NO DAPL and other pipeline concerns - Keystone, etc.

Yeah, lying and misleading is bad, and that facebook writer is clearly lying and misleading about his opinion on Native Americans.

He is also getting a lot of his facts correct about the planning of the project, which has otherwise been lied about. Read the court documents and injunction filed by the Stand Rock, read the Army Cops findings, the permits, the state historical society of north dakota ruling which Standing Rock is a broad member of. Every time I show these to people and ask them to read them, they bring up slogans or tell me you work in the industry of course.

What seems to be in dispute is whether or not the Army Corps dealt with the Standing Rock Sioux as a Sovereign Tribe, or whether they dealt with them as any other interest group. The Department of Justice has written that this case gives cause to rethink the entire relationship between the two, so somebody thinks the Army Corps screwed up, and it's not just fringe liars.

So many people I know here in Austin are in support of the protest, joining in a local protest. All of the land in Texas and much of the southwest were obtained by breaking the Adams Onis Treaty, the Texas revolution and the Invasion of Mexico This land was stole from the The Caddoes of East Texas, the Karankawas of the Gulf Coast and the Coahuiltecans of the Rio Grande and later the Norteño Apaches and Comanches tribes. All of whose descendants still live here, my wife is one of them, but people look at her and call her Mexican. For the last 20 years the white people of Austin turned a blind eye to the wholesale gentrification of East Austin. Now the property taxes are forcing those same descendants out of their homes. Where were these protestors then, fighting for a fully integrated community? But now white people are caring about indigenous people because a big bad oil pipeline is involved? The inconsistency of this sickens me to my stomach.

Standing Rock is a flashpoint. You can't predict where and how the outrage will coalesce and solidify. Pointing out that it didn't happen somewhere else doesn't detract from the legitimacy of the Standing Rock claim.

Also, I'd venture to guess that the organization level and tribal unity of the North Dakota Sioux is quite a bit stronger than the Texas tribes you mentioned.

The Texas tribes I was speaking of is what we call Mexican Americans.

And yes I can point out the inconsistency of why people rally around something that is far away and what is right in front of their doorsteps.

sure, you can say it's inconsistent

but saying the inconsistency "sickens" you is implying, to me, that you don't see the Standing Rock protests as legitimate unless the same thing was happening everywhere else? I'm pretty sure that's a logical fallacy. It's perfectly reasonable for the ND Sioux to pursue a broken treaty claim while others don't choose to, or take a different approach. begrudging the Sioux's wider support seems unreasonable.

idk why "white people" care about this more than other (similar) native issues, but yes it is problematic to some degree as the "burning man" article you posted made clear (and I liked that btw). but again, you can't predict flashpoints. and there's a ton of native people there from all over. a friend of mine from the Siletz tribe flew there to dig toilets for a week. she got pneumonia :(

It's my understanding that the Bismarck proposed route was rejected because it eliminated 10 miles, would have been within 500 ft of homes, and took out muliple road bores. One a road bore cost about $20,000. The route they choose was due previously disturbed ground, The Northern Boarder Pipeline's ROW.

wonder how much they would have saved by now if they had chosen this path.

If there was more honesty from David Archambault about his claims concerning ETC then yes I would give the protest more legitimacy. But as it stands nearly everything he has claimed has been untrue. I've been following this project since it's initial planning stages in 2012 because there was a chance I was going to be involved. When the protest first started and Mr. Archambault started saying to the press that their community was never contacted I knew it wasn't true. Then it was reported by friends of my at the protest that Michels the contractor had started clearing a right of way on sacred ground, I also knew that wasn't true. All of this information is in public domain and easily accessible. ETC used a preexisting archeological survey from a previous contractor that was resubmitted and given over to the State Historical Society of North Dakota who reviewed every site and individually visited each site that was questionable. Standing Rock is on this board and was a part of this investigation in 2014. I don't understand why none of this has been addressed or brought up. It really bothers me and I would think anyone interested in knowing the truth would want to know as well.

The thing is, though, what board Standing Rock was a member of doesn't matter. They had a right to be consulted as a sovereign tribe, not board members of a State Historical Society.

I do get your frustration, it must be really annoying to see people dress their irrational anger at pipelines up in faux concern for Native American issues (as the Burning Man description makes clear, and as I've seen several tribe-members complain about as well) but that doesn't mean the Tribe's grievances aren't legitimate.

