Mourning in America - Trump Year One: November '16 to

OK so at what point do I print our findings here and fax (for obvious reasons) this thread to Podesta?

maybe y'all can meet for pizza

It's worth noting that, since 1900, up until yesterday, there had been a total of five faithless Democratic electors. There were six yesterday. Six Democratic electors thought it terribly important to cast their votes against their party's candidate, who had already lost the election on paper. More than in the previous 116 years combined.

http://www.panoramicbusinesssolutions.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Dollarphotoclub_61989268-e1419519550495.jpg

nothing about the EC charade is "terribly important"

i bet Bill Clinton loved making the trip to Albany for the losing cause

(yes, that's right, Bubba was a fuckin' elector)

trump's good fortune in november has much less to do with his supposed 'strengths' (however we define them) and more to do with the fact that roughly half the voting public in america is human garbage.

xxposts

holy fuck you guys isn't it possible for something to have a long list of causes that can't be pithily summarized

sure. but in this case i'll stand by my assertion.

Great. I'm glad y'all have solved our problems.

Lock thread

It's worth noting that, since 1900, up until yesterday, there had been a total of five faithless Democratic electors. There were six yesterday. Six Democratic electors thought it terribly important to cast their votes against their party's candidate, who had already lost the election on paper. More than in the previous 116 years combined.

― Lauren Schumer Donor (Phil D.)

it's almost as if the left's spending the past month and a half saying that people in the electoral college ought to vote their conscience instead of listening to their party had some effect

"German officials haven't even released details about this yet, right? So we don't even know for certain that this was ISIS or any other Islamist group?"
it is not even sure that it was a terrorist attack in berlin. the suspect the police has arrested does not seem to be the driver of the truck.

it's almost as if the left's spending the past month and a half saying that people in the electoral college ought to vote their conscience instead of listening to their party had some effect

― increasingly bonkers (rushomancy), Tuesday, December 20, 2016 11:32 AM (seven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

How is this "the left"? The people I know pushing the faithless elector thing are all mainstream democrats. The lefties I know are rolling their eyes at people for seeking deus ex machina solutions.

the left's spending the past month and a half saying that people in the electoral college ought to vote their conscience instead of listening to their party

this was the center, just like it's the center that's now screaming that the election was scripted in the kremlin. in their grief they seem determined to stamp out the last embers of public faith in democratic institutions at the precise moment all of them have been seized by fascists. i don't know what they think they doing. xp.

they don't, and it fills me with SUCH confidence about the coming Resistance.

a nation turns its lonely eyes to HOOS

second "they" supposed to be "they're" xp

afaict HOOS is unceasingly cultivating disciples

How is this "the left"? The people I know pushing the faithless elector thing are all mainstream democrats. The lefties I know are rolling their eyes at people for seeking deus ex machina solutions.

― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive)

ok, if it's important for you to draw sharp distinctions between the democratic party and the left, substitute "mainstream democrats" if you like. my experience is that the differences on this issue aren't necessarily drawn around how far left you are, and i was using "left" as a big tent term. it wasn't the main point in any event. i'm profoundly disinterested in assigning blame for perceived "failures" that in reality make no difference to anyone.

this was the center, just like it's the center that's now screaming that the election was scripted in the kremlin. in their grief they seem determined to stamp out the last embers of public faith in democratic institutions at the precise moment all of them have been seized by fascists. i don't know what they think they doing. xp.

― difficult listening hour

well, it's either that or spend a great deal of effort trying to salvage basically unsalvageable institutions. come on, people, are we really going to spend the next four years doing nothing but complaining about the rump of the democratic party while trump gets to do whatever the fuck he wants?

who has said that?

most of us are saying that subverting the anachronistic but constitutionally empowered Electoral College plays into the general decay of institutions that would delight the Grover Norquists and Koch Brothers.

The people I know pushing the faithless elector thing are all mainstream democrats.

the people i know pushing the faithless elector thing are all people who have been (understandably) tremendously psychically damaged by this election, they aren't necessarily "mainstream democrats"

Our institutions are not "unsalvageable" at all, that's silly. I mean Trump may damage them a lot further, maybe they'll get there, but acting like they're already there is pathetic defeatism.

most of us are saying that subverting the anachronistic but constitutionally empowered Electoral College plays into the general decay of institutions that would delight the Grover Norquists and Koch Brothers.

― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, December 20, 2016 11:50 AM (two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

This is also extremely silly. Hillary lost the states she needed to win the electoral college by very small margins. There is really no reason why Democrats can't win in the electoral college. The system is irretrievably broken because we don't like the result.

i'm profoundly disinterested in assigning blame for perceived "failures" that in reality make no difference to anyone.

i don't know what to tell you. there are different political factions in this country and they have different ideas about what is happening and what to do about it. in my own experience the people who spent the last couple weeks crossing their fingers republicans would inexplicably vote themselves out of power have not been marxists. i think the next four years look worse for us if those are the sorts of schemes we can expect from our leaders.

spend a great deal of effort trying to salvage basically unsalvageable institutions

the creepingly general idea that america's institutions are "unsalvagable" is terrifying in this climate.

