also stop using "our" and "we" ya damned dane, you can't vote here
― and this section is called boner (Phil D.), Sunday, 20 November 2016 23:00 (seven years ago) link
this is a dumb conversation
― Treeship, Sunday, 20 November 2016 23:01 (seven years ago) link
^^ new board description
― who is extremely unqualified to review this pop album (BradNelson), Sunday, 20 November 2016 23:02 (seven years ago) link
treeship otm
― k3vin k., Sunday, 20 November 2016 23:02 (seven years ago) link
anyway my wife and I just booked spots on one of the Cleveland buses for the Million Women March on Jan. 21 so if anyone else is going we will see you there
― and this section is called boner (Phil D.), Sunday, 20 November 2016 23:04 (seven years ago) link
are you defending neoliberalism or ...?
― sarahell, Sunday, November 20, 2016 5:53 PM (three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
u asking me? I was just saying I don't think we should interpret Trump win as a fundamental break with the past, where the only choice is now to chart a course to Socialism or stay in fascism. the easiest choice is still to elect a centre-left liberal Democrat in four years (maybe someone more Bernie than Hillary, whatever). we don't need to have a socialist revolution just cuz we elected a moron who is courted by the alt-right
― flopson, Sunday, 20 November 2016 23:04 (seven years ago) link
I have tentative plans to go to DC for whatever protests end up happening
I think they will be big, yuuge even
― iatee, Sunday, 20 November 2016 23:05 (seven years ago) link
i'm probably going to be there too
― Treeship, Sunday, 20 November 2016 23:05 (seven years ago) link
yes flopson, i was asking you, and thanks for clarifying and not responding in the form of a ridic challop
― sarahell, Sunday, 20 November 2016 23:05 (seven years ago) link
flopson asks a good question, which is what do we mean by "socialism"? what would a revolutionary program look like in an era where the bargaining power of labor has been totally liquidated?
― Treeship, Sunday, 20 November 2016 23:07 (seven years ago) link
and on another subject:https://www.fastcompany.com/3065777/inside-gab-the-new-twitter-alternative-championed-by-the-alt-right
― sarahell, Sunday, 20 November 2016 23:14 (seven years ago) link
It's entirely possible that many political philosophies can defeat fascism, and probably a combination of them will be required - OF COURSE - but what I took from dlh's post, or what i wanted to take, was that only stiff opposition will work. we can't JD Vance it.
xpost maybe the first thing to recognize is that the bargaining power of labour has NOT been totally liquidated. the US has legal structures that ensure freedoms to organize and to strike that 100 years ago were pipe dreams
― illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Sunday, 20 November 2016 23:15 (seven years ago) link
too bad all those union dudes love trump
― iatee, Sunday, 20 November 2016 23:19 (seven years ago) link
labor in the USA is going to be reduced to smithereens by the time four years is up
― flopson, Sunday, 20 November 2016 23:19 (seven years ago) link
they won't love trump when he ends up not delivering.
― illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Sunday, 20 November 2016 23:20 (seven years ago) link
I do think we should be as obstructionist to Trump as Republicans were to Obama (if not more), but we all know that's not going to happen.
― flopson, Sunday, 20 November 2016 23:21 (seven years ago) link
Good article
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/to-resist-a-trump-presidency-ask-what-would-the-abolitionists-do/2016/11/18/2615a136-a767-11e6-8fc0-7be8f848c492_story.html?hpid=hp_no-name_opinion-card-e%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.62f01cbbb0af
― Οὖτις, Sunday, 20 November 2016 23:24 (seven years ago) link
https://d17oy1vhnax1f7.cloudfront.net/items/0R3j0b2Z1J2S101T3h0Y/Superman%20is%20not%20a%20dick.jpg
― illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Sunday, 20 November 2016 23:29 (seven years ago) link
flopson, i'm confused, I thought you were Canadian.
― sarahell, Sunday, 20 November 2016 23:29 (seven years ago) link
lol ya I am Canadian, sry I keep using "we" to mean 'the US left'
― flopson, Sunday, 20 November 2016 23:33 (seven years ago) link
ie canada
― the kids are alt right (darraghmac), Sunday, 20 November 2016 23:34 (seven years ago) link
it's just "weird" idk that today's discussion has been 1/2 foreigners and ex-pats.
― sarahell, Sunday, 20 November 2016 23:37 (seven years ago) link
Anglophones in Quebec have a particularly strong identification with Americans, imo (we don't feel Québecois, but also buy enough into the idea that Québec isn't part of Canada to not feel Canadian). my francophone girlfriend has no idea why I'm so torn up about the election of Donald Trump lol
― flopson, Sunday, 20 November 2016 23:38 (seven years ago) link
also US Politics is just a topic of universal interest and no one needs a justification to care about it (imo)
― flopson, Sunday, 20 November 2016 23:39 (seven years ago) link
Hamilton is global!
― Frederik B, Sunday, 20 November 2016 23:39 (seven years ago) link
us politics is not just a topic of universal interest, it's also a topic of universal relevance
the rest of the world should get some token rest of the world state to vote in
― iatee, Sunday, 20 November 2016 23:40 (seven years ago) link
And also, the discussion between an 'identitarian' approach and a strictly economist approach to the ascendant populist right is important all over the world. In Denmark the Danish Peoples Party became the main support for the right-wing government back in 2001. We've had the same discussion you're having now for fifteen years at this point.
