in 2016 no innocent unarmed people are murdered by law-enforcers, of course xp
― There shouldn't be a thread for Dennis Perrin tweets (stevie), Wednesday, 14 December 2016 15:48 (seven years ago) link
or inspired to take up arms by ludicrous fictions shared on social media
― Rush Limbaugh and Lou Reed doing sex with your parents (bizarro gazzara), Wednesday, 14 December 2016 15:49 (seven years ago) link
xp my dad's experience of the 60s and 70s was "being in the Army, with most of 1966-1971 in Vietnam." My mom's was "sitting on Army bases and shitty civilian apartments raising two kids." Exciting. I know that 1972 was the last time my dad ever voted for a Republican president, since doing so got him promptly sent back into combat.
altho Kasich just rejected the "heartbeat abortions" bill in Ohio
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/12/13/505457437/ohio-gov-kasich-signs-20-week-abortion-limit-rejects-heartbeat-bill
― Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, December 14, 2016 8:24 AM (two hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
The fact that both bills reached his desk the same day is not a coincidence. The one was presented as a distraction so he could veto it and sign the other while looking "reasonable." A 20 week ban is still complete bullshit. Kasich has signed 18 - 18!!! - anti-abortion laws during his term in office and been on the anti-PP bandwagon since day one. He's no more reasonable than any of these other fucksticks.
― and this section is called boner (Phil D.), Wednesday, 14 December 2016 15:52 (seven years ago) link
I'd posit that, under Trump, the likelihood that you'll be sharing your parents' experience is sadly quite high, Adam.
― The Pleasure Principal (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 14 December 2016 15:53 (seven years ago) link
Comparing Kasich to Trump is meaningless at this point, especially because establishment conservatives deserve no leeway due to their apparent willingness to support Trump. (I know Kasich himself is a notable exception to this, although, importantly, not notable enough to endorse Hillary.)
But being serious, Trump is a unique threat to the Republic in ways that go far beyond policy. He is supporting all the horrible, anti-woman, anti-government stuff the Republicans always support but as a bonus he is also literally a malignant narcissist with authoritarian aims and absolutely no ability to make discerning choices when it comes to issues of national security, the environment, etc.
― Treeship, Wednesday, 14 December 2016 16:01 (seven years ago) link
but is he dangerous?
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 14 December 2016 16:02 (seven years ago) link
Idk. I wouldn't hire him as my dogwalker.
― Treeship, Wednesday, 14 December 2016 16:06 (seven years ago) link
If John Kasich wanted to be my dogwalker he might make it past the first round of interviews.
― Treeship, Wednesday, 14 December 2016 16:10 (seven years ago) link
when was this chance?
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 14 December 2016 16:13 (seven years ago) link
it is true that life is in many (but not all) ways better for people of color, women, and queers than it was in 1974, but let's see what the future holds fight the future.
― Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 14 December 2016 16:16 (seven years ago) link
he election of Trump is a direct affront to any movement in this direction, from civil rights to the environment to education to diplomacy, the reactionary drumbeat of "anti-PC" basically an aggressive fuck you to empathy, which is key to progress. I've noted it earlier, but for all this country's faults going forward, we've really yet to go backwards.
Look at 1964 and 1968. At the height of achievement you can see the abyss below you. That's history, man. It's a bitch.
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 14 December 2016 16:20 (seven years ago) link
it's not a straight line, etc
are you saying that the arc of the moral universe is more of a scribble
― El Tomboto, Wednesday, 14 December 2016 16:24 (seven years ago) link
it's more of a Mad Libs.
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 14 December 2016 16:28 (seven years ago) link
the arc of the moral universe bends toward Kanye
― Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 14 December 2016 16:30 (seven years ago) link
I've noted it earlier, but for all this country's faults going forward, we've really yet to go backwards.
http://media1.s-nbcnews.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/031208/031208_reaganobit_hmedium.grid-6x2.jpg
― difficult listening hour, Wednesday, 14 December 2016 16:32 (seven years ago) link
("this facial expression" there, dragged into optimism+triumph by sheer will)
― difficult listening hour, Wednesday, 14 December 2016 16:33 (seven years ago) link
I'm one of those minorities that has benefitted from the constitutional advances of the last 20 years but, no, I don't think history evolves unceasingly.
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 14 December 2016 16:36 (seven years ago) link
No one answered my question about who has grounds to sue the president for violating the Emoluments Clause.
