Mourning in America - Trump Year One: November '16 to

uh yeah seems like focusing (relatively more) on the people who actually decide the election might be...a good idea

fucking genius over here

no instead let's "reform our election system", a totally not vague and achievable goal

I think the solution is to burn down all the Cracker Barrels.

looking forward to k3vin k.'s big plan to win over the rust belt burbs - the only Americans that matter

anybody who talks about reforming the electoral college on a state-by-state basis clearly a fuckin' clown

k3vin have you seen any good articles about the people who supported Trump? I don't know of any, I'd really like to learn more about the priorities and worldviews of Real Americans and perhaps something of the milieu in which they live. I'm sure none of the coastal elite publications I read sent any reporters to red counties, much less any actual Trump rallies, so if you could hook me up with some links that'd be great

as long as they're inside the cracker barrels

Maybe it's not either/or

I'm sure none of the coastal elite publications I read sent any reporters to red counties, much less any actual Trump rallies, so if you could hook me up with some links that'd be great

here u go

http://www.mtv.com/news/2937584/how-i-spent-my-summer-vacation/

tom, the good news is that in 4 years the "election system" is going to be reformed and we won't need any of their votes. and if we lose again, we can at least hold onto our sense of superiority that we won the popular vote!

that IS good news! thanks buddy

the impeachment shit is a pipe dream. dems are in the minority

― k3vin k.

_everything_ is a pipe dream for the dems right now. they can do _nothing_. stoking the fires of distrust and hatred against somebody who, honestly, quite deserves the distrust and hatred of pretty much everybody in the world doesn't strike me as "same old shit".

i think you and adam are wrong to think that the people who voted trump, by and large, be won back by democrats on a _policy_ level - at least, not by any policy the democrats could in good conscience endorse. kaine & co are correct to conclude this election was not decided on policy issues.

those of us who disagree with their policy approach can and should push through sandersite ideology in the primaries, but just because we disagree with their policies does not make those policies the primary reason for the democrats' failure.

The idea that Trump voters can't be won back is fundamentally wrong, even moreso in the Rust Belt areas that matter - it's self-defeating and pointless to do anything if you're going to assume that Trump's support is rock-steady and unchanging. The number don't show that - without Comey's letter, Hillary wins. With a candidate who doesn't have historically bad unfavorables, the Democrats win. Even with the Electoral College, which is never, ever going to go away.

Jumping straight from saying that to "oh so you think we should just focus on white suburbanites" is bullshit.

I'd say that without Hillary, Hillary wins.

Democrats need to emphasize that they believe a solid, stable society starts with strong civic institutions that protect people from economic precarcity, and regulations that prevent them and the environment from being exploited and abused. The idea that white men just won't be into this stuff is so senselessly cynical. It needs to be messaged better.

― Treeship, Sunday, December 18, 2016 2:22 PM (forty-four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this is like David Brooks from the left

Well, all this focus on embittered rust belt voters is a distraction because it conveniently ignores the well-off exurbans who always vote GOP and didn't GAF about the candidate's racism and misogyny because IOKIYAR.

Useful class guide: anyone with a mortgage is some kind of middle class.

xp

i.e, you're just describing Clinton's campaign. as she lost, it's not hopelessly cynical to think that wouldn't work

Democratic Party: Dear white midwestern people, did you know you get free stuff under our plan? You do!

GOP: they won't tell you this but the blacks and browns and gays get that free stuff TOO

Milwaukee suburbs: well fuck that noise! MAGA

Guh, hi from WIsconsin, where this could not be more wrong.

Wisconsin voters went for Tammy Baldwin, a lesbian and an outspoken liberal from Madison, in large numbers. They voted for Obama twice, again in large numbers.

The Milwaukee suburbs? Yeah, those places aren't going to vote Republican ever, any more than Madison and Dane County generally are gonna vote Republican. But those are movement Republicans, wealthy suburbs defined by white flight from "scary" Milwaukee. They are not swing districts and they are not that big. When Democrats win Wisconsin, which they often do, they win without those places.