This is also extremely silly. Hillary lost the states she needed to win the electoral college by very small margins. There is really no reason why Democrats can't win in the electoral college. The system is irretrievably broken because we don't like the result.

Yes yes yes

I agree with that! 2016 was not 1984 or 1988.

OMB Director is an anti-Fed Bircher. Should go well.

If we want to eliminate the electoral college, then work to generate enthusiasm for an amendment. People still too psychically damaged by the election should get a hobby if they don't intend to help .

don't think abolishing the EC is going to do much, but enforcing the actual Constitution might. we're about to bestow the highest office in the land to a known con man who has disclosed nothing about his many businesses, investments, or debts, who has no real plan to divest himself of any of it, and who is already using the office for self-enrichment.

Our institutions are not "unsalvageable" at all, that's silly. I mean Trump may damage them a lot further, maybe they'll get there, but acting like they're already there is pathetic defeatism.

― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive)

defeatism! i'm proposing the opposite of defeatism. i'm proposing that we let go of the delusion that our institutions are going to save us. i'm proposing that we look at what happened in north carolina, look at the fact that we live in a country where a police officer can shoot a black man in the back anywhere, at any time, for any reason, and not have to answer to the law for it.

the american system was designed, in large part, to prevent a fascist demagogue from taking office. that system hasn't failed since 1828, and the last time it failed it led to civil war. fixing the problems requiring acknowledging the full extent of those problems.

Has the imperial presidency (and its attendant undeclared wars of the last 70 years, with the Forever War bill of Sept 2001 as the cherry on top) officially ascended to "institution"?

most of us are saying that subverting the anachronistic but constitutionally empowered Electoral College plays into the general decay of institutions that would delight the Grover Norquists and Koch Brothers.

― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, December 20, 2016 11:50 AM (two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

This is also extremely silly. Hillary lost the states she needed to win the electoral college by very small margins. There is really no reason why Democrats can't win in the electoral college. The system is irretrievably broken because we don't like the result.

― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Tuesday, December 20, 2016 11:53 AM (twenty-six minutes ago)

eh gotta split with you here -- the system is broken because the EC is dumb and fundamentally unjust

dlh otm upthread tho

don't think abolishing the EC is going to do much

uh, you're aware that all the republican presidents of the past 25 years have won precisely because the EC exists?

Dems gotta be willing to fight fire with fire if they want anything to happen. Obama played nice and reached across the aisle and look where he wound up, with Republican FBI Director James Comey. They need to confirm Garland NOW - I'm glad they're trying to respect our institutions but those institutions reward those who are nasty. They can no longer assume good intentions out of anyone in the GOP.

it's not just bad luck that it happened to hurt us the last two times it's been an issue. the EC as constructed specifically hurts the democrats, and it will continue to do so for as long as we remain a predominantly urban party

Dems could also improve their messaging to the "flyover states" which consistently vote against their own self-interest, I suppose

don't get me wrong the EC is dumb but we all knew the game going in. complaining about it afterwards is the sort of thing Trump would do.

well yeah not getting out the vote in states like WI/MI/PA is specifically clinton's fault for sure

electoral college is obv dumb and while it looks like we lost 00 and 16 because of it mostly due to unhappy accident, if the midwest keeps turning red we could be in a position where it's actually kinda fixed against us for an extended period.

but getting rid of it is not in the realm of the possible, especially not anytime soon. the only way I see it going away is if both dems and republicans feel like they're getting burned by it, like if the gop loses the next 2 elections in a row while winning the popular vote we could be in a place where *everyone* kinda resents the electoral college and small states / swing states might overlook the fact that they actually benefit from it.

EC is dumb and fundamentally unjust i agree but i'm skeptical of attempts to end it or undermine it by NPVIC, they seem somewhat futile when one party that happens to have overwhelming political power in both federal and state govts continues to benefit from it. i mean NPVIC is a start but what happens when red states don't care about it? what do you suggest doing about the EC?

iatee otm

yup, correct

I mean how about we petition to end the senate too, it's even more unjust!

You think the EC gives disproportionate power? Wyoming gets the same number of senators as California!

Next time we have congress we should really make DC a state. Maybe split California in two while we're at it.

yeah the electoral college gets things right most of the time anyway, whereas the senate (and even the house) are democratically unrepresentative 100% of the time

smashing the so-called leadership of the Democratic Party would work better, thankyaverymuch

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