Elliott Smith - Either/Or POLL (+ 20th anniversary reissue news)

Quasi's 'Field Studies' is another really good accompaniment to this album

"punch and judy"

what a great album

okay listening now... Pictures Of Me is so so great..

Listened to this most nights for about 6 months… a year? in 97, my postgrad time. I don't think I was in bad way or depressed, though I had the usual young man melancholy, and some of the album's tones (blankness, tenderness, self-hatred, tense anger) spoke to me. It always just sounded perfect late at night, lightly drunk, alone, doing some housework or reading before sleeping.

I haven't listened to it a lot since, though it's absolutely not an album I'm over, or shamed by - just that there's no record that places me in a room more thoroughly - when I hear it I am absolutely back in an Iffley Road flat at 1 in the morning, flipping the record then walking over to the sink to wash up. When I get over that bump… it still sounds amazing. Gave it a first end to end listen in years because of the poll, and it's a joy (if a dark one). Comforting. There isn't another record like it for me.

Anyway, Alameda (but could be any of about 6 on a different day)

just heard this for the first time last night.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-zflTqOxMw

That reddit thread was interesting. There are a handful of sorta peers that have a lot in common with him, musically: Jon Brion, Jason Falkner, Brendan Benson, all Beatles-obsessed guys who are highly adept at arrangements and also playing every instrument. But obviously Smith's deep melancholy and modesty sets him apart; he could have gone smarty-pants power-pop but obviously didn't dig that scene.

I want to say the first time I heard him was maybe the "Needle in the Hay" 7" back in ... 1995? It's a great song, but not really representative, especially in its primitiveness. "Either/Or" was the album that really clicked with me, and I got to see lots of him live, solo and with bands (typically backed/with Quasi). We crossed paths once or twice in various contexts; he was super shy. I noticed the biggest change after the Oscar stuff, which seems to be when things started falling apart. HIs shows started attracting proto-bros, people there to be seen overshadowing the rest of the enraptured crowd. But even though he had tons of fans he's still seems just obscure enough that people still discover him the way I and many discovered stuff like Big Star, or Nick Drake or whomever, even Joy Division or Eno or VU or bands not nearly as popular as one might surmise, a word of mouth thing, which keeps his catalog pretty special.

The outro of "Everybody Has It" felt very familiar, and I just realized he does the same thing at the end of "Alameda" where the fade-out is written into the song, cooling the dynamics with instruments casually stepping out of the arrangement.

When I hear Ballad of Big Nothing I always think of Janet Weiss and how she'd cry every time they played it

"Big Nothing" is the first song of his I loved, it's got my vote
it reminds me of Big Star and is possibly as good

there are several great songs on this, the whole album is very good. somehow i find the music not really depressive but the lyrics definitely forebode the tragic course of events. i go for alameda, it is one of those songs that makes me want to shout "shut up and listen" to people talking when it comes out of a loudspeaker.

As much as I love his music, I hardly ever listen to any of his albums all the way through. I'll either listen to a live recording or a handful of songs at a time. The records have a numbing effect on me, so much so that it took me years to notice certain songs that I glazed over, like King's Crossing, Southern Belle, Coming Up Roses, I Better Be Quiet Now, Easy Way Out... it's sweet to still be discovering masterpieces by this guy 3 years after becoming a fan...

and now Punch and Judy! never really noticed this song before this thread, but now of course it's been stuck in my head the past couple days.

xo is really depressing compared to this one

not much love for Speed Trials? that song draws upon some of this guy's best strengths for me: the ability to captivate the listener through simplicity, quiet tension & subtle deflections in pace & mood.

It ended up voting for Speed Trials. It's the scene-setter. And it has the chorus over two different chord sequences which is just great. And the drums.

*I

Smith has some great album openers, including this one. It's just not my favourite

From a Basement on the Hill is his crowning achievement imo, and even in its unfinished state, it towers over everything else he did. the most moving album about drug abuse and depression I've ever heard. anyone else prefer it?

