The extent of Hillary disdain isn't really surprising - the right and center-right were still mad at "Hill and Billary" from 1992 and have never let it go, the left of the Democrats still doesn't like or trust the Clintons politically (cf. what happened with Bill's VP).
― Kiarostami bag (milo z), Sunday, 27 November 2016 17:19 (seven years ago) link
hm, seems like maybe it was a bad idea for the DNC to decide like 5 years ago that she would be the nominee come hell or high water
― k3vin k., Sunday, 27 November 2016 17:28 (seven years ago) link
thanks for your insight at this important moment
― El Tomboto, Sunday, 27 November 2016 17:29 (seven years ago) link
ha sorry i'll take your lead and post paranoid articles about how we're slipping into autocracy
https://twitter.com/amjoyshow/status/802910629816172544
i do secretly enjoy following sarah kendzior's apocalyptics tbh
― k3vin k., Sunday, 27 November 2016 17:51 (seven years ago) link
i feel like she presents a valuable perspective. i don't things will go down like she says but i think it's possible. trump is being entirely unclear about his intentions.
― Treeship, Sunday, 27 November 2016 17:58 (seven years ago) link
the left of the Democrats still doesn't like or trust the Clintons politically (cf. what happened with Bill's VP).
Ironically, both Al Gore and HRC won the popular vote quite handily.
― a little too mature to be cute (Aimless), Sunday, 27 November 2016 18:03 (seven years ago) link
I hope the USA turns into a country of 500 independent city-states sometime soon
― slathered in cream and covered with stickers (silby), Sunday, 27 November 2016 18:11 (seven years ago) link
I've been off twitter since the election I'm just using ilx for my stupid quips
― slathered in cream and covered with stickers (silby), Sunday, 27 November 2016 18:12 (seven years ago) link
yo who gets the nukes in that scenario
― imago, Sunday, 27 November 2016 18:12 (seven years ago) link
every state gets 1 nuke lol
I assume an executive council of mayors gets to do the nukes
― slathered in cream and covered with stickers (silby), Sunday, 27 November 2016 18:14 (seven years ago) link
It kinda sorta feels like Trump, to the extent that his feeble synapses have any ability to generate an actual strategy, may still be perpetuating a Producers gambit. He wanted to win but never actually wanted the job. He can't quit without looking like a loser, so he figures that by doing everything in his power to visibly demonstrate how unfit he is for the job (hiring unqualified maniacs to cabinet positions, indicating a total lack of interest in security briefings, pooh-poohing qualms about his audacious conflicts of interest, etc.) before he's even sworn in, he can get somebody to chuck him out before he ever has to do anything. And then he would be able to more legitimately nurse the perpetual state of aggrievement that clearly gives his life meaning. But like The Producers, the thing he didn't want to happen is exactly what happened and will continue to happen, but in this case Bialystock is going to make us all suffer for being stupid enough to fall for his con and forcing him to live in some dumb house in DC.
― i need microsoft installed on my desktop, can you help (Old Lunch), Sunday, 27 November 2016 18:48 (seven years ago) link
Like, I wholeheartedly acknowledge how profoundly stupid and incurious Trump is, but it honestly seems like he's going out of his way to demonstrate how shitty a president he's going to be. The problem being that the people were already convinced don't need convincing and the people who backed him will double down on their support regardless of how many foreign dignitaries he waggles his shriveled penis at.
― i need microsoft installed on my desktop, can you help (Old Lunch), Sunday, 27 November 2016 18:53 (seven years ago) link
Don't you mean "waggles his small hands at"?
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 27 November 2016 18:54 (seven years ago) link
― Kiarostami bag (milo z), Sunday, 27 November 2016 18:55 (seven years ago) link
this article makes a pretty convincing (and beautifully written case) against using 'realist' political calculations vis-a-vis Trump (which informs the discussion about whether to stress 'identity' politics or not) http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2016/11/27/trump-realism-vs-moral-politics-choice-we-face/
― the ilx meme is critical of that line of thought (lion in winter), Sunday, 27 November 2016 19:00 (seven years ago) link
handily is... rather strong. .5% and less than 2% would either be the third and fourth-smallest or third and fifth (if Hillary surpasses Carter in the end) since 1900.
