great bit from the p4k oral history:
ROB SCHNAPF: We recorded “Between the Bars”, “Angeles”, and “Say Yes” at [Schnapf and Rothrock’s Humboldt County, California, studio] the Shop. He would record one live take of vocal and guitar together, and then he would just double to it once we got it. It was just absurd. The guitar stuff isn’t even easy. It was ridiculous that he was able to just nail a vocal and guitar performance live, and he was able to double it live again. I mean, it’s not like he’s strumming G, C, D. There’s intricate little fills. It sounds so natural, and so simple—then you try to play it. And sing at the same time. He was just really good. Understated, but really good. I loved "Angeles". I was excited to be able to record it. We took that one organ note, which he had previously recorded, and looped it. It’s that one pedal tone, and it really felt like… something. I don’t always try to operate on the intellectual level; I like to keep it in the land of feelings and then think about it afterwards if I need to. Recording “Angeles” was a good feeling.LUKE WOOD [DreamWorks A&R]: The most available example of Elliott's skill as a writer, and his way with metaphor, is probably "Between the Bars". It works on three layers. It's about love, at first, or it seems to be; you could look at it literally, being about going out for a night out at the bars; the imagery could easily be about prison; and, of course, it's potentially about addiction. The clarity and continuity of thought is amazing—he can take a metaphor like that and sing about it for three minutes and never leave.
I loved "Angeles". I was excited to be able to record it. We took that one organ note, which he had previously recorded, and looped it. It’s that one pedal tone, and it really felt like… something. I don’t always try to operate on the intellectual level; I like to keep it in the land of feelings and then think about it afterwards if I need to. Recording “Angeles” was a good feeling.
LUKE WOOD [DreamWorks A&R]: The most available example of Elliott's skill as a writer, and his way with metaphor, is probably "Between the Bars". It works on three layers. It's about love, at first, or it seems to be; you could look at it literally, being about going out for a night out at the bars; the imagery could easily be about prison; and, of course, it's potentially about addiction. The clarity and continuity of thought is amazing—he can take a metaphor like that and sing about it for three minutes and never leave.
― flappy bird, Thursday, 5 January 2017 19:37 (seven years ago) link
walk down alameda
― billstevejim, Thursday, 5 January 2017 23:19 (seven years ago) link
voted for "Big Nothing" because nobody else seems to be
― Rock Wokeman (Noodle Vague), Friday, 6 January 2017 06:45 (seven years ago) link
"All spit and spite, you're up all night and down every dayA tired man with only hours to go just waiting to be taken away"
Love Ballad of Big Nothing. He sounds very restrained, trying to keep himself in line, but it's like you can hear how on edge he is, how he means what he sings and is this close from going fuck it and just belt out the lyrics.
― Le Bateau Ivre, Friday, 6 January 2017 08:28 (seven years ago) link
he speaks to me, lol
― Rock Wokeman (Noodle Vague), Friday, 6 January 2017 09:55 (seven years ago) link
i'm that man at times tbh
― Le Bateau Ivre, Friday, 6 January 2017 10:02 (seven years ago) link
i'm gonna have to listen to this album today
― Lennon, Elvis, Hendrix etc (dog latin), Friday, 6 January 2017 14:04 (seven years ago) link
i haven't listened to it in several years. not because i don't like it, deep down, but that at some point i guess i must have felt, i dunno, embarrassed for liking it or something? like it was a childish thing i should have left behind along with dying my hair funny colours and wearing trousers about 5x too big for me. DGAF nowadays of course.
― Lennon, Elvis, Hendrix etc (dog latin), Friday, 6 January 2017 14:18 (seven years ago) link
Quasi's 'Field Studies' is another really good accompaniment to this album
― Lennon, Elvis, Hendrix etc (dog latin), Friday, 6 January 2017 14:38 (seven years ago) link
"punch and judy"
― a but (brimstead), Friday, 6 January 2017 14:42 (seven years ago) link
what a great album
okay listening now... Pictures Of Me is so so great..
― Lennon, Elvis, Hendrix etc (dog latin), Friday, 6 January 2017 14:43 (seven years ago) link
Listened to this most nights for about 6 months… a year? in 97, my postgrad time. I don't think I was in bad way or depressed, though I had the usual young man melancholy, and some of the album's tones (blankness, tenderness, self-hatred, tense anger) spoke to me. It always just sounded perfect late at night, lightly drunk, alone, doing some housework or reading before sleeping.
