Mourning in America - Trump Year One: November '16 to

kev otm

also who gives a fuck about the optics, do we think the right won through laser-focused discipline on messaging? iirc they spent the last 8 years focused on sideshows of a far more noxious variety

they kinda did, actually. despite the mess of a campaign, donald trump hammered down his message pretty well.

From what i'm hearing about Hamilton it seems like a strange show for somebody like Pence to want to go and see apart from it being the current hit musical that everybody needs to see.
But the comments from the stage seem to be an articulate representation of how the cast felt and gibven the opportunityy to say something remaining silent might have been as strange.

xxp - no one on the left, even an actor in a play who is not a politician, should not do or say anything without considering the "tactical" implications? What a shit country.

yeah seriously, guys the cast of hamilton is not an arm of the democratic party

right answer but yr workings idk xp

xxp - no one on the left, even an actor in a play who is not a politician, should not do or say anything without considering the "tactical" implications? What a shit country.

― sarahell, Sunday, November 20, 2016 3:29 PM (one minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

exactly the type of overly cautious thinking that led to such electoral success for the clinton campaign

Flappy Bird, wouldn't that woman agree with the Hamilton cast? She says this: Let people say what they will. Shame them publicly for cruel, offensive statements that are inconsistent with American values.

if yr still pretending that it matters whether or not the liberals being scoffed at amongst the majority of american voters are official dem cru or not well

not calling you out, sarahell, agreeing with your general in case it's unclear

i understand it but it really makes me sad that the left has started mirroring the right post-Obama's election.

This shit is driving me nuts. The right's post-Obama antics were based entirely on fantasy and fiction.

xp sarahel like i said i don't care, say whatever you want, more power to you. but if you're going to do a publicity stunt, which this was, that's probably something to consider

but hey who knows maybe when the trump administration is debating whether to privatize medicare or deport a million undocumented immigrants mike pence will remember when he saw that guy at the play call him "sir" twice and rethink denying people their inalienable rights

they kinda did, actually. despite the mess of a campaign, donald trump hammered down his message pretty well.

― iatee, Sunday, November 20, 2016 3:26 PM (five minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i totally agree with that, i just mean the whole "this is why 'real america' hates us, the dems are dropping the ball again" narrative around a pointless weekend sideshow has nothing to do with electoral politics.

kev emphatically not otm, and his baseless speculation about why a group of black and hispanic actors, some of them lgbt, might want to say something to Mike Pence, is really nagl.

nobody talking about how trump endorsed schumer? lol https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/800339165829283840

did anyone research why half of eligible voters didn't vote?

― sarahell, Sunday, November 20, 2016 5:24 PM (ten minutes ago) Bookmark

they need to make election day a national holiday

also voter suppression

the idea of letting people say what they will and then shaming them, whoever said it originally, seems like the issue. people should argue with each other, back and forth, even if they might not reach common ground in the end. clinton wasn't frank enough and so the phantasm of her the right had created had more substantive reality to voters than the actual person

I suspect that 'donald trump declares war on snobby cast of hamilton' won't play as well when donald trump has actual responsibilities / shitty rural towns continue to be shitty rural towns in 2 years etc. etc.

hamilton doesn't matter and what the hamilton people say doesn't matter, the speech was fine

don't worry about broadway musicals, worry abt whether or not the opposition party plans to pick up any weapons anytime soon

i haven't read a single actual leftist suggesting that in reminding themselves they are allegedly a workers' party the dems should decide racism's not so bad, but i sure have read a lot of clintonites insisting that's what the left wants and that the party is totally fine and noble

obviously no left deserving of the name is anything less than militantly antiracist

obviously a genuine class politics in the u.s. requires militant antiracism at its center just to make any sense

half the country couldn't bring itself to vote; if you think the evil in america's bosom means the only way anyone can do better than hillary is by snarling about muslims you might as well start rehearsing your heils right now

only socialism kills fascism; anyone who says otherwise is selling something

anyone got a good thing I can read on the awfulness of Schumes?

