Run Laughing Through Your Fingers: Best Cream Song

Had never heard "Anyone for Tennis" until a couple of years ago (via that clip)--absolutely love it.

nah - King Midas in Reverse, Bus Stop, Carrie Anne, You Need Love, Dear Eloise - so many great singles. And they could sing. Nobody in Cream can sing for shit. Nobody in Airplane can sing for shit either for that matter, the sound of Grace Jones' voice drives me up the wall, so terrible.

xp

Marty Balin had arguably the most soulful white voice of the sixties. You've clearly thought this through very carefully, though, so I cede the floor to you.

we can argue about Marty Balin instead if you want, altho I kinda don't care who the "most soulful white voice of the sixties" was wtf kind of criteria is that

I don't have a problem with Cream at all, but I'd take the collected work of Small Faces over the collected work of Cream in a heartbeat.

I went through a Cream phase when I was 12 (only had an '80s best-of) and again about 20 years later (the morning after being disgusted with the blandness of all the bands at a hardcore show, I went out and bought all the Cream records). The long jams are obviously hit-or-miss; the shorter ones work exponentially better ("I'm So Glad" on Goodbye, in particular), but none of them approach Hendrix- or Who-like intensity (the Who's long jams of that time were decidedly more daring, though poorly recorded).

There's some great moments though: I always loved the garageyness of "Cat's Squirrel," "Doing That Scrapyard Thing" is charming and groovy, and "Toad" minus the awful solo is super heavy.

Voted "Badge," and yeah, I vastly prefer the Small Faces, too. And the Ginger Baker doc is entertaining, but jeez, what an overrated grump.

ha yeah Baker is a charming asshole but his recorded output is not that impressive imo. I do like that record he did w Fela.

Nobody in Airplane can sing for shit either for that matter, the sound of Grace Jones' voice drives me up the wall, so terrible

Would *love* to hear Grace Jones sing "White Rabbit" and other Airplane cuts

haha yes me too lol

looooooool

'Slave to the Rabbit'

heh

Fwiw, I remember enjoying the Ginger Baker's Air Force stuff that I heard. Not essential stuff, but still worth a listen.

Yeah, the one Air Force record I heard was ok. I think if he'd been able to keep a band together, he could've done some interesting things.

And the Ginger Baker doc is entertaining, but jeez, what an overrated grump.

― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Wednesday, February 15, 2017 6:48 PM (forty-four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

My favourite part is when he starts talking about Mick Jagger... "I said 'Jack, who is this little cunt?'" or something like that.

Fair comment though.

I liked Baker's trio album with Bill Frisell and Charlie Haden, but I should give it another listen in case I'm looking back on it too fondly.

Went with Brave Ulysses--I regret nothing

wtf kind of criteria is that

It's not really confusing. It means he was white, and he was essentially a folk singer, and he was unusually soulful as such. Think Christgau made the same observation. But I'm not sure whether Christgau ranks above or below "noted political social scientist greil marcus" on your contempt scale.

the combo of "soulful", "white" and "sixties" implied that there was some qualitative racial signifiers/aesthetics involved (ie "white guy that was best at impersonating a black guy") but ok. leaving aside the fact of Balin's ethnicity, I wouldn't put him anywhere near a list of top 60s male singers, regardless of genre, but then my tastes run more to the guys that could really harmonize (Bee Gees, Beatles, Beach Boys) on the one hand, and R&B shouters (Otis, Righteous Bros, Sam Cooke of course) on the other

Balin and Slick were horrible screechers. I think of the Airplane as a good instrumental band that constantly had a couple of idiots rushing the stage and "helping."

Jefferson Creamplane

Kantner was worse than both (xp)

Screaming Trees 1987 on KXLU:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZ__x3f3leA

What gets me is, Baker is always complaining about how he didn't make much money out of Cream and resenting Bruce for forming the Bruce/Brown songwriting partnership, but the reality is that Baker has quite a fair amount of songwriting credits for Cream... he just didn't happen to write the hits (although he still thinks he should have got a credit for the 5/4 bolero on 'White Room' ... and thinking about it, aren't 'Tales of Brave Ulysses' and 'White Room' almost the same song!?)

Pete Brown certainly lucked out.

the combo of "soulful", "white" and "sixties" implied that there was some qualitative racial signifiers/aesthetics involved (ie "white guy that was best at impersonating a black guy") but ok.

Believe me, you're reading far too much into the comment. I think Marty Balin has a incredibly beautiful voice on "Come Up the Years," "Today," "Saturday Afternoon," songs like that. Try to imagine that statement without the qualifier: "Marty Balin had arguably the most soulful voice of the sixties"--I'm thinking that might have been greeted with a mountain of ridicule. I brought in Christgau because your "wtf" made me bristle, like I'd just said something beyond the pale or something.

your elision of race here is really weird

like you use a racially loaded phrase but then disavow any racially loaded implications they may have had. My whole issue with your statement is the "most soulful white" construct, hence my wtf

also the singing on Saturday Afternoon is terrible god the off-key caterwauling and slapdash harmonizing/poor arranging blech

I think it's equally weird when you start parsing an innocuous comment because you're looking for...I don't know what. I usually make it a rule to avoid this kind of nonsense on here, but is there something you want to say?

