Mourning in America - Trump Year One: November '16 to

That's called messaging

most privileged people behave with depraved indifference towards disadvantaged lives. it's not just a color or gender thing. ignore that and keep losing elections, gerrymandered democrats

The only thing not worthless that's come out of Joe Scarborough's mouth in the last few months was when he wondered why Hillary couldn't have responded to the first public "How do you feel?" question after her pneumonia with, "Like crap!" and laughed.

this was michael moore; no need to soften our posture on joe.

i know we've been litigating this forever but clearly there were some GOTV and campaigning mistakes made in MI, WI, PA, assuming the vote there was locked up when it wasn't. i don't think HRC actually did a bad job with messaging, it is clearly a reasonable thing when running against a monster to highlight how much that person is a monster, i don't think one should fault her campaign for that

clearly there were some GOTV and campaigning mistakes made in MI, WI, PA

yeah, I'm not denying this. My comments are more big-picture, "what is the big lesson" type stuff

yes we can vs i'm with her

which one of these is a far, far better political slogan?

Do you think the answer to this is supposed to be obvious?

idk about "far, far" but yeah obviously obama's was better

the only left-leaning people i knew that were PUMPED TO VOTE this year were bernie sanders voters during the primary

they could have easily given him a VP position and pocketed that sweet enthusiasm. instead they used the DNC to mock his supporters! incredible

I mean, that's what drives me nuts, people keep saying "Clinton never said exactly what she was going to deliver, she just rolled out vague platitudes about national unity and pride and let people talk about the historic nature of her run, no wonder she lost" when the last two elections were won by large margins by a dude who did exactly that. What were Obama's campaign promises? Besides that we should feel hope and do change? I guess "close Guantanamo." But what else? In 2008 I guess there was some reasonable argument that Obama would draw down the war more quickly than McCain, but in 2012?

Elections are won by people with vague meaningless slogans and no concrete proposals except for "doesn't it feel good to vote for me" ALL THE TIME.

2008 Obama was a huge critic of the Iraq War.

the only left-leaning people i knew that were PUMPED TO VOTE this year were bernie sanders voters during the primary

also I don't know what kind of weird bubble you have to live in to not know people who were pumped to vote for hillary. or people who cried when she lost, not because they're scared of trump but because they were super psyched about hrc being president and then it all slipped away at the last moment.

were people as pumped as they were for obama? no, but it's not because of her slogan, it's because obama is better at this than she is, but obama is better at this than ANYBODY is.

obama benefited from not being hillary clinton, for starters. also uh healthcare xxp

I don't remember health care being a significant issue in 2008. Clinton had a plan too.

eephus otm

no, but it's not because of her slogan, it's because obama is better at this than she is

hence him coming up w a better slogan.

did you listen to many HRC speeches? i didn't hear all that many, but she openly admitted to being a rather uninspiring pol/speaker.

I don't remember health care being a significant issue in 2008. Clinton had a plan too.

― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, December 14, 2016 5:15 PM (four minutes ago)

thought we were talking about the general election

eephus otm

― Οὖτις, Wednesday, December 14, 2016 5:16 PM (three minutes ago)

guy from san francisco agrees that people were super excited about clinton this year, lmao

sorry

xpost

I live in Cleveland and knew plenty of people -- mostly women, all ethnicities -- who were insanely excited about voting for Clinton, and openly wept when she lost, so don't make this into some "lol COASTAL ELITES" thing.

well that just about proves it

so we agree, hillary clinton was a good candidate

I was referring more to this stuff k3vin

Elections are won by people with vague meaningless slogans and no concrete proposals except for "doesn't it feel good to vote for me" ALL THE TIME.

were people as pumped as they were for obama? no, but it's not because of her slogan, it's because obama is better at this than she is, but obama is better at this than ANYBODY is.

personally most people I knew were pumped for Bernie

I live in Wisconsin. Surrounded by people who were pumped for Bernie and then subsequently pumped for Hillary. It's not some kind of computer-killing paradox, we're talking about two people who are just not very far from each other in their vision of governance

so we agree, hillary clinton was a good candidate

as good as obama? hell no

as good as bernie sanders or joe biden or martin o'malley would have been? yes

as good as john kerry? substantially better

hence him coming up w a better slogan

why do you think obama "came up with" that slogan? i would be shocked if it weren't generated by the same dem party pros who came up with "i'm with her" and "stronger together." that's their job. "yes we can" is borrowed from chavez of course and axelrod says obama didn't even like it

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/barackobama/11414185/Barack-Obama-thought-Yes-We-Can-slogan-was-too-corny.html

Lake Erie coastal elites

as good as bernie sanders or joe biden or martin o'malley would have been? yes

could we stop this, bcz it seems we simply have different definitions/views of reality

Just heard someone posit that perhaps Trump doesn't even know what the department of energy does - nuclear arsenal and all that - and that is why he picked Rick Perry, thinking it was about drilling and oil and stuff like that.

it wouldn't surprise me

as good as bernie sanders or joe biden or martin o'malley would have been? yes

yes, very likely that bernie would have also lost michigan, wisconsin, and pennsylvania

entirely possible

hypotheticals can't be proven

#stillwithher

as I've said many times on this very thread already, post-mortems and straw-grasping are of next to no interest to me, would prefer we were talking about Trump's presidency

Bernie won WI 56 to 43 BTW

xp: why do that when we could spend time talking shit about Clinton

god you guys are fucking tiresome. primary /= general election, Bernie was never really attacked w negative ads/Trump tweets/GOP noise machine yadda yadda yadda why are we having this argument you already know are the counter-arguments

all the counter-arguments

one definitive way that we can fight against the things we dislike about Trump's administration is to spend as much time as we possibly can bitching about how Hillary Clinton was a terrible candidate and human being

well that just about proves it

― k3vin k., Wednesday, December 14, 2016 5:25 PM (twenty-eight minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Don't be a fucking weasel.

https://66.media.tumblr.com/0aa778479a7280b2e4f32a08cd7ad505/tumblr_mjd4jxZvSH1qzsq0xo1_500.gif

The election's over. I thought we all knew.

(don't want to seem above it tho, bernie woulda won)

getting back on topic: steve bannon should be skinned alive

instead increase allocation of resource X to sector Y by 15%, assuming that it is correct that sector Y's historical trend of voting on issue Z continues to increase by 5% per annum, an assumption based upon a number of factors

This reminds me of the one professor who got plenty of the press this for "predicting every Presidential outcome since 1984! (...except 2000)"

Which had some sorta weird calculus like Marx trying to throw out how to figure the value of a thing thru algebra or something; This weird mechanicism historicism that doesn't nec. take into effect the multi-variable random dumbness of all human affairs at all levels.

It's not some kind of computer-killing paradox, we're talking about two people who are just not very far from each other in their vision of governance

That is pretty clearly nonsense.

iirc, bernie just wanted to do it all but hillary understood that change is incremental

next four years are gonna be a hell of an increment

crut otm