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 14 December 2016 16:39 (seven years ago) link
xxp DLH otm
― bernard snowy, Wednesday, 14 December 2016 16:40 (seven years ago) link
I'm hoping Perlstein is at work on a Reagan-to-Trump book.
― clemenza, Wednesday, December 14, 2016 10:37 AM (fifty-four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
did you see https://washingtonspectator.org/press-trump-perlstein/ (posted previously)?
― 𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Wednesday, 14 December 2016 16:41 (seven years ago) link
man do I love Ronnie's hair
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 14 December 2016 16:42 (seven years ago) link
Romney wouldn't.
― ¶ (DJP), Wednesday, 14 December 2016 16:47 (seven years ago) link
you're saying you don't want your dog strapped to the top of the car and driven cross country for 14 hours?
― 龜, Wednesday, 14 December 2016 17:12 (seven years ago) link
It's not who has grounds, it's who has standing, and so far nobody seems to have a good answer. The prohibition of generalized grievances seems like it would apply here, so Adler's WaPo blog on the topic is probably an accurate take: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2016/11/21/the-emoluments-clause-is-donald-trump-violating-its-letter-or-spirit/
Whether or not one concludes that Trump’s business dealings violate the letter or the spirit of the Emoluments Clause, the underlying controversy is almost certainly non-justiciable. It is difficult to conceive of a scenario in which someone would have standing to challenge Trump’s arrangements, and even harder to think what sort of remedy could be ordered by a court. In other words, if there are concerns about how President Trump handles his various investments, the only remedies will be political.
non-justiciable, son
― El Tomboto, Wednesday, 14 December 2016 17:15 (seven years ago) link
Didnt know that was a word
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 14 December 2016 17:21 (seven years ago) link
You'll probably have ample opportunity to familiarize yourself with its usage in the coming years.
― The Pleasure Principal (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 14 December 2016 17:23 (seven years ago) link
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/michigan-hillary-clinton-trump-232547
In results that narrow, Clinton’s loss could be attributed to any number of factors — FBI Director Jim Comey’s letter shifting late deciders, the lack of a compelling economic message, the apparent Russian hacking. But heartbroken and frustrated in-state battleground operatives worry that a lesson being missed is a simple one: Get the basics of campaigning right.Clinton never even stopped by a United Auto Workers union hall in Michigan, though a person involved with the campaign noted bitterly that the UAW flaked on GOTV commitments in the final days, and that AFSCME never even made any, despite months of appeals.The anecdotes are different but the narrative is the same across battlegrounds, where Democratic operatives lament a one-size-fits-all approach drawn entirely from pre-selected data — operatives spit out “the model, the model,” as they complain about it — guiding Mook’s decisions on field, television, everything else. That’s the same data operation, of course, that predicted Clinton would win the Iowa caucuses by 6 percentage points (she scraped by with two-tenths of a point), and that predicted she’d beat Bernie Sanders in Michigan (he won by 1.5 points).
Clinton never even stopped by a United Auto Workers union hall in Michigan, though a person involved with the campaign noted bitterly that the UAW flaked on GOTV commitments in the final days, and that AFSCME never even made any, despite months of appeals.
The anecdotes are different but the narrative is the same across battlegrounds, where Democratic operatives lament a one-size-fits-all approach drawn entirely from pre-selected data — operatives spit out “the model, the model,” as they complain about it — guiding Mook’s decisions on field, television, everything else. That’s the same data operation, of course, that predicted Clinton would win the Iowa caucuses by 6 percentage points (she scraped by with two-tenths of a point), and that predicted she’d beat Bernie Sanders in Michigan (he won by 1.5 points).
― k3vin k., Wednesday, 14 December 2016 17:36 (seven years ago) link
yup. The story I read about the computer in the back office behind the locked door - Ada, wasn't it called? is way worse than any email server bullshit. It's bad sci-fi.
― El Tomboto, Wednesday, 14 December 2016 17:47 (seven years ago) link
this one; https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/11/09/clintons-data-driven-campaign-relied-heavily-on-an-algorithm-named-ada-what-didnt-she-see/
― El Tomboto, Wednesday, 14 December 2016 17:48 (seven years ago) link
You have to wonder if Clinton's health and endurance was partly also why they didn't do more of those smaller directed outreach in some states.
