monday, 3 April 2017 19:40 (seven years ago) link
Poop is food
― Neanderthal, Monday, 3 April 2017 19:41 (seven years ago) link
Black Sabbath weren't a satanic band at all, though.
By that logic, Christian bands are all Satanic bands, which means U2 are satanists.
― The Roger Waters Experience (Turrican), Monday, 3 April 2017 19:41 (seven years ago) link
Well, when you're talking about King Diamond or Slayer or Deicide singing songs about Satan, and arguing that they're playing the Christians' game by even acknowledging their deity as a legit adversary, that's a different thing. I'm straight-up saying Black Sabbath were pro-God and pro-Jesus, and the occult imagery was deployed in a "sinners in the hands of an angry God/behold the torments of Hell and repent your wicked ways" way rather than a "we love the Devil!" way.
― Malcolm X, Martin Luther King, Jr, and Violent J (誤訳侮辱), Monday, 3 April 2017 19:41 (seven years ago) link
otm
― iris marduk (Jon not Jon), Monday, 3 April 2017 19:42 (seven years ago) link
yeah that's a legit distinction
― Οὖτις, Monday, 3 April 2017 19:42 (seven years ago) link
also jumping back a bit, even if we restrict the definition of 'riff' to 'lead line', surely paint it black is almost as famous as satisfaction?
― iris marduk (Jon not Jon), Monday, 3 April 2017 19:43 (seven years ago) link
xpost otm x 2
paved the way for such fun like Demon Hunter
― Neanderthal, Monday, 3 April 2017 19:43 (seven years ago) link
satanists are a subsect of Christianity, not the other way around. But yes, I'm sure Bono believes in the devil, probably the same way Antonin Scalia did
xp
― Οὖτις, Monday, 3 April 2017 19:43 (seven years ago) link
the devil is MULTINATIONAL COMMERCE
― Neanderthal, Monday, 3 April 2017 19:44 (seven years ago) link
誤訳侮辱 OTM.
― The Roger Waters Experience (Turrican), Monday, 3 April 2017 19:44 (seven years ago) link
Trying to clarify what I said earlier: a riff is rhythmic and essential to the song's identity, but it's usually not chordal - Paint it Black is definitely a riff, so is Satisfaction, but i maintain that Start Me Up is not a riff.
a lick does not repeat - a lick isn't the core of the song like a riff
― flappy bird, Monday, 3 April 2017 19:49 (seven years ago) link
Yes, as is 'The Last Time' ...
― The Roger Waters Experience (Turrican), Monday, 3 April 2017 19:50 (seven years ago) link
No, 'Start Me Up' is a riff, flappy, and you're still wrong.
― The Roger Waters Experience (Turrican), Monday, 3 April 2017 19:51 (seven years ago) link
'Ventilator Blues' is far from the Stones most famous song, but christ, what a riff.
― The Roger Waters Experience (Turrican), Monday, 3 April 2017 19:53 (seven years ago) link
Riffs vs Licks The opening guitar on Tumbling Dice is a good example of a lick. It's just a tasty part of the song. Vs a riff which repeats...
― calstars, Monday, 3 April 2017 19:58 (seven years ago) link
the "isn't chordal" part of flappy's riff definition is the part that seems a bit revisionist to me
― Neanderthal, Monday, 3 April 2017 19:58 (seven years ago) link