Why does everyone keep asking why Standing Rock wasn't contracted? When they were repeatedly. By ETC the company who will own the pipeline that made repeated attempts to contact Standing Rock, but phone calls, letters, and repeated in face house calls, as well as Town hall meetings? Also by the USACE, by FERC, and by Michles land agents. I bring up the State Historical Society because that is who oversees scared sites which could be disturbed by construction. Have you guys read the court filings I keep asking you to read?

sorry for my poor grammar. I should sleep.

Yeah, I read it. It says the tribe didn't respond to attempts to consult them, because the Army Corps refused to consult on anything other than water passages. The Advisory Council on Historic Preservation backed up the tribe on this last may, according to another link you posted. The Department of Justice, Department of Interior, and Department of the Army also said last september that this case has highlighted the need for a serious discussion on whether there should be nationwide reform with respect to considering tribes’ views on these types of infrastructure projects It sounds to me as if the Tribe's view on the whole process is quite legitimate.

isn't the Army Corps main role in any construction project water passages?

Seems like it. That's what will be discussed. What other government-to-government way is there for discussing impact outside of water passages?

Well there's FERC and DOT to start with, as well as PHMSA. When a pipeline crossing state lines it becomes even more regulated, but as of Jan 1, 2016 that will change and any pipeline carrying liquids or gas within a state or crossing a state boarder will be federally regulated, before and after construction. I've been waiting for this law that was signed in 2014 to take effect. Companies have been given a grace period to meet compliance until this coming year. http://booksite.elsevier.com/samplechapters/9780123838674/Chapter_3.pdf

a serious discussion on whether there should be nationwide reform with respect to considering tribes’ views on these types of infrastructure projects I have no problem with this, but as it stands this is not happening and that is my whole problem with this protest.

Basically to have a pipeline built one must receive a permit from all of this agencies
Bureau of Land Management
Army Corps of Engineers
Environmental Assessment
Environmental Impact Statement
Environmental Protection Agency
Federal Energy Regulatory Commission
Fish and Wildlife Service
Information, Planning and Conservation System National Environmental Policy Act
National Historic Preservation Act
National Marine Fisheries Service
National Pollutant Discharge Elimination System Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration

That list also doesn't include the state, and local agencies that must grant permits and be included. and finally it has to be approved by United States Government Accountability Office.

Right, but which one of those agencies were willing to do government-to-government meetings with the sovereign tribe with the APE defined as the entire pipeline? Which is what the Standing Rock, not unreasonably imo, demanded. Afaik.

xp

Jacob I got tons of love for you but the whole point here is that at least some of the affected parties do not recognize (and have never recognized) the authority of the US government over the disputed area (or themselves), and were not reached out to in an effective manner (hence the "serious discussion" quote above).

It's so weird to me that I feel like a spokesperson for the oil and gas companies. I'm just a record collector who has a job that I take serious and have studied and spent many years doing so these problems people are afraid of won't happen. I see many holes in this narrative about this protest from what I know of how things actually work in the field. That's all.

hey dude join the club

I think we all really appreciate you writing here, Jacob :) And the job you do.

I'm very much trying to work my way through the case, and a lot of it seems bullshit and obfuscation, both from the tribe trying to get sympathy, and from environmental protesters trying to frame it in a much broader context and unwilling to really grapple with the tribal complaints. But at it's core, I think there are bureaucratic problems, that does hit on a lack of respect for the sovereignty of the tribes.

I'm also not really sure I want to be the one who is anti oil and gas companies. We have the same fracking discussion in an area in Denmark, and it's actually an area I kinda like to visit a couple of times a year, but still... I would really like for Denmark to be less dependent on Russian gas, and while renewable ressources would be many many many times better, I can't say I don't see the value in a stopgap solution like fracking if it can be done orderly.

alternative pipeline route

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viking_expansion#/media/File%3AViking_Expansion.svg

from the Bismarck Tribune:

Audio released by the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe from a September 2014 meeting with Dakota Access Pipeline representatives contradicts recent claims made by a pipeline company executive.

Thank you for posting that link. I wish this had been released before this had begun and instead claim that no meeting had been held.

