Mourning in America - Trump Year One: November '16 to

i mean, "america is already great" wasn't so inspiring to people. the democrats at least need to make a claim to improve the conditions of the people who want to vote for them. this wasn't as much of an issue when their opponents were conservatives who just wanted to shrink the government and could maybe promise a tax cut, but up against fascists promising the moon u get the picture

obviously no left deserving of the name is anything less than militantly antiracist

I don't think this is obvious, given that ppl seem to want to recreate The Jungle

flopson: eventually, yes, a coalition of mostly capitalist countries defeated the fascists in the most destructive war in history, nationalizing industry in the process and w a lil help from 25 million dead communists. was hoping we could nip it in something closer to the bud this time tho

djp if it's not obvious by all means let's work to make it obviouser

only socialism kills fascism; anyone who says otherwise is selling something

― difficult listening hour, Sunday, November 20, 2016 2:38 PM (five minutes ago)

i think bombs and guns and war crimes tribunals have done so in the past.

but the conflation of working-class politics w white supremacy (and the working class w the "white working class") and committed trump voters with the millions upon millions of stayhomes is an error xxps

dmac, what are the immigration laws of ireland like

no blacks, dogs or irish

lol ok so you guys are strapping in for ww3 then? xxp

who's on our side again?

Trump, in all his ignorant bullshit, did v v well to make the single dominating headlines this weekend abt Hamilton instead of his multi-million settlement.

Good luck USA, good luck with your new president. For you are truly, truly screwed. And the rest of "the west" will be dragged along in this magnificent downfall. Thanks, thanks again. You fucking imbeciles.

but the conflation of working-class politics w white supremacy (and the working class w the "white working class") and committed trump voters with the millions upon millions of stayhomes is an error xxps

― difficult listening hour, Sunday, November 20, 2016 2:47 PM (twenty-six seconds ago)

this is otm

lol ok so you guys are strapping in for ww3 then? xxp

― difficult listening hour, Sunday, November 20, 2016 2:48 PM (thirty-seven seconds ago)

uh, we were pointing out basic historical facts that disprove your "challenging opinion" -- I agree with the rest of your post, but the only socialism bit was absurd.

dmac, what are the immigration laws of ireland like

― 龜, Sunday, 20 November 2016 22:43 (four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

"nothin we havent done ourselves please lads"

We need militant antiracism! But just not in the theater, because that is impolite, and really, think of the optics.

Socialism is not gonna beat fascism IMO (the only people I see saying so are, uh, socialists) and our best bet is to step back from the ledge and revert course to the previous status quo

Only white guy farmers and plumbers should speak for the left from now on. Great optics on those dudes - the best

are you defending neoliberalism or ...?

Socialism beat fascism before and it can do it again

And before you say it'll never happen in this country, look at who's president

Also, our antiracism must never be seen as 'smug' or 'arrogant' and it must never be seen as inconvenient to white people, because they might find that abrasive. And while militant, it should of course always be tolerant of racism, because otherwise it's hypocritical. And also, it should never be overplayed because economics is the way to go.

fred i'm not sure whom yr arguing with but if it's me it needs some work

i think he's arguing with flappy bird

fred u cant even get the ppl who agree with u to agree with u maybe youre not the guy to come up the strategies for the nonvoters

I don't know what anyone's arguing anymore. But could we stop seriously using the term "optics" because it is redolent of smug tv commentators that should be reassigned to valuable occupations like managing wastewater treatment plants.

also stop using "our" and "we" ya damned dane, you can't vote here

this is a dumb conversation

^^ new board description

treeship otm

anyway my wife and I just booked spots on one of the Cleveland buses for the Million Women March on Jan. 21 so if anyone else is going we will see you there

are you defending neoliberalism or ...?

― sarahell, Sunday, November 20, 2016 5:53 PM (three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

u asking me? I was just saying I don't think we should interpret Trump win as a fundamental break with the past, where the only choice is now to chart a course to Socialism or stay in fascism. the easiest choice is still to elect a centre-left liberal Democrat in four years (maybe someone more Bernie than Hillary, whatever). we don't need to have a socialist revolution just cuz we elected a moron who is courted by the alt-right

I have tentative plans to go to DC for whatever protests end up happening

I think they will be big, yuuge even

i'm probably going to be there too

yes flopson, i was asking you, and thanks for clarifying and not responding in the form of a ridic challop

flopson asks a good question, which is what do we mean by "socialism"? what would a revolutionary program look like in an era where the bargaining power of labor has been totally liquidated?

and on another subject:
https://www.fastcompany.com/3065777/inside-gab-the-new-twitter-alternative-championed-by-the-alt-right

It's entirely possible that many political philosophies can defeat fascism, and probably a combination of them will be required - OF COURSE - but what I took from dlh's post, or what i wanted to take, was that only stiff opposition will work. we can't JD Vance it.

xpost maybe the first thing to recognize is that the bargaining power of labour has NOT been totally liquidated. the US has legal structures that ensure freedoms to organize and to strike that 100 years ago were pipe dreams

too bad all those union dudes love trump

labor in the USA is going to be reduced to smithereens by the time four years is up

they won't love trump when he ends up not delivering.

I do think we should be as obstructionist to Trump as Republicans were to Obama (if not more), but we all know that's not going to happen.

Good article

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/to-resist-a-trump-presidency-ask-what-would-the-abolitionists-do/2016/11/18/2615a136-a767-11e6-8fc0-7be8f848c492_story.html?hpid=hp_no-name_opinion-card-e%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.62f01cbbb0af

https://d17oy1vhnax1f7.cloudfront.net/items/0R3j0b2Z1J2S101T3h0Y/Superman%20is%20not%20a%20dick.jpg

flopson, i'm confused, I thought you were Canadian.

lol ya I am Canadian, sry I keep using "we" to mean 'the US left'

ie canada

it's just "weird" idk that today's discussion has been 1/2 foreigners and ex-pats.

Anglophones in Quebec have a particularly strong identification with Americans, imo (we don't feel Québecois, but also buy enough into the idea that Québec isn't part of Canada to not feel Canadian). my francophone girlfriend has no idea why I'm so torn up about the election of Donald Trump lol

also US Politics is just a topic of universal interest and no one needs a justification to care about it (imo)

Hamilton is global!

us politics is not just a topic of universal interest, it's also a topic of universal relevance

the rest of the world should get some token rest of the world state to vote in

And also, the discussion between an 'identitarian' approach and a strictly economist approach to the ascendant populist right is important all over the world. In Denmark the Danish Peoples Party became the main support for the right-wing government back in 2001. We've had the same discussion you're having now for fifteen years at this point.