I think, at this point, it's like Florence Reece asked:

Which side are you on?

https://theintercept.com/2016/11/14/chuck-schumer-the-worst-possible-democratic-leader-at-the-worst-possible-time/

(in other words dlh otm) xpost

DLL xp

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/20/opinion/sunday/the-end-of-identity-liberalism.html?ref=opinion&_r=0

or dlh rather

only socialism kills fascism; anyone who says otherwise is selling something

― difficult listening hour, Sunday, November 20, 2016 5:38 PM (one minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

didn't the capitalists win last time though? i don't get this

as someone who has emphatically not followed politics until it nov. 9 even i have always had an impression of chuck schumer as being in the pockets of wall street - think i might have picked that up from the financial crisis / following OWS

only socialism kills fascism; anyone who says otherwise is selling something

― difficult listening hour, Sunday, November 20, 2016 5:38 PM (one minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

onky x can y: sounds like the language of someone with a truckload of x tbh

dmac, what are the immigration laws of ireland like

i mean, "america is already great" wasn't so inspiring to people. the democrats at least need to make a claim to improve the conditions of the people who want to vote for them. this wasn't as much of an issue when their opponents were conservatives who just wanted to shrink the government and could maybe promise a tax cut, but up against fascists promising the moon u get the picture

obviously no left deserving of the name is anything less than militantly antiracist

I don't think this is obvious, given that ppl seem to want to recreate The Jungle

flopson: eventually, yes, a coalition of mostly capitalist countries defeated the fascists in the most destructive war in history, nationalizing industry in the process and w a lil help from 25 million dead communists. was hoping we could nip it in something closer to the bud this time tho

djp if it's not obvious by all means let's work to make it obviouser

only socialism kills fascism; anyone who says otherwise is selling something

― difficult listening hour, Sunday, November 20, 2016 2:38 PM (five minutes ago)

i think bombs and guns and war crimes tribunals have done so in the past.

but the conflation of working-class politics w white supremacy (and the working class w the "white working class") and committed trump voters with the millions upon millions of stayhomes is an error xxps

dmac, what are the immigration laws of ireland like

no blacks, dogs or irish

lol ok so you guys are strapping in for ww3 then? xxp

who's on our side again?

Trump, in all his ignorant bullshit, did v v well to make the single dominating headlines this weekend abt Hamilton instead of his multi-million settlement.

Good luck USA, good luck with your new president. For you are truly, truly screwed. And the rest of "the west" will be dragged along in this magnificent downfall. Thanks, thanks again. You fucking imbeciles.

but the conflation of working-class politics w white supremacy (and the working class w the "white working class") and committed trump voters with the millions upon millions of stayhomes is an error xxps

― difficult listening hour, Sunday, November 20, 2016 2:47 PM (twenty-six seconds ago)

this is otm

lol ok so you guys are strapping in for ww3 then? xxp

― difficult listening hour, Sunday, November 20, 2016 2:48 PM (thirty-seven seconds ago)

uh, we were pointing out basic historical facts that disprove your "challenging opinion" -- I agree with the rest of your post, but the only socialism bit was absurd.

dmac, what are the immigration laws of ireland like

― 龜, Sunday, 20 November 2016 22:43 (four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

"nothin we havent done ourselves please lads"

We need militant antiracism! But just not in the theater, because that is impolite, and really, think of the optics.

Socialism is not gonna beat fascism IMO (the only people I see saying so are, uh, socialists) and our best bet is to step back from the ledge and revert course to the previous status quo

Only white guy farmers and plumbers should speak for the left from now on. Great optics on those dudes - the best

are you defending neoliberalism or ...?

Socialism beat fascism before and it can do it again

And before you say it'll never happen in this country, look at who's president

Also, our antiracism must never be seen as 'smug' or 'arrogant' and it must never be seen as inconvenient to white people, because they might find that abrasive. And while militant, it should of course always be tolerant of racism, because otherwise it's hypocritical. And also, it should never be overplayed because economics is the way to go.

fred i'm not sure whom yr arguing with but if it's me it needs some work

i think he's arguing with flappy bird