Sea Devils And Die: GeroniMoffat's Doctor Who In The 2010s

Anyway, I watched the Christmas special, and a nitpicker as I am, the main question in my mind afterwards was: where the fuck was this Ghost guy during all the times in the previous seasons when Earth was in peril?! Dude has Superman level powers, but he didn't do anything when the Cybermen or the Daleks or the Sycorax tried to conquer Earth, or when spaceship Titanic was about to hit it, etc? You'd think several of the earlier plots had gone a bit differently if he'd interfered? You can't just retcon a character who's that powerful as having always been there without explaining why he didn't do anything! Or was Moffat really suggesting that the Ghost did nothing when, say, alien robots dragged Earth across the galaxy and launched a full-scale attack on it, just because the Doctor told him as a kid that he shouldn't use his powers?

Also, the alien part of the episode was pretty obviously recycled from "Aliens of London" / "World War Three" (with a dash of Watchmen): evil aliens fake a spaceship crash so that they get prominent politicians into a place where they can kill them and impersonate them by wearing their skin, thus becoming secret rulers of humankind.

I think, in fairness, that what Moffat was going for was that the Ghost looked after Earth during the 24 years that the Doctor and River Song spent together after the previous Christmas Special. I'm not saying that makes logistical sense, mind you (but I'm also not sure it's really supposed to).

Yeah, it's not meant to*. Also, 1) he's not meant to be Superman-level, 2) he can't address any threats more than a borough or so away, bcz bb, 3) if Superman was Superman-level powered then there would never be any threats to the DC universe, so that's not much of a logical thread to pull.

*also infuriating if you want to try and map time & sense: 24 years after 1987 would have this set in 2011, when Osgood is only a low-level functionary at the place her dad used to work, not a significant figure who gets reports on international incidents

but the 24 years is only meant to be a passing reference to the last time we saw the Doctor. (Apart from Class.) More years may have taken place for him since the end of that 24, too.

I thought this Christmas Special was bad. Probably as bad as the Titanic: The Space Ship, but even less enjoyable. Nardole was the least of my complaints. I did like the concept of the brain aliens though, so their return as a smarter, more dangerous foe would be welcome. The Xmas episodes, I have to remind myself, are generally written with the casual audience in mind. At least James Corden wasn't in this one!

he's not meant to be Superman-level

Dude is invulnerable, can lift a spaceship (which must weigh tens of tons) using only his bad hand, and can break a glass that would withstand a nuclear explosion with the snap of his fingers. So yeah, I would say he's Superman level. He could be even more powerful, since the Doctor explains the crystal he swallowed pretty much does anything he wishes.

he can't address any threats more than a borough or so away, bcz bb

Why can't he? What does "bb" mean?

if Superman was Superman-level powered then there would never be any threats to the DC universe, so that's not much of a logical thread to pull.

Superman has successfully thwarted several alien invasions and other threats to Earth. So it's certainly inexplicable why this guy has seemingly done nothing, even though he's explicitly described as a massive do-gooder who wants to save as many lives as possible.

bb means baby

(Assuming from context)

Ah, okay... But the baby wasn't even a year old, so most of those threats to Earth that happened in previous seasons would've been before she was born.

And you can't use the publication date of the Superman comic to say that the present day in the episode is actually 2011, because as Sic says, the Osgood reference at the end of the episode wouldn't make sense then. Most likely young Grant simply had some older comics in his collection, as most comic book readers have.

Also Who is always retconning things, it is part of its DNA, you can just say what we saw in the past now happened differently because Dr 12 inadvertently created a superhuman, so what the doctor experienced no longer matches what the rest of us remember happening. Dr 11 says as much to Amy at one point, maybe in one of the S5 mini episodes? Just as the current version of Earth Who history no longer seems to contain Mondas visiting in 1986.

I thought about that explanation, but since the Doctor was heavily involved in thwarting those earlier threats to Earth, if the Ghost was doing the same, you'd think they had met in the past? Yet it's heavily implied neither has seen each other since Grant was a kid. Also, wanna bet than when those earlier events are referred to in future episodes, no one will mention that a mysterious superhero was there fighting the Daleks/Cybermen/Sycorax/Sontarans?

He is restricted in scope because he's got an alarm that goes off every 15 minutes that reminds him to go wank on one of her dresses.