― Kiarostami bag (milo z)
Hm. I thought as of last week Clinton was at Tilden levels.
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 27 November 2016 19:09 (seven years ago) link
is this nuts or otm?
https://twitter.com/summerbrennan/status/802302536761810944
― stevie, Sunday, 27 November 2016 21:47 (seven years ago) link
While she's tweeting about cyberwar, the prez-elect is tweeting:
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/802972944532209664
In addition to winning the Electoral College in a landslide, I won the popular vote if you deduct the millions of people who voted illegally
― curmudgeon, Sunday, 27 November 2016 22:10 (seven years ago) link
Just about to post re: that. If the president elect, the guy who won, is alleging millions of fraudulent votes ...
― Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 27 November 2016 22:13 (seven years ago) link
care to share with the rest of the class mr trump
― illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Sunday, 27 November 2016 22:25 (seven years ago) link
So he cried fraud before the election, he cried fraud after the election, but he's dismissing recounts as a waste of time?
― Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 27 November 2016 22:28 (seven years ago) link
Politico says in part:
To bolster his claims, Trump has cited a 2014 blog post in The Washington Post by the authors of a disputed study that estimated that "6.4 percent of non-citizens voted in 2008 and 2.2 percent of non-citizens voted in 2010." That study has faced intense scrutiny from election experts, with one analyst telling factcheck.org earlier this year, “Their finding is entirely due to measurement error."
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/trump-illegal-voting-clinton-231860
― curmudgeon, Sunday, 27 November 2016 22:31 (seven years ago) link
He's the president, he should appoint people to look into this.
― Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 27 November 2016 22:33 (seven years ago) link
we haven't even started yet
― the notes the loon doesn't play (ulysses), Sunday, 27 November 2016 22:33 (seven years ago) link
He should also look into how many of his voters host illegal off-highway tiger zoos.
i have been to to the tiger truck stop in louisiana and can confirm that there is one sad tiger in a concerte box there. also the jambalaya sucked
― the ilx meme is critical of that line of thought (lion in winter), Sunday, 27 November 2016 22:39 (seven years ago) link
http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/962/640/658.png
― Surrounded by 62,212,752 fools + 7,143,756 morons (Sanpaku), Sunday, 27 November 2016 22:43 (seven years ago) link
i don't think congress has the constitutional authority to pass a nationwide voter ID law, thank god
― 龜, Sunday, 27 November 2016 22:50 (seven years ago) link
OTOH, proposals for national ID cards have been kicking around for awhile - especially in the 9/11 fallout. I certainly expect to see them again.
― Elvis Telecom, Sunday, 27 November 2016 23:13 (seven years ago) link
If there was a national ID (realizing the issues with hassle, threat of authoritarian rule, etc) that was enacted and in force years before an election, could it prevent some of the voter supression that has been a regular issue for a couple of decades?
In other words, we've had the issue of Republican secretaries of state disenfranchising hundreds of thousands in the weeks immediately preceding every election. An ID mandate, if issued a year or two before the next election, would be an equal hassle to all, but would prevent thousands from being turned away as they reached the ballot box.
Frankly, I don't have strongly informed opinions on the issue. I just want a way to prevent the sorts of voter list manipulation that has become the norm, especially in swing states, to stop. I understand voter/citizen ID is intended to disenfranchise, but perhaps if effectively countered at the local level it could backfire. We have the GOTV volunteers, they don't.
― Sanpaku, Sunday, 27 November 2016 23:25 (seven years ago) link
Imagine the uproar if senior citizens who got their news from racist nephews on Facebook were turned away, while people of all ethnicities who duly wasted an hour or two to get their national ID walked past to cast their vote. This is the sort of poetic justice I seek.
― Sanpaku, Sunday, 27 November 2016 23:33 (seven years ago) link
There would be no more than one office in every MSA unless you pay a fee to skip the line or something equally disenfranchising, but rural gas stations would be able to process the paperwork.