I'm confident that yours is a minority opinion, but there's still some good stuff on there, for sure.

Even though he was consistently a disaster live during the period it was recorded, the playing and arrangements and compositions on Basement are incredible, an enormous leap forward from Figure 8, which feels phoned in and uninspired in comparison (save for the acoustic based tracks - Easy Way Out, I Better Be Quiet Now, Happiness, Somebody That I Used to Know)... even the playing & singing in this video taken during the depths of his addiction is stunning:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5SFyBKybJM

tho he does fuck up and abandon the ending

i don't think basement is an enormous leap forward from figure 8, they very much exist in the same sound world

Hard to pin an unfinished album as his crowning achievement, but there's absolutely tons of great stuff from that era – though a lot of the songs had existed for years.

His live playing around 1999 – the Satyricon gig sticks out to me from boots – is absolutely fucking phenomenal.

the film's great isn't it? i was never a huge fan but i saw him in 98 and liked him plenty, this made me like him more. the atmosphere it creates around that whole lovely era where it's snowing and he's in Portland and he's in Heat Miser and just before he got too big. it puts some much better known rock docs to shame.

i def play basement and this one the most.

Alameda.

it's weirdly comforting to see how so many people are affected in the same way by Elliott Smith - periods where you listen to nothing but his music, and then having to take an extended break afterwards because it was getting too much.

That was definitely the case for me, too - devoured his music at the start of major depression in my late teens, followed by nearly a decade of never listening to him at all. I've only started putting on his records again in the past couple of years or so - it's easier to appreciate his songcraft now, without thinking or feeling as much as I did before.

I would love DreamWorks (is that still a label?) to do a New Moon type set of his material from XO to Basement. Seems like there's plenty of great unreleased material from that era. Supposedly an entire album recorded with Jon Brion as well. Not sure if he ever cut vocals for it.

some of the songs he recorded with Brion ended up on Basement, iirc they were "Twilight," "A Passing Feeling," and "A Fond Farewell." Another one from those sessions, "True Love," ended up on the Heaven Adores You soundtrack last year.

Are the versions of those tunes from the Brion sessions or re-recordings of the same tunes? Lots of great b-sides from his DreamWorks days too.

they're recordings from the Brion sessions. "Twilight" and "A Passing Feeling" were completed with Brion, while the basic tracking for "A Fond Farewell" was used, with vocals and overdubs added later on. It's wild how long the recording sessions for Basement were spread out- "Memory Lane" was recorded in October 2003, and the vocals for "King's Crossing" were recorded a week before he died.

Elliott died in October of 2003. I think sessions started with Brion in 2001.

i know, i was talking about how all the different sessions - with McConnell and Fritz and Brion - were spread out over such a long period of time, up until the weeks before he died.

O gotcha. It's a fascinating album I only wish we could hear it as he had intended. Basement is Elliott's White Album.

this is a breakdown of where/when everything was recorded:

1. Coast to Coast - 2002, McConnell
2. Let's Get Lost - Summer 2003, Fritz
3. Pretty (Ugly Before) - May 2000, self-produced
4. Don't Go Down - 2001, McConnell
5. Strung Out Again - 2001, McConnell
6. A Fond Farewell - early 2001 & 2002, Brion/McConnell
7. King's Crossing - 2003, Fritz
8. Ostrich & Chirping - 2001, McConnell (Smith had nothing to do with this)
9. Twilight - early 2001, Brion
10. A Passing Feeling - early 2001, Brion
11. The Last Hour - 1996, Crane
12. Shooting Star 2001, McConnell
13. Memory Lane - 2003, Fritz
14. Little One - 2001, McConnell
15. A Distorted Reality Is Now a Necessity to Be Free - 2003, Fritz

xp yeah it's a drag, I'm glad it's something like 70% complete at least. reading the visions and ideas McConnell and ES had for it is a real drag, would've been great...

it also sucks that McConnell wasn't consulted after Smith's death when the album was being sequenced & mixed, probably because they did drugs together while they were recording (there's a bit in the book Elliott Smith and the Big Nothing where McConnell talks about mixing Shooting Star totally coked out).