You should probably not watch Torchwood. xp

ITT someone gets mad about mutable continuity in a show about mutable continuity

nu-who spends an inordinate amount of time in america. i understand the commercial reasons, but as a viewer who's not in america it's increasingly jarring.

― Autumn Almanac

as a viewer who is in america i can't understand the reasons. doctor who you suck at america. go back to wales.

in my first and only TV voice-over job i had to convince the (British) director that an American would never say, let alone understand, the word "rosette" in the context of receiving a prize. they would say "ribbon". it took an awfully long time to win the argument. less hard-headed ppl than me would have just been like, fuck it

<19>"What does "bb" mean?"

― Tuomas,</i>

it's something you masturbate in the same room as

gah fuck those html tags

"what's the deal with all this regressive male nanny talk. oh right women are the ones who make babies and that is their defining characteristic per moffat."

I think Moffat thought viewers would react this way to a male nanny and thus spent a lot of time pointing to the situation and going "no, you see, it's TOTALLY ALL RIGHT". Well intentioned but perhaps selling the general public of 2016 a bit short.

The viewing pubic in the U.K. voted for Brexit and the viewing public in the US elected Trump. If anything, he was giving viewers too much credit.

i live in progressive minded Berkeley and even here a male nanny is a rare exception; let's not pretend like there is complete gender parity in the nanny profession. pointing out the rarity of it isn't like saying "omg, a FEMALE doctor?"

Also this is for values of TOTALLY ALL RIGHT which include being a super-creeper.

As someone who's been pretty consistently into the Moffat era of the show, this was really, really bad. Mostly due to every element of the superhero plot, which seems like it could've easily been excised from the episode without really affecting the colonization plot at all.

let's not pretend like there is complete gender parity in the nanny profession. pointing out the rarity of it isn't like saying "omg, a FEMALE doctor?"

― akm, Saturday, 31 December 2016 04:54 (four hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

true, but it's not remarkable enough to point out explicitly. this is a show that (since 2005 especially) has women and men doing all sorts of things that weren't common 50 years ago, and everyone gets on with it and nobody bats an eyelid.

As someone who's been pretty consistently into the Moffat era of the show, this was really, really bad. Mostly due to every element of the superhero plot, which seems like it could've easily been excised from the episode without really affecting the colonization plot at all.

Except of course for the final resolution.

DJP, I doubt there's a considerable overlap between Trump/Brexit voters and people who watch Doctor Who tho.

The colonisation plot was pretty rote stuff in its own right, it was mainly there to give some conflict to the superhero plot. The whole thing felt super phoned in.

Yeah, it was pretty disappointing, because Dr. Who + superheroes could've provided a fertile mixture, but now both part of the story were stuff we're super predictable, there were none of the sort of cool surprises this sort of genre play could provide in the best case. The superhero identity hijinks were stuff we've seen for decades with Spider-Man/Superman/etc, and the alien invasion plot was recycled from "Aliens of London".

When does BBC start the new season? Only seeing it listed as Spring still.
Glad there'll be no Carla. Not sure about presence of Nardole, could become wearing.
Hope Bill will be ok.

I thought I heard the guy say April during the end credits.

yeah april.

there is no character named 'carla'

I enjoyed the special while it was on, but it was basically shit. I'd have resolved the romance subplot with her knocking him back for repeatedly neglecting her baby.

Like many people, enjoyed Lucas a lot more than I thought I would.

Next season trailer was exciting, but it always is.

more info on the new companion

possible minor spoiler even in the url, but that news is superb

Yes

Good second trailer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbJqNa0_Oz0

I quite want to discuss the final shot, but I know this thread is particilarly spoilerphobic.

well I am excited *shocker*

If you're a new-spoiler-hating twitter person, I'd avoid Twitter for the rest of the day...

yeah that was an unwelcome surprise, thx bbc :(

apparently footage leaked

It was in a trailer at the screening. Moffat told all present to keep the secret but the guy from the Sun broke the embargo :-((

the BBC should know by now that it can't trust anyone

spoiler is of the "not that shit again" variety.

that'll do, guys

I'm bemused, because I didn't think that was remotely a spoiler?

Ah okay, I meant the one at the end of the trailer - abanana otmfm

It's not a piece of news that fills me with great joy.

that was... fine