Pretty much all social justice goes out the window when the poor are outbid for food. It's happening between nations, but I hope it doesn't become a huge issue withing the U.S. in my lifetime. It's probably inevitable.
― Distribution of all possible outcomes (Sanpaku), Monday, 21 November 2016 03:31 (seven years ago) link
also: thinking if the line of attack for dems this election shouldn't have been 'trump is racist/sexist/misogynistic/xenophobic/islamophobic' - all qualities that immediately offend us educated city slickers but code very different depending on which side of the culture wars you find yourself on
instead, should have focused on trump as a con man - trump U allegations, but also as someone who doesn't pay his workers, takes advantage of tax loopholes, etc. - seems like this is a much more 'universal' message - if there's one thing all americans hate, it's getting conned / fits into a 'fight fire with fire' strategy vis a vis hillary's 'corruption' charges re: emails and clinton foundation
― 龜, Monday, 21 November 2016 03:35 (seven years ago) link
otm
― flopson, Monday, 21 November 2016 03:40 (seven years ago) link
otm x2
― flappy bird, Monday, 21 November 2016 03:40 (seven years ago) link
caveat that her strategy did work for the majority of voters (brutal to win pop vote by 1.5 million, which was the tally last I saw) but to eke out rust-belt swing states def agree
― flopson, Monday, 21 November 2016 03:54 (seven years ago) link
the more I think about it the less I think any given way of attacking trump would have done much. I mean his whole thing was 'of course I cheat, now I'm cheating 4 u'
what I do think could have helped was attacking him in ways that built clinton's own character / made her come across as more of a human being. e.g. had she taken control of her own twitter account and gone off script more in the debates. they were playing it safe and that seemed like a pretty sensible strategy at the time, let donald trump be the one who goes off script and non-donald trumps who go off script and say something like 'deplorables' get disproportionately punished for it.
― iatee, Monday, 21 November 2016 04:16 (seven years ago) link
trump got hit with plenty of that stuff in both the primaries and in the general and it just didn't stick
― k3vin k., Monday, 21 November 2016 04:20 (seven years ago) link
I read someone on her campaign compare it to an athletic competition where the other guy gets to be on steroids, which seemed like a pretty apt comparison.
― iatee, Monday, 21 November 2016 04:20 (seven years ago) link
― flopson, Sunday, November 20, 2016 10:54 PM (twenty-six minutes ago
the strategy "didn't work" because the election isn't decided by the popular vote. the reason the lost the electoral college is precisely because her strategy failed to appeal to the voters she most needed to reach
― k3vin k., Monday, 21 November 2016 04:25 (seven years ago) link
there was no precedent, really, in facing a candidate like this. it still makes absolutely no sense to me why people were willing to vote for a known liar who doesn't honor his contracts and has shady ties to russia -- among his other, many faults. in the future i think democrats should strive to seem less strategic, if possible: just try to be clear about their agenda in a way that connects with the concerns of average people. polls show that most people lean progressive on the issues, anyway, even if they don't think they do
― Treeship, Monday, 21 November 2016 04:25 (seven years ago) link
like, trump was literally going to these states and talking to people, often doing two stops per day. clinton didn't do anything like that.
― Treeship, Monday, 21 November 2016 04:26 (seven years ago) link
or find a reality tv star
xp
― iatee, Monday, 21 November 2016 04:26 (seven years ago) link
Going into the election I rated the chances of the respective candidates doing anything whatsoever about global warming at about 0% for Trump vs 0.5% for Clinton
― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Monday, 21 November 2016 04:27 (seven years ago) link
Clinton also couldn't draw when she did rallies. She should have gone to those states more anyway, but I'm just saying she was never going to be Trump.
Another big mistake I thought was the shying away from attacking the entire GOP and refusing to conflate Trump with their agenda (indeed, even trying and failing to peel off "moderate republicans" as a focus). How hard is it to campaign on "these people are going to take your fucking medicaid/medicare away"?
― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Monday, 21 November 2016 04:30 (seven years ago) link
But anyway I was already so pessimistic about what the future looked like under a CLINTON presidency -- no action on global warming, a continued slow march toward privatizing everything, a terrible political landscape for the Democrats going forward, likelihood of one term, etc. And now this is so much worse. Every day is like a fever of nightmare scenarios racing through my head before the fever finally breaks at some point in the evening.
― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Monday, 21 November 2016 04:32 (seven years ago) link
Today my mind was playing out these, for example:
GOP holds up federal funding for sanctuary cities. NYC and other cities litigate. In most cases they probably win, but it takes time, GOP appeals, continues to hold up federal funding pending appeal even if court orders otherwise. Existing SCOTUS precedent favors the cities, but the GOP doesn't care, cities struggle to meet funding gaps for key programs with federal funding, many of which affect the poorest. Meanwhile GOP gets impatient, mass-hires fed immigration police, starts raiding the cities, whole neighborhoods of the boroughs lose 10%, 20%, 30% of their population.
― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Monday, 21 November 2016 04:36 (seven years ago) link
I went further with it too: fed funding loss forces either large budget cuts or tax increases, city services suffer, homelessness on streets increases, track pickup reduced, things start to look more like the 80s, etc. The only reason I think this might not really happen to NYC is that Trump and his family are so invested here.
― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Monday, 21 November 2016 04:37 (seven years ago) link
Every day is like a fever of nightmare scenarios racing through my head before the fever finally breaks at some point in the evening.
― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Sunday, November 20, 2016 11:32 PM (eight minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
ha otm
― flopson, Monday, 21 November 2016 04:42 (seven years ago) link
I feel like the Pences of the world would love to fuck NYC and either don't grasp or don't care about the larger consequences.
― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Monday, 21 November 2016 04:47 (seven years ago) link
i also don't think trump wants to disturb the status quo, despite screaming the exact opposite every day for the past 18 months. he likes his life. becoming president is a severe step down for him - white house, air force one, no more android phone, no more women on the side. i just don't see mass deportations happening under him. too much of a hassle.
(trying to be optimistic here)
― flappy bird, Monday, 21 November 2016 04:50 (seven years ago) link
Ok if I had to place a bet on most likely scenario, I'd say he does some kind of showy but statistically underwhelming "mass" deportation and acts like it's the biggest deportation of criminal illegals ever.
― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Monday, 21 November 2016 04:53 (seven years ago) link
the fact that a man who led such a life of privilege, a man who found great success in the world's most diverse city, is now going to "go after" helpless immigrants for no reason except they were a convenient scapegoat in his campaign is so nauseating it's hard to contemplate
― Treeship, Monday, 21 November 2016 04:54 (seven years ago) link
trump has very few real beliefs of any sort but he obviously loves nyc more than most people who live here
I'm mostly just concerned about 4 years of 5th avenue being a circus / constant midtown street closures etc.
I mean I honestly haven't noticed anything yet, though I don't spend much time north of 42nd st
― iatee, Monday, 21 November 2016 04:55 (seven years ago) link
i went to trump tower out of curiosity a few days ago. only 1 block was closed off but there was police everywhere. the protesters were marching somewhere else.
― Treeship, Monday, 21 November 2016 04:57 (seven years ago) link
*there were police everywhere
― Treeship, Monday, 21 November 2016 04:58 (seven years ago) link
the sad little downstairs food court at trump tower used to be my go to bathroom in the area. can't imagine I'll ever step foot in that building again.
― iatee, Monday, 21 November 2016 04:59 (seven years ago) link
you could just poop in the lobby
― slathered in cream and covered with stickers (silby), Monday, 21 November 2016 05:00 (seven years ago) link
good optics
― Treeship, Monday, 21 November 2016 05:04 (seven years ago) link
can't believe the president lives in a tower named after himself btw. it's like a wookiepedia entry.
― difficult listening hour, Monday, 21 November 2016 05:06 (seven years ago) link
yeah, all of this is really stupid
― Treeship, Monday, 21 November 2016 05:08 (seven years ago) link
*in unison* I DIDN'T RE-A-LIZE ID-I-OC-RA-CY WAS A DOC-U-MEN-TAR-Y!
― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Monday, 21 November 2016 05:12 (seven years ago) link
just grim, feudal
― difficult listening hour, Monday, 21 November 2016 05:14 (seven years ago) link
Rev. Barber taking the long view:
http://inthesetimes.com/article/19656/donald-trump-election-reconstruction-william-barber
― never have i been a blue calm sea (collardio gelatinous), Monday, 21 November 2016 05:15 (seven years ago) link
this thread is worth it just for the links
― El Tomboto, Monday, 21 November 2016 05:23 (seven years ago) link
otm xp (+ not xp)
― difficult listening hour, Monday, 21 November 2016 05:24 (seven years ago) link
America must not waste time asking ourselves how this could have happened. It happened because it is a habit written deep in our public memory. If we are willing to see ourselves as we are and have been, we will also see our potential for prophetic resistance, even in times like these.
― slathered in cream and covered with stickers (silby), Monday, 21 November 2016 05:27 (seven years ago) link
https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2016/11/teaching-1984-in-2016/508226/
― El Tomboto, Monday, 21 November 2016 05:45 (seven years ago) link
who are you and what have you done with iatee
― k3vin k., Monday, 21 November 2016 06:41 (seven years ago) link
― illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Monday, 21 November 2016 08:39 (seven years ago) link
iatee = Tiffanys regular
im fine w/ staying out of midtown except for MoMA (which is 4 blocks from TT but is better approached from the west anyway)
― Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Monday, 21 November 2016 12:48 (seven years ago) link
/I'm mostly just concerned about 4 years of 5th avenue being a circus / constant midtown street closures etc./who are you and what have you done with iatee
it's not just car traffic! they block off large chunks of the city from pedestrians when the president's around
― iatee, Monday, 21 November 2016 13:38 (seven years ago) link
what really sucks about this is that Hillary was pretty much an open book on this, all the information about her and the foundation was out there, along with thousands and thousands of hacked emails - meanwhile Trump volunteered effectively nothing about himself, we know essentially nothing about him or his business dealings, in fact the only thing we really know is through Fahrenthold who found that Trump has given essentially nothing to charity (despite his frequent claims otherwise) and that his foundation engaged in some blatantly illegal behavior. and yet Clinton gets the image of being "corrupt". so like....why bother volunteering information about yourself anymore? apparently people don't care.
― frogbs, Monday, 21 November 2016 14:11 (seven years ago) link
Yeah. There was too much confusion and misinformation this election so people weren't able to see the candidates clearly. From an objective standpoint Trump is much less transparent and much more dishonest but the deluge of bad info, I guess, obscured this for people
― Treeship, Monday, 21 November 2016 14:15 (seven years ago) link
Good mourning!
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 21 November 2016 14:16 (seven years ago) link
My parents tell me their friends said things like, "both are corrupt," as if that settled it
― Treeship, Monday, 21 November 2016 14:16 (seven years ago) link
giant meteor 2016 amirite
― illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Monday, 21 November 2016 14:16 (seven years ago) link
Holy shit, has Trump said which church he has joined yet? Because he better do that really fucking soon before people start to think he's a Muslim.
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 21 November 2016 14:21 (seven years ago) link
Nasty thing is if behaviour during this campaign now allows future candidates to be as unforthcoming about important details. I really don't like the idea of precedents being set for the ability to do wrong and get away with it.
How's he going to drain the swamp if he's the main seepage?
― Stevolende, Monday, 21 November 2016 14:23 (seven years ago) link
I was really irritated with anyone who said "lesser of two evils". your evil detector is seriously broken if one of these candidates didn't register off the charts for you.
― frogbs, Monday, 21 November 2016 14:27 (seven years ago) link
TOMBOT!
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/wp/2016/11/21/trump-republicans-plan-to-target-government-workers-benefits-and-job-security/?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_fedworkers-9a%3Ahomepage%2Fstory
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 21 November 2016 14:28 (seven years ago) link