I haven't listened to it a lot since, though it's absolutely not an album I'm over, or shamed by - just that there's no record that places me in a room more thoroughly - when I hear it I am absolutely back in an Iffley Road flat at 1 in the morning, flipping the record then walking over to the sink to wash up. When I get over that bump… it still sounds amazing. Gave it a first end to end listen in years because of the poll, and it's a joy (if a dark one). Comforting. There isn't another record like it for me.
Anyway, Alameda (but could be any of about 6 on a different day)
― woof, Sunday, 8 January 2017 13:45 (seven years ago) link
just heard this for the first time last night.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-zflTqOxMw
― billstevejim, Sunday, 8 January 2017 16:36 (seven years ago) link
That reddit thread was interesting. There are a handful of sorta peers that have a lot in common with him, musically: Jon Brion, Jason Falkner, Brendan Benson, all Beatles-obsessed guys who are highly adept at arrangements and also playing every instrument. But obviously Smith's deep melancholy and modesty sets him apart; he could have gone smarty-pants power-pop but obviously didn't dig that scene.
I want to say the first time I heard him was maybe the "Needle in the Hay" 7" back in ... 1995? It's a great song, but not really representative, especially in its primitiveness. "Either/Or" was the album that really clicked with me, and I got to see lots of him live, solo and with bands (typically backed/with Quasi). We crossed paths once or twice in various contexts; he was super shy. I noticed the biggest change after the Oscar stuff, which seems to be when things started falling apart. HIs shows started attracting proto-bros, people there to be seen overshadowing the rest of the enraptured crowd. But even though he had tons of fans he's still seems just obscure enough that people still discover him the way I and many discovered stuff like Big Star, or Nick Drake or whomever, even Joy Division or Eno or VU or bands not nearly as popular as one might surmise, a word of mouth thing, which keeps his catalog pretty special.
― Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 8 January 2017 17:00 (seven years ago) link
The outro of "Everybody Has It" felt very familiar, and I just realized he does the same thing at the end of "Alameda" where the fade-out is written into the song, cooling the dynamics with instruments casually stepping out of the arrangement.
― billstevejim, Sunday, 8 January 2017 22:47 (seven years ago) link
When I hear Ballad of Big Nothing I always think of Janet Weiss and how she'd cry every time they played it
― rip van wanko, Monday, 9 January 2017 02:11 (seven years ago) link
"Big Nothing" is the first song of his I loved, it's got my voteit reminds me of Big Star and is possibly as good
― bunny slopes, Monday, 9 January 2017 06:58 (seven years ago) link
there are several great songs on this, the whole album is very good. somehow i find the music not really depressive but the lyrics definitely forebode the tragic course of events. i go for alameda, it is one of those songs that makes me want to shout "shut up and listen" to people talking when it comes out of a loudspeaker.
― it's the distortion, stupid! (alex in mainhattan), Monday, 9 January 2017 17:18 (seven years ago) link
As much as I love his music, I hardly ever listen to any of his albums all the way through. I'll either listen to a live recording or a handful of songs at a time. The records have a numbing effect on me, so much so that it took me years to notice certain songs that I glazed over, like King's Crossing, Southern Belle, Coming Up Roses, I Better Be Quiet Now, Easy Way Out... it's sweet to still be discovering masterpieces by this guy 3 years after becoming a fan...
and now Punch and Judy! never really noticed this song before this thread, but now of course it's been stuck in my head the past couple days.
― flappy bird, Monday, 9 January 2017 18:14 (seven years ago) link
xo is really depressing compared to this one
― Lennon, Elvis, Hendrix etc (dog latin), Monday, 9 January 2017 23:17 (seven years ago) link
not much love for Speed Trials? that song draws upon some of this guy's best strengths for me: the ability to captivate the listener through simplicity, quiet tension & subtle deflections in pace & mood.
― charlie h, Tuesday, 10 January 2017 01:35 (seven years ago) link
It ended up voting for Speed Trials. It's the scene-setter. And it has the chorus over two different chord sequences which is just great. And the drums.
― in twelve parts (lamonti), Tuesday, 10 January 2017 18:13 (seven years ago) link
*I
Smith has some great album openers, including this one. It's just not my favourite
― Rock Wokeman (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 10 January 2017 18:30 (seven years ago) link
From a Basement on the Hill is his crowning achievement imo, and even in its unfinished state, it towers over everything else he did. the most moving album about drug abuse and depression I've ever heard. anyone else prefer it?
