Mourning in America - Trump Year One: November '16 to

We need militant antiracism! But just not in the theater, because that is impolite, and really, think of the optics.

Socialism is not gonna beat fascism IMO (the only people I see saying so are, uh, socialists) and our best bet is to step back from the ledge and revert course to the previous status quo

Only white guy farmers and plumbers should speak for the left from now on. Great optics on those dudes - the best

are you defending neoliberalism or ...?

Socialism beat fascism before and it can do it again

And before you say it'll never happen in this country, look at who's president

Also, our antiracism must never be seen as 'smug' or 'arrogant' and it must never be seen as inconvenient to white people, because they might find that abrasive. And while militant, it should of course always be tolerant of racism, because otherwise it's hypocritical. And also, it should never be overplayed because economics is the way to go.

fred i'm not sure whom yr arguing with but if it's me it needs some work

i think he's arguing with flappy bird

fred u cant even get the ppl who agree with u to agree with u maybe youre not the guy to come up the strategies for the nonvoters

I don't know what anyone's arguing anymore. But could we stop seriously using the term "optics" because it is redolent of smug tv commentators that should be reassigned to valuable occupations like managing wastewater treatment plants.

also stop using "our" and "we" ya damned dane, you can't vote here

this is a dumb conversation

^^ new board description

treeship otm

anyway my wife and I just booked spots on one of the Cleveland buses for the Million Women March on Jan. 21 so if anyone else is going we will see you there

are you defending neoliberalism or ...?

― sarahell, Sunday, November 20, 2016 5:53 PM (three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

u asking me? I was just saying I don't think we should interpret Trump win as a fundamental break with the past, where the only choice is now to chart a course to Socialism or stay in fascism. the easiest choice is still to elect a centre-left liberal Democrat in four years (maybe someone more Bernie than Hillary, whatever). we don't need to have a socialist revolution just cuz we elected a moron who is courted by the alt-right

I have tentative plans to go to DC for whatever protests end up happening

I think they will be big, yuuge even

i'm probably going to be there too

yes flopson, i was asking you, and thanks for clarifying and not responding in the form of a ridic challop

flopson asks a good question, which is what do we mean by "socialism"? what would a revolutionary program look like in an era where the bargaining power of labor has been totally liquidated?

and on another subject:
https://www.fastcompany.com/3065777/inside-gab-the-new-twitter-alternative-championed-by-the-alt-right

It's entirely possible that many political philosophies can defeat fascism, and probably a combination of them will be required - OF COURSE - but what I took from dlh's post, or what i wanted to take, was that only stiff opposition will work. we can't JD Vance it.

xpost maybe the first thing to recognize is that the bargaining power of labour has NOT been totally liquidated. the US has legal structures that ensure freedoms to organize and to strike that 100 years ago were pipe dreams

too bad all those union dudes love trump

labor in the USA is going to be reduced to smithereens by the time four years is up

they won't love trump when he ends up not delivering.

I do think we should be as obstructionist to Trump as Republicans were to Obama (if not more), but we all know that's not going to happen.

Good article

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/to-resist-a-trump-presidency-ask-what-would-the-abolitionists-do/2016/11/18/2615a136-a767-11e6-8fc0-7be8f848c492_story.html?hpid=hp_no-name_opinion-card-e%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.62f01cbbb0af

https://d17oy1vhnax1f7.cloudfront.net/items/0R3j0b2Z1J2S101T3h0Y/Superman%20is%20not%20a%20dick.jpg

flopson, i'm confused, I thought you were Canadian.

lol ya I am Canadian, sry I keep using "we" to mean 'the US left'

ie canada

it's just "weird" idk that today's discussion has been 1/2 foreigners and ex-pats.

Anglophones in Quebec have a particularly strong identification with Americans, imo (we don't feel Québecois, but also buy enough into the idea that Québec isn't part of Canada to not feel Canadian). my francophone girlfriend has no idea why I'm so torn up about the election of Donald Trump lol

also US Politics is just a topic of universal interest and no one needs a justification to care about it (imo)

Hamilton is global!

us politics is not just a topic of universal interest, it's also a topic of universal relevance

the rest of the world should get some token rest of the world state to vote in

And also, the discussion between an 'identitarian' approach and a strictly economist approach to the ascendant populist right is important all over the world. In Denmark the Danish Peoples Party became the main support for the right-wing government back in 2001. We've had the same discussion you're having now for fifteen years at this point.

us politics is not a topic of universal interest btw

great article about identity politics Treeship.

posted in THE ECHO CHAMBER.

us politics is not a topic of universal interest btw

same for danish politics imo

Most of the time it's of no interest whatsoever to anyone outside the USA other than Fred.

i understand it is not the same as 'nebb posting restaurant recommendations and other valuable knowledge in the San Francisco threads, but it ticks (hehehe) some of the same boxes.

You know who's weird? ShariVari! Why is that dude so interested in Russian politics? What's wrong with him?!?

(sorry mate. you can't always protect everyone)

For a start, no-one knows who anyone is, other than Obama, Hilary and Trump. Bernie registered for about a milisecond. Probably because of that bird landing when he was giving that speech.

but yeah to come back to identity politics, I think it's also fair to admit that it was shaped as a response to the racist, homophobic and sexist policies found throughout US history (same for other western nations, I think this discussion concerns most of the Occident right now). so while I think it's important for a head of government to be as inclusive as possible, media reporting on trans people fighting for bathrooms is obviously healthy for democracy.

we literally covered this exact same fucking ground only a few hundred posts ago. why this entertains you all so much to argue about who should be posting here and why is fucking beyond me.

What seems to be getting lost in the atomization of left/progressive strategies and causes is that the planet is about to get completely fucked. Whether that's because everybody has given up on climate change, assumes Elon Musk is going to solve it for us with self-aware electric everything, or because it's something we can all actually AGREE ON isn't clear. But back to Trump & the GOP's stated first 100 days plans for the environment:

* Lift the restrictions on the production of $50 trillion dollars worth of American energy, including shale, oil, natural gas, and clean coal.
* End bans on offshore drilling in order to end our dependence on Middle East oil and make America energy independent.
* Sign into law the Senate’s existing bill to build the Keystone Pipeline.
* Cancel billions of dollars in payments to U.N. climate change programs, and use that money to fix our own country.

Shall we try to do anything about this?

also Shakey's wapo link above is indeed good

Good article

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/to-resist-a-trump-presidency-ask-what-would-the-abolitionists-do/2016/11/18/2615a136-a767-11e6-8fc0-7be8f848c492_story.html?hpid=hp_no-name_opinion-card-e%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.62f01cbbb0af

not arguing who should and shouldn't be posting here, just that people who don't live here and/or have never lived here -- that relationship of poster to topic is sometimes taken into account.

it's not unusual for canadians to be better informed on american politics than americans

I know a fellow in NZ who follows US politics better than most Americans I work with. ANYWAY!!!!