Flappy, did you just write up that recording list from memory? If so, I salute you my friend.

New Moon is a record I revisit so so often. Feel it's overlooked a bit, so many great songs on there.

thanks! p much from memory, had to double check Don't Go Down. this is a great source btw for sessions histories: http://www.sweetaddy.com

That is a great source, yes (but the compliment still stands)

Agree that someone (Dreamworks?) could do an excellent compilation of all the various bits and pieces worked into the FABOTH sessions - stuff like Stickman, True Love, See You In Heaven, O So Slow, Assassin, Let's Turn The Record Over, Abused ... piles of stuff still around but unofficial.

the people that made the Heaven Adores You movie had a real opportunity to do something like that, and imo the soundtrack was a serious letdown. if they had access and permission to release "True Love," which is from the Dreamworks years/Brion sessions, why did they pad the rest of the thing with songs taken straight off of already released albums? "LA," "Everything Means Nothing to Me," "Happiness," and "Son of Sam" are all already widely available on his records. And I hate that "The Last Hour" is listed as an early/alternate version, but it's exactly the same take that was put on Basement. What a waste of space. I'm pretty sure the family put the kibosh on releasing "Abused" and "Suicide Machine" back when Basement was compiled, but I don't know why they didn't include stuff like "Everything's Okay" or "Stickman." Actually, "See You in Heaven" would've been perfect for a soundtrack, given that it's an instrumental.

I mean, this Dreamworks era compilation already exists as a multi-disc bootleg called Grand Mal, y'all should check it out if you haven't, it's all over YouTube...

Hey I know this is my 3rd post in this thread about the same song. Someone mentioned to me that "Everybody Has It" was possibly written by Tony Lash and not Elliott. Was wondering if anyone can confirm/deny.

tried looking up its BMI registry, came up blank. Did a little digging and it seems like Tony wrote it.

Wow, that band really did have compatible songwriters.

sweet interview with Larry Crane about building Jackpot! with Elliott, recording with him, and remastering/compiling the materials for the Either/Or reissue. https://www.fretboardjournal.com/podcast/podcast-132-recording-engineer-larry-crane-elliott-smith/

Just listened through XO for the first time in many years. To my shame had pretty much forgotten about the existence of Oh Well, Okay though I bet I could still play it on guitar if I sat down to it.

By comparison to either/or it seems much more like a collection of stuff he got recorded while he had access to a studio, an album in the truest sense of the word, whereas either/or feels very much like you're visiting the same psychic and sonic space on every track.

Watched Heaven Adores You again and realised there's a version of King's Crossing from one of the Murder Of Crows tapes played in the background early in the film, which I missed the first time around. He kept that tune a loooong time.

Flappy you have a wealth of knowledge on all things Elliott and I completely agree with your opinion of the Heaven Adores You soundtrack. While some of Elliott's earliest recordings are interesting as a curiosity there's so many unreleased and just straight up obscure tunes in the archives that they didn't touch. I can only hope that DreamWorks said ok to a track or two, but are waiting to do reissue's of XO and Figure 8 or just compiling a New Moon type collection of their own.

Hey flaps do you know anything about the song True Love, like when it was written and recorded?

This song finally jumped out at me today, and wow it's fantastic. Both lyrics and arrangement. This has happened separately with what, literally almost 100 songs now since his death, and that's not including FABOTH and New Moon! It's just mindblowing. This guy will always be my favorite.

"true love is a rose behind glass" this guy and his drug references
http://i.imgur.com/jDhb7Pz.jpg

I had a moment where I thought I should have made sure 2:45 got one, but I'm glad someone was on it.