― flappy bird, Wednesday, 11 January 2017 03:49 (seven years ago) link
I'm confident that yours is a minority opinion, but there's still some good stuff on there, for sure.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 11 January 2017 04:01 (seven years ago) link
Even though he was consistently a disaster live during the period it was recorded, the playing and arrangements and compositions on Basement are incredible, an enormous leap forward from Figure 8, which feels phoned in and uninspired in comparison (save for the acoustic based tracks - Easy Way Out, I Better Be Quiet Now, Happiness, Somebody That I Used to Know)... even the playing & singing in this video taken during the depths of his addiction is stunning:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5SFyBKybJM
― flappy bird, Wednesday, 11 January 2017 04:06 (seven years ago) link
tho he does fuck up and abandon the ending
i don't think basement is an enormous leap forward from figure 8, they very much exist in the same sound world
― who is extremely unqualified to review this pop album (BradNelson), Wednesday, 11 January 2017 04:54 (seven years ago) link
Hard to pin an unfinished album as his crowning achievement, but there's absolutely tons of great stuff from that era – though a lot of the songs had existed for years.
His live playing around 1999 – the Satyricon gig sticks out to me from boots – is absolutely fucking phenomenal.
― in twelve parts (lamonti), Wednesday, 11 January 2017 19:39 (seven years ago) link
the film's great isn't it? i was never a huge fan but i saw him in 98 and liked him plenty, this made me like him more. the atmosphere it creates around that whole lovely era where it's snowing and he's in Portland and he's in Heat Miser and just before he got too big. it puts some much better known rock docs to shame.
― piscesx, Wednesday, 11 January 2017 23:39 (seven years ago) link
i def play basement and this one the most.
― difficult listening hour, Wednesday, 11 January 2017 23:43 (seven years ago) link
Alameda.
it's weirdly comforting to see how so many people are affected in the same way by Elliott Smith - periods where you listen to nothing but his music, and then having to take an extended break afterwards because it was getting too much.
That was definitely the case for me, too - devoured his music at the start of major depression in my late teens, followed by nearly a decade of never listening to him at all. I've only started putting on his records again in the past couple of years or so - it's easier to appreciate his songcraft now, without thinking or feeling as much as I did before.
― Roz, Thursday, 12 January 2017 06:25 (seven years ago) link
I would love DreamWorks (is that still a label?) to do a New Moon type set of his material from XO to Basement. Seems like there's plenty of great unreleased material from that era. Supposedly an entire album recorded with Jon Brion as well. Not sure if he ever cut vocals for it.
― DavidLeeRoth, Thursday, 12 January 2017 15:00 (seven years ago) link
some of the songs he recorded with Brion ended up on Basement, iirc they were "Twilight," "A Passing Feeling," and "A Fond Farewell." Another one from those sessions, "True Love," ended up on the Heaven Adores You soundtrack last year.
― flappy bird, Thursday, 12 January 2017 18:07 (seven years ago) link
Are the versions of those tunes from the Brion sessions or re-recordings of the same tunes? Lots of great b-sides from his DreamWorks days too.
― DavidLeeRoth, Thursday, 12 January 2017 19:00 (seven years ago) link
they're recordings from the Brion sessions. "Twilight" and "A Passing Feeling" were completed with Brion, while the basic tracking for "A Fond Farewell" was used, with vocals and overdubs added later on. It's wild how long the recording sessions for Basement were spread out- "Memory Lane" was recorded in October 2003, and the vocals for "King's Crossing" were recorded a week before he died.
― flappy bird, Thursday, 12 January 2017 19:21 (seven years ago) link
Elliott died in October of 2003. I think sessions started with Brion in 2001.
― DavidLeeRoth, Thursday, 12 January 2017 20:08 (seven years ago) link
i know, i was talking about how all the different sessions - with McConnell and Fritz and Brion - were spread out over such a long period of time, up until the weeks before he died.
― flappy bird, Thursday, 12 January 2017 20:15 (seven years ago) link
O gotcha. It's a fascinating album I only wish we could hear it as he had intended. Basement is Elliott's White Album.
― DavidLeeRoth, Thursday, 12 January 2017 20:20 (seven years ago) link
this is a breakdown of where/when everything was recorded:
1. Coast to Coast - 2002, McConnell2. Let's Get Lost - Summer 2003, Fritz3. Pretty (Ugly Before) - May 2000, self-produced4. Don't Go Down - 2001, McConnell5. Strung Out Again - 2001, McConnell6. A Fond Farewell - early 2001 & 2002, Brion/McConnell7. King's Crossing - 2003, Fritz8. Ostrich & Chirping - 2001, McConnell (Smith had nothing to do with this)9. Twilight - early 2001, Brion10. A Passing Feeling - early 2001, Brion11. The Last Hour - 1996, Crane12. Shooting Star 2001, McConnell13. Memory Lane - 2003, Fritz14. Little One - 2001, McConnell15. A Distorted Reality Is Now a Necessity to Be Free - 2003, Fritz
― flappy bird, Thursday, 12 January 2017 20:25 (seven years ago) link
xp yeah it's a drag, I'm glad it's something like 70% complete at least. reading the visions and ideas McConnell and ES had for it is a real drag, would've been great...
it also sucks that McConnell wasn't consulted after Smith's death when the album was being sequenced & mixed, probably because they did drugs together while they were recording (there's a bit in the book Elliott Smith and the Big Nothing where McConnell talks about mixing Shooting Star totally coked out).