― earlnash, Wednesday, 14 December 2016 17:53 (seven years ago) link
you don't have to, really
― jason waterfalls (gbx), Wednesday, 14 December 2016 17:55 (seven years ago) link
the fact that in the last 24 hours i've read that politico article plus an article that claimed - with quotes from campaign workers -that podesta got hacked because he asked the tech dude whether an obvious phishing email asking him to change his password was a phishing scam or not and the tech dude answered back via email "this is a legitimate email" when he meant to write "this is an illegitimate email" are really boggling my mind
― harold melvin and the bluetones (jim in vancouver), Wednesday, 14 December 2016 17:59 (seven years ago) link
smaller directed outreach
fwiw they just didn't even go to some states at all, like Wisconsin and Michigan. i don't know about the health/endurance line, they still found time to fly home to NY every day to catch the evening news.
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Wednesday, 14 December 2016 18:02 (seven years ago) link
this quote from that politico article:
But there also were millions approved for transfer from Clinton’s campaign for use by the DNC — which, under a plan devised by Brazile to drum up urban turnout out of fear that Trump would win the popular vote while losing the electoral vote, got dumped into Chicago and New Orleans, far from anywhere that would have made a difference in the election.
― harold melvin and the bluetones (jim in vancouver), Wednesday, 14 December 2016 18:08 (seven years ago) link
iirc the big GOTV insight of the obama campaign was that direct and repeated contact between prospective voters and canvassers was by far the most effective method of ensuring turnout. that the hrc campaign went in a totally different direction is just mind-boggling.
― lettered and hapful (symsymsym), Wednesday, 14 December 2016 18:10 (seven years ago) link
the best fuckups money can buy
see also
https://twitter.com/gatorgoat/status/809064589715456000
― Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 14 December 2016 18:16 (seven years ago) link
It's not who has grounds, it's who has standing, and so far nobody seems to have a good answer.
If nothing else, I should think that members of the Congress would have standing, as representatives of a coequal branch of government under the Constitution.
― a little too mature to be cute (Aimless), Wednesday, 14 December 2016 18:17 (seven years ago) link
well the House can initiate impeachment proceedings (I'm sure) for violations of the Emoluments Clause, how likely do you think Paul Ryan is to allow that
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 14 December 2016 18:26 (seven years ago) link
Which reminded me of something brought up earlier this year, that the reason Wasserman-Schulz was still head of the DNC was that the 2008/2008 Obama For America orgs disbanded after victory, whereas one group probably should have replaced the other.
― THE SKURJ OF FAKE NEWS. (kingfish), Wednesday, 14 December 2016 18:29 (seven years ago) link
those are good tweets. I knew there was a reason we brought you back
― El Tomboto, Wednesday, 14 December 2016 18:39 (seven years ago) link
not sure how enamored I am with obama for america when they spent their last days pimping the goddamn TPP
― carthago delenda est (mayor jingleberries), Wednesday, 14 December 2016 19:14 (seven years ago) link
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/13/us/politics/russia-hack-election-dnc.html?_r=0
the depth and breadth of incompetence is truly astounding
― k3vin k., Wednesday, 14 December 2016 19:50 (seven years ago) link
i don't really buy kevin drum's curiously fatalistic take on the election but it's worth considering
http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2016/12/stop-it-there-are-no-big-lessons-2016-election
― goole, Wednesday, 14 December 2016 20:20 (seven years ago) link
elite/well-connected/hillary-partisan dems really are trying to settle on a CW that everything was great except for comey and putin and the damned 'white working class'
we're just going to have an endless retread of the primary instead of any kind of honest self-examination from the party, aren't we.
― goole, Wednesday, 14 December 2016 20:23 (seven years ago) link
p much
― jason waterfalls (gbx), Wednesday, 14 December 2016 20:32 (seven years ago) link
I dunno, blame game + zero self-examination seems to be working pretty well for the other side.
― My Lunch Is Older Than Your Lunch (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 14 December 2016 20:34 (seven years ago) link
^^^
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 14 December 2016 20:35 (seven years ago) link
― goole
until the 2016 dem primary when they get pounded to dust, yes.
― increasingly bonkers (rushomancy), Wednesday, 14 December 2016 20:35 (seven years ago) link
yea it sucks but drum's not entirely wrong imo, in a few even very slightly different scenarios this would've been the clinton victory everybody predicted. a few more visits to WI, MI, PA, whatever, and that could've been that. doesn't change the picture for democrats in state governments though
― marcos, Wednesday, 14 December 2016 20:35 (seven years ago) link