What happened after this? Why did communication break down? It's Fucking depressing.

https://chthonicstreams.bandcamp.com/album/nodapl-noise

Burn your skull for a good cause

http://kval.com/news/local/video-full-interview-with-lauren-regan-attorney-suing-north-dakota-police-agencies
regardless of your opinion on this project, fossil fuels, or pipelines in general, I hope that we can all agree that the responses by various LEOs (Law Enforcement Organizations) wrt the protests has been terrible. The fiasco with the dogs, this ridiculous firehose thing, on and on.

the word is the army corps of engineers are orders a full environmental impact assessment, which AFAICT ties this thing up ... forever?

"are orders" wtf. 'are ordering'. I think announcement within the hour

I won't be tied up forever, but if a full EIS is ordered, then it does slow things down and complicate matters for the pipeline company. They can still pull strings with the new administration and maybe get Congress to override the corps of engineers, so too soon to declare any lasting victory.

Yeah my friend working on the project said they are sending most of the labors to other projects or lay offs starting next week.

Many of them are coming to Texas to work on the Trans-Pecos and Comanche Trail pipelines going to Mexico.

ACE to Dakota Access: no easement!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/authorities-to-conditionally-move-from-bridge-near-protest/2016/12/04/64d914fe-ba25-11e6-ae79-bec72d34f8c9_story.html?hpid=hp_no-name_no-name%3Apage%2Fbreaking-news-bar&tid=a_breakingnews&utm_term=.9669fa42c71c

Good news

wow

Probably could have avoided a bunch of trouble by just, you know, looking for an alternative plan earlier.

Does this last past late January?

So what now? What the next step? What goal has been achieved here? I'm asking very honestly, opened minded?

for starters, I would hope that the ACOE & pipeline companies reevaluate how they negotiate with sovereign native tribes in cases where the borders are disputed.

secondly, I'd like to see a reevaluation of the failed (& probably illegal) tactics used by the cops etc against the protestors.

thirdly, I hoped this encourages more campaigns for native rights

"hope"

I would really like for Denmark to be less dependent on Russian gas

OT: Pay close attention to what Germany is doing with power to methane. Basically using excess renewable energy when the wind is up or sun is out to produce hydrogen, combining it with flue CO2 to form methane, and then use the nation's natural gas distribution and storage system as a massive energy storage system. Basically solving the renewable intermittency problem using mostly existing infrastructure.

Its one of the the technologies like Oxy-fuel combustion (see also CB&I's NetPower) that give me hope that we just might solve the climate crisis. Chances are we'll still be fly stratospheric sulfate sorties after tipping points are crossed, to keep India and sub-Saharan Africa from starving later this century, but one can imagine a possible glidepath with renewables + batteries (for land transport) + algal fuels (for air/sea transport) + better alternatives to rare mineral batteries + negative emissions with (biomass fuel + oxy-fuel combustion + carbon sequestration). We'll consume less and tighten our belts of neccessity, but maybe our children won't be starving in a parched land in 100 years.

btw, from a friend of mine who was at the camp:

DAPL may ignore the lack of easement, keep drilling...and pay the fines. People being asked to please stay at Standing Rock.

Yeah my friend there (who's working to get barracks delivered and set up for the winter at the camp) is happy about the news but sees it as a "pause" button more than a "stop" button.

https://www.nlg.org/wplc-responds-to-decision-to-deny-dapl-easement-calls-for-permanent-stop-to-construction-dropping-of-charges-against-550-water-protectors/

Today, the United States Army Corps of Engineers announced that it is denying an easement to Dakota Access, LLC (Dakota Access) to drill under Lake Oahe and the Missouri River for the Dakota Access Pipeline (DAPL) until an Environmental Impact Statement is completed and alternative routes are explored. “The Water Protector Legal Collective applauds the Obama Administration’s decision to deny the easement, but calls for a permanent stop to DAPL.

...

“In light of today’s decision by the Obama Administration, the Water Protector Legal Collective calls on the State of North Dakota to immediately drop criminal charges against the more than 550 Water Protectors who have been arrested related to their peaceful and prayerful protest against DAPL these past nine months. The WPLC also calls on local law enforcement agencies to pull back from the Water Protectors’ camps and dismantle the road blockades and checkpoints they have instituted, and further demands that federal and state agencies conduct a full investigation into law enforcement abuses against Water Protectors which have included violations of their First, Fourth, and Fourteenth Amendment rights,” said Angela Bibens (Santee Dakota), WPLC lawyer.