― Kiarostami bag (milo z), Sunday, 27 November 2016 23:36 (seven years ago) link
Again, we have the GOTV volunteers. They're shitheads relying upon Facebook for their worldview.
― Sanpaku, Sunday, 27 November 2016 23:54 (seven years ago) link
how would theoretical national id laws play out in vote by mail only states (which imo the entire country should be vote by mail bc it works and is easy)
― Clay, Monday, 28 November 2016 00:24 (seven years ago) link
Sanpaku wouldn't you just be offsetting the disenfranchisement from the weeks before the election to whenever it is that people are supposed to get these IDs?
― illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Monday, 28 November 2016 00:37 (seven years ago) link
No one can respond to the late period disenfranchisement. I just think there's ample opportunity for these measures to backfire, especially if they're in law for many months before a vote.
I trust that we are smarter and more committed. If some neo-nazi thinks posting Pepe memes is more important than getting their fucking diabetic uncle out to vote, too bad.
― Sanpaku, Monday, 28 November 2016 00:43 (seven years ago) link
Sorry about that, but I've got a lot of contempt issues around the electorate, right now.
― Sanpaku, Monday, 28 November 2016 00:45 (seven years ago) link
I guess I'm not following your argument completely, Sanpaku, since state-level voter ID is a device of disenfranchisement, and the arguments you're putting forward for how people would have plenty of time to get it taken care of in advance, are the same as those put forward by defenders of state voter ID measures. It leads rapidly to "If you can't be bothered to fill out a form you have no business voting!" in defiance of how things actually play out in reality, vis-a-vis disproportionate effects on certain populations. And yeah, unless a whole new federal voter-registration bureaucracy sprung into existence, with outposts and offices and sign-up vans in ever town, the actual implementation would fall to state-level agencies so it'd be the same old shit, as milo z suggests.
― walk back to the halftime long, billy lynn, billy lynn (Doctor Casino), Monday, 28 November 2016 00:52 (seven years ago) link
― Clay, Sunday, November 27, 2016 4:24 PM (twenty-five minutes ago)
There are states that require you to vote by mail? That seems like it has more opportunity for fraud, as well as disenfranchising people that move.
― sarahell, Monday, 28 November 2016 00:53 (seven years ago) link
overview here, I am in the "pro" camp:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vote-by-mail_in_Oregon
― sleeve, Monday, 28 November 2016 01:02 (seven years ago) link
actually looks like congress can under the elections clause
so trump is gonna use this recount effort to lie about voter fraud, setting the stage for a nationwide voter ID law
― 龜, Monday, 28 November 2016 01:11 (seven years ago) link
Frankly, I'd be pretty happy to have a multiple choice test on the effects of climate change sponsored by the NSF be part of voter registration.
Our problem now is we're playing by the rules, and Republican secretaries of state are disenfranchising voters in the weeks just prior to elections. The problem isn't rules, its changing them before anyone has a chance to react.
They enact voter ID in early 2017, and we can react. In fact, we can win this contest of disenfranchisement, because we are smarter and have more grassroots support. I'll drive people from my neighborhood, but maybe not the Trump worshippers from the nursing home. If they enact voter ID in late 2018, then we're fucked.
― Sanpaku, Monday, 28 November 2016 01:14 (seven years ago) link
^selectively disenfranching
― Sanpaku, Monday, 28 November 2016 01:16 (seven years ago) link
yeah no
Fundamental rights don't get tested
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 28 November 2016 01:39 (seven years ago) link
everything about that post is ridiculous
― k3vin k., Monday, 28 November 2016 01:41 (seven years ago) link
i saw a person with a bumper sticker today reading "TYSON/NYE 2016". basically made me want to become a trump supporter. i suspect it was on sanpaku's car???
― global tetrahedron, Monday, 28 November 2016 01:46 (seven years ago) link
xp:
Obv my post was in jest.
That said, while voting tests served to disenfranchise, they also mostly kept demagogues out. How many of us would pray for a Romney right now...
― Sanpaku, Monday, 28 November 2016 02:31 (seven years ago) link
?
― slathered in cream and covered with stickers (silby), Monday, 28 November 2016 02:32 (seven years ago) link
you know Andrew Jackson right