― flappy bird, Thursday, 12 January 2017 20:32 (seven years ago) link
Flappy, did you just write up that recording list from memory? If so, I salute you my friend.
New Moon is a record I revisit so so often. Feel it's overlooked a bit, so many great songs on there.
― Le Bateau Ivre, Thursday, 12 January 2017 20:34 (seven years ago) link
thanks! p much from memory, had to double check Don't Go Down. this is a great source btw for sessions histories: http://www.sweetaddy.com
― flappy bird, Thursday, 12 January 2017 20:40 (seven years ago) link
That is a great source, yes (but the compliment still stands)
― Le Bateau Ivre, Thursday, 12 January 2017 20:43 (seven years ago) link
Agree that someone (Dreamworks?) could do an excellent compilation of all the various bits and pieces worked into the FABOTH sessions - stuff like Stickman, True Love, See You In Heaven, O So Slow, Assassin, Let's Turn The Record Over, Abused ... piles of stuff still around but unofficial.
― in twelve parts (lamonti), Friday, 13 January 2017 17:24 (seven years ago) link
the people that made the Heaven Adores You movie had a real opportunity to do something like that, and imo the soundtrack was a serious letdown. if they had access and permission to release "True Love," which is from the Dreamworks years/Brion sessions, why did they pad the rest of the thing with songs taken straight off of already released albums? "LA," "Everything Means Nothing to Me," "Happiness," and "Son of Sam" are all already widely available on his records. And I hate that "The Last Hour" is listed as an early/alternate version, but it's exactly the same take that was put on Basement. What a waste of space. I'm pretty sure the family put the kibosh on releasing "Abused" and "Suicide Machine" back when Basement was compiled, but I don't know why they didn't include stuff like "Everything's Okay" or "Stickman." Actually, "See You in Heaven" would've been perfect for a soundtrack, given that it's an instrumental.
I mean, this Dreamworks era compilation already exists as a multi-disc bootleg called Grand Mal, y'all should check it out if you haven't, it's all over YouTube...
― flappy bird, Friday, 13 January 2017 18:07 (seven years ago) link
Hey I know this is my 3rd post in this thread about the same song. Someone mentioned to me that "Everybody Has It" was possibly written by Tony Lash and not Elliott. Was wondering if anyone can confirm/deny.
― billstevejim, Tuesday, 17 January 2017 21:10 (seven years ago) link
this one's a bit better:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzHsRMAz348
― flappy bird, Tuesday, 21 February 2017 15:32 (seven years ago) link
Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.
― System, Friday, 24 February 2017 00:01 (seven years ago) link
The whole of that show from Tempe (supporting Sebadoh) where the cover of either/or was shot is also on YouTube, from the other angle, albeit in slightly poorer quality.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBFvlYn6PhU
― in twelve parts (lamonti), Friday, 24 February 2017 11:17 (seven years ago) link
After much careful deliberation, I went with "Say Yes," which is the first Elliott Smith song I ever heard
― ridiculous perm ban decision (voodoo chili), Friday, 24 February 2017 18:10 (seven years ago) link
yesterday i read an interview between elliott and mary lou lord from early 1998, and elliott said he wrote Say Yes and Between the Bars in one sitting while watching Xena: Warrior Princess with the sound off 😳
― flappy bird, Friday, 24 February 2017 18:13 (seven years ago) link
i would like to ask elliott in what way does "i figured you out" sound like the eagles. love that song. mll does alright by it.
― rip van wanko, Friday, 24 February 2017 20:49 (seven years ago) link
Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.
― System, Saturday, 25 February 2017 00:01 (seven years ago) link
All songs accounted for. Marvelous, as it should be.
― Le Bateau Ivre, Saturday, 25 February 2017 00:06 (seven years ago) link
I had a moment where I thought I should have made sure 2:45 got one, but I'm glad someone was on it.
― woof, Saturday, 25 February 2017 00:22 (seven years ago) link