― Frederik B, Sunday, 20 November 2016 23:42 (seven years ago) link
us politics is not a topic of universal interest btw
― The Doug Walters of Crime (Tom D.), Sunday, 20 November 2016 23:43 (seven years ago) link
great article about identity politics Treeship.
posted in THE ECHO CHAMBER.
― Van Horn Street, Sunday, 20 November 2016 23:43 (seven years ago) link
same for danish politics imo
Most of the time it's of no interest whatsoever to anyone outside the USA other than Fred.
― The Doug Walters of Crime (Tom D.), Sunday, 20 November 2016 23:44 (seven years ago) link
i understand it is not the same as 'nebb posting restaurant recommendations and other valuable knowledge in the San Francisco threads, but it ticks (hehehe) some of the same boxes.
― sarahell, Sunday, 20 November 2016 23:46 (seven years ago) link
You know who's weird? ShariVari! Why is that dude so interested in Russian politics? What's wrong with him?!?
(sorry mate. you can't always protect everyone)
― Frederik B, Sunday, 20 November 2016 23:47 (seven years ago) link
For a start, no-one knows who anyone is, other than Obama, Hilary and Trump. Bernie registered for about a milisecond. Probably because of that bird landing when he was giving that speech.
― The Doug Walters of Crime (Tom D.), Sunday, 20 November 2016 23:48 (seven years ago) link
but yeah to come back to identity politics, I think it's also fair to admit that it was shaped as a response to the racist, homophobic and sexist policies found throughout US history (same for other western nations, I think this discussion concerns most of the Occident right now). so while I think it's important for a head of government to be as inclusive as possible, media reporting on trans people fighting for bathrooms is obviously healthy for democracy.
― Van Horn Street, Sunday, 20 November 2016 23:48 (seven years ago) link
we literally covered this exact same fucking ground only a few hundred posts ago. why this entertains you all so much to argue about who should be posting here and why is fucking beyond me.
What seems to be getting lost in the atomization of left/progressive strategies and causes is that the planet is about to get completely fucked. Whether that's because everybody has given up on climate change, assumes Elon Musk is going to solve it for us with self-aware electric everything, or because it's something we can all actually AGREE ON isn't clear. But back to Trump & the GOP's stated first 100 days plans for the environment:
* Lift the restrictions on the production of $50 trillion dollars worth of American energy, including shale, oil, natural gas, and clean coal.* End bans on offshore drilling in order to end our dependence on Middle East oil and make America energy independent.* Sign into law the Senate’s existing bill to build the Keystone Pipeline.* Cancel billions of dollars in payments to U.N. climate change programs, and use that money to fix our own country.
Shall we try to do anything about this?
― El Tomboto, Sunday, 20 November 2016 23:48 (seven years ago) link
also Shakey's wapo link above is indeed good
Good articlehttps://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/to-resist-a-trump-presidency-ask-what-would-the-abolitionists-do/2016/11/18/2615a136-a767-11e6-8fc0-7be8f848c492_story.html?hpid=hp_no-name_opinion-card-e%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.62f01cbbb0af
― El Tomboto, Sunday, 20 November 2016 23:52 (seven years ago) link
not arguing who should and shouldn't be posting here, just that people who don't live here and/or have never lived here -- that relationship of poster to topic is sometimes taken into account.
― sarahell, Monday, 21 November 2016 00:00 (seven years ago) link
it's not unusual for canadians to be better informed on american politics than americans
― iatee, Monday, 21 November 2016 00:00 (seven years ago) link
I know a fellow in NZ who follows US politics better than most Americans I work with. ANYWAY!!!!
― El Tomboto, Monday, 21 November 2016 00:02 (seven years ago) link
it's like the opinions of people who have never lived anywhere remotely like middle america feeling oh so knowledgeable about "those people," or mansplaining or ... you get the pattern.
― sarahell, Monday, 21 November 2016 00:02 (seven years ago) link
― iatee, Sunday, November 20, 2016
what about American optics
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 21 November 2016 00:03 (seven years ago) link
just that there is a difference between facts and data and reading the best thinkpieces vs. lived experience
― sarahell, Monday, 21 November 2016 00:03 (seven years ago) link
Danesplaining?
― The Doug Walters of Crime (Tom D.), Monday, 21 November 2016 00:03 (seven years ago) link
― iatee, 21. november 2016 01:00 (three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Nor for Danes!
I lived a year in the US with a roommate from Pittsburgh, for what it's worth.
― Frederik B, Monday, 21 November 2016 00:05 (seven years ago) link
there are lots of canadians who have lived in places more like middle america than I have!
― iatee, Monday, 21 November 2016 00:05 (seven years ago) link
I am a british on this thread, because it's partly our fault
― Never changed username before (cardamon), Monday, 21 November 2016 00:06 (seven years ago) link
I haven't noticed Fred trying to talk down lived experience with think-pieces?
as one of the "worst offenders" in that department, that says very little
― sarahell, Monday, 21 November 2016 00:07 (seven years ago) link
we should literally start a separate thread just to talk about how much that is worth
― El Tomboto, Monday, 21 November 2016 00:07 (seven years ago) link