If you want to know who voted for Obama and Trump, it's rural voters and to some extent voters in the smaller metro areas like Green Bay. They've voted for Democrats before and they'll vote for Democrats again -- possibly as soon as they realize the Medicare they love is about to turn into a clone of the Obamacare they hate. I doubt many of them go to Trump rallies. I think they're voting on some general vague sense of "throw the bums out" and I think the steady hammer of "Clinton is a crook Clinton is a crook Clinton is a crook" gained some purchase there.

the electoral college isn't going to last another decade

http://www.salon.com/2008/11/03/racists_for_obama/

kaine & co are correct

and yet they lost, almost as if winning elections is not about being correct.

look, i don't know what kind of midwesterns you guys have met. on the whole they seem like nice people with a reputation for being overly polite.

so suzy, milo z and eephus all seem to be making a similar point which is that there are Obama/Trump voters and then there are movement conservatives and the Obama/Trump voters can be probably won back by not having EMAILS win the headlines almost daily - which is to say, there's not much from a policy perspective that Dems need to change

rushomancy puts it best but got there too soon, should have sat on that post imho

That forks into two conversations, though. A better candidate can squeak out what we expected of Hillary without much changing, but if Democrats want to use future demographic changes to win big (in Congress and the states) the same old same old isn't going to do that.

the steady hammer of "Clinton is a crook Clinton is a crook Clinton is a crook" gained some purchase there

fwiw there is a compilation of Norm MacDonald trashing the Clintons on Weekend Update on youtube. half the jokes are about how much she lies, and this was in 1996.

Democrats relying on "demographics" need to start telling me what their plan is for winning gerrymandered congressional districts and state legislatures.

And how they're going to improve turnout among poor black and hispanic voters in an environment where it's only going to get harder for them to vote.

the gerrymandering isn't going to last another decade

Do the democrats have a good plan for 2020, and how do we know the Republicans don't have some even more devious shit up their sleeves?

1.No, and 2. a lot of people are assuming there won't be elections

By what mechanism are the 20 states with the populations of small metro areas going to consent to ending the only thing making them politically relevant?

u mean the electoral college or the senate?

Why would democrats not try to fight gerrymandering/the electoral college *and* sharpen their message to combat right wing propaganda?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Popular_Vote_Interstate_Compact

fwiw there is a compilation of Norm MacDonald trashing the Clintons on Weekend Update on youtube. half the jokes are about how much she lies, and this was in 1996.

I'm not sure this proves what you think this proves, unless you meant to highlight that she was fighting a 20-year wall of bullshit.

Where are you going to get the 85 additional electoral votes you still need for the national popular vote thing to mean anything at all, and how are you going to get any states with red state legislatures to pass it?

it proves she was a risky candidate. its not like Trump just came up with this strategy and EMAILS are what did them in. she has 20 years of bad press and instead of countering it they relied on the media hyping up Trump's worst qualities.

I don't know, man alive. Still waiting on k3vin and Adam to turn in their proposals on how to bring the Real American voters back into the fold, then none of the electoral college reform ideas or counter-gerrymandering stuff is even necessary

Have you guys figured out why Trump won yet

we didn't listen to Iago Galdston

i don't have any "ideas", and neither does anyone itt. i'm pretty pessimistic about the future and i just find the straw-grasping ("trump will be impeached, just watch", "the electoral college will be gone in 10 years", etc) laughable. finding humor in our shared doom is merely an ego defense

all the same people who were supremely confident in everything that went wrong a month and a half ago are now also optimistic about the future because of these far-fetched escape hatches, one weird tricks, etc. we're fucked.

you and larry appleton should go on a date

You're kind of being a dick in this thread el tomboto

America will be radically transformed & possibly decimated under Pres. Trump but the electoral college and gerrymandering will endure for centuries

i don't have any "ideas", and neither does anyone itt. i'm pretty pessimistic about the future and i just find the straw-grasping ("trump will be impeached, just watch", "the electoral college will be gone in 10 years", etc) laughable.

otm

u mean the electoral college or the senate?

Both or either. "Abolishing the EC" would have to be tied pretty heavily into Senate reform.

Neither of which will happen until global thermonuclear war breaks into a dozen rump states ruled by warlords.

i don't have any "ideas", and neither does anyone itt. i'm pretty pessimistic about the future and i just find the straw-grasping ("trump will be impeached, just watch", "the electoral college will be gone in 10 years", etc) laughable. finding humor in our shared doom is merely an ego defense

― k3vin k., Sunday, December 18, 2016 4:21 PM (fifteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yup

yeah I need to gtfo this thread