And there you go with that voice-of-God stuff again (why I brought up your timeless Marcus comment, my favourite ILX post ever for a variety of reasons). You don't have to agree that Cream or Jefferson Airplane were anything special--I think Tom D. began the thread by saying he had no use for Cream. It is possible to communicate that without being as aggressively obnoxious as you tend to be--for shit, for shit, wtf, etc.

why I brought up your timeless Marcus comment, my favourite ILX post ever for a variety of reasons

I have no idea what you're talking about tbh

idk how I'm not being clear about what I wanted to say...? Cream were third-rate, the Airplane were terrible. Calling Marty Balin a great singer is strange and the terms you used to defend him were odd and apparently I misconstrued them. the end.

1) I quote Marcus on the election that's about eight months out, his reasons why Trump will win no matter how many people explain why that could never happen.

2) You contemptuously dismiss what he says with your "noted political social scientist greil marcus" post--because obviously he doesn't understand things you've figured out. All that was missing was your signature "uh" or "um" that you usually begin your contemptuously dismissive posts with.

3) Skip forward eight months, the election.

No--is there something you want to say about me that's behind your careful analysis of my Marty Balin comment?

Balin rules.

I was really enjoying this thread for the first 41 posts.

Where are the specific pitch problems with "Saturday Afternoon?"

Man, Marty Balin's really getting punched in the face on this thread.

I really enjoy Balin and Slick (and even Mickey Thomas) tbh.

I wouldn't claim that Ginger Baker or Jack Bruce are great singers in any conventional sense--and truthfully, I'm not even sure who's singing on my favourite Cream songs most of the time. I would argue that the voice(s) that sing "Deserted Cities of the Heart," "White Room," "Those Were the Days," and many other songs perfectly capture the gloominess, strangeness, and sometimes sadness of those songs.

I have no memory of that greil marcus thing but sure i guess you're right he is at least as valuable re: politics as Scott Adams

Xp

I'm sure it's Clapton on 'Strange Brew', Bruce on 'Tales of Brave Ulysses' and Baker on 'Blue Condition' ...

Believe it or not clemenza i have no real personal opinion about you at all. But i do have issues w aesthetics that privelege white imitations of black styles (scare quotes around white and black there if you please) so qhenanyone throws around "white" and "soulful" i get suspicious.

Xp

When anyone

Stupid phone

"Deserted Cities of the Heart," "White Room," "Those Were the Days,"

Jack Bruce on all, I would think?

I simply don't know what you mean by "that privilege white imitations of black styles." a) I think Marty Balin's voice is beautiful on those songs. b) I don't think he's imitating anybody on "Today"--he's 100% himself. (I can't think of anybody else who sounds like Marty Balin on "Today." c) I threw in white because I'm being preemptively defensive about saying "Marty Balin had arguably the most soulful voice of the sixties"--I know such a statement would be greeted with ridicule, and I don't even believe that myself. I do believe he had one of the most soulful voices of the sixties, and I guess I should have just said that and been prepared to defend it, so that's my fault. But again, the jargon that you're throwing around has zero to do with my feelings about "Today."

I thought it might be Bruce, Tim, so he's the voice of Cream for me. (Except I also love "Doin' That Scrapyard Thing," and I think that might be Baker?)

Jack Bruce can certainly sing, technically he's very good (need Dan Perry) plus I like that he sings with a Scottish accent, though that I'm not sure how noticeable that is to most (non-Scottish) listeners.

I'm not a metal fan, so I don't know if Cream had any kind of a lasting influence, or any influence at all, in that area. But I do remember thinking this was a funny and pretty lively "Tales of Braves Ulysses" rip at the time:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKj5cJ9_KSg

There must be a Cream POX thread. I'd have to extend that to twelve for myself, all the songs I love (no order): "White Room," "Sunshine of Your Love," "Rollin' and Tumblin'," "Tales of Brave Ulysses," "I Feel Free," "Badge," "Anyone for Tennis," "Doin' That Scrapyard Thing," "Passing the Time," "Deserted Cities of the Heart," "Those Were the Days," "I'm So Glad." Which is more than a quarter of their entire output. I think the only other artist where I could say the same would be the Velvet Underground (who I somehow overlooked in the original post--move Cream down to sixth). Having a small body of work helps.

I wonder how much the Airplane and Cream record-buying audiences overlapped in 1966-67?

I don't hear pitch problems with Balin, a good folk singer whose not-so-secret weapon was pop crooning. I can imagine him killing "Yesterday" or "Light My Fire" but not Otis Redding numbers.

My guess would be considerable overlap, although--I related this story in ILX's stuttering thread--I tagged along once when a friend interviewed (stutterer) John Hammond Jr., and he insisted that the Airplane's audience was primarily the Monkees/Cowsills teenaged-girl audience (and he got very impatient with me when I jumped in and argued the point, which was a dumb thing to do seeing as he was there and I was only six at the time).

Yes--when I apply the term "soulful" to Balin, I mean strictly on the ballad side.

Had I known noone would vote for Anyone for Tennis I'd voted for that instead. I loved when my dad played that one when I was like 6.

I said I'd note "I Feel Free" votes: two for sure, and the person who noticed its absence might have been a third. (And maybe there would have been a couple more if it had been on the list.)

Thought I'd be the only "Deserted Cities of the Heart" vote; excellent drone.

I had a feeling 'Badge' was gonna take this about 10 posts into the thread. It's a great song - classic.