did anyone research why half of eligible voters didn't vote?
― sarahell, Sunday, 20 November 2016 22:24 (seven years ago) link
were at musical
― the kids are alt right (darraghmac), Sunday, 20 November 2016 22:25 (seven years ago) link
also who gives a fuck about the optics, do we think the right won through laser-focused discipline on messaging? iirc they spent the last 8 years focused on sideshows of a far more noxious variety
― intheblanks, Sunday, November 20, 2016 5:20 PM (three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i just want everyone to be able to get along well enough that they can have a conversation. i understand it but it really makes me sad that the left has started mirroring the right post-Obama's election. like i think anyone that abhors Trump should do their best to dispel with the fiction (lol) that all progressives are contemptuous of them and are intolerant of their beliefs (even if that it is the case...)
― flappy bird, Sunday, 20 November 2016 22:25 (seven years ago) link
i emphatically *don't care* about the hamilton controversy or whatever but unless you're being dense for the sake of it it's not hard to see why a useless speech, whose sole purpose was to generate attention and controversy, at a freaking BROADWAY PLAY so exclusive and expensive that ordinary americans can't see it, might be poor tactics considering the anti-cosmopolitan sentiment that contributed to our losing the election
― k3vin k., Sunday, 20 November 2016 22:26 (seven years ago) link
kev otm
― the kids are alt right (darraghmac), Sunday, 20 November 2016 22:26 (seven years ago) link
they kinda did, actually. despite the mess of a campaign, donald trump hammered down his message pretty well.
― iatee, Sunday, 20 November 2016 22:26 (seven years ago) link
From what i'm hearing about Hamilton it seems like a strange show for somebody like Pence to want to go and see apart from it being the current hit musical that everybody needs to see.But the comments from the stage seem to be an articulate representation of how the cast felt and gibven the opportunityy to say something remaining silent might have been as strange.
― Stevolende, Sunday, 20 November 2016 22:29 (seven years ago) link
xxp - no one on the left, even an actor in a play who is not a politician, should not do or say anything without considering the "tactical" implications? What a shit country.
― sarahell, Sunday, 20 November 2016 22:29 (seven years ago) link
yeah seriously, guys the cast of hamilton is not an arm of the democratic party
― iatee, Sunday, 20 November 2016 22:30 (seven years ago) link
right answer but yr workings idk xp
― the kids are alt right (darraghmac), Sunday, 20 November 2016 22:30 (seven years ago) link
xxp - no one on the left, even an actor in a play who is not a politician, should not do or say anything without considering the "tactical" implications? What a shit country.― sarahell, Sunday, November 20, 2016 3:29 PM (one minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― sarahell, Sunday, November 20, 2016 3:29 PM (one minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
exactly the type of overly cautious thinking that led to such electoral success for the clinton campaign
― intheblanks, Sunday, 20 November 2016 22:31 (seven years ago) link
Flappy Bird, wouldn't that woman agree with the Hamilton cast? She says this: Let people say what they will. Shame them publicly for cruel, offensive statements that are inconsistent with American values.
― Frederik B, Sunday, 20 November 2016 22:31 (seven years ago) link
if yr still pretending that it matters whether or not the liberals being scoffed at amongst the majority of american voters are official dem cru or not well
― the kids are alt right (darraghmac), Sunday, 20 November 2016 22:32 (seven years ago) link
not calling you out, sarahell, agreeing with your general in case it's unclear
― intheblanks, Sunday, 20 November 2016 22:32 (seven years ago) link
i understand it but it really makes me sad that the left has started mirroring the right post-Obama's election.
This shit is driving me nuts. The right's post-Obama antics were based entirely on fantasy and fiction.
― and this section is called boner (Phil D.), Sunday, 20 November 2016 22:33 (seven years ago) link
xp sarahel like i said i don't care, say whatever you want, more power to you. but if you're going to do a publicity stunt, which this was, that's probably something to consider
but hey who knows maybe when the trump administration is debating whether to privatize medicare or deport a million undocumented immigrants mike pence will remember when he saw that guy at the play call him "sir" twice and rethink denying people their inalienable rights
― k3vin k., Sunday, 20 November 2016 22:34 (seven years ago) link
they kinda did, actually. despite the mess of a campaign, donald trump hammered down his message pretty well.― iatee, Sunday, November 20, 2016 3:26 PM (five minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― iatee, Sunday, November 20, 2016 3:26 PM (five minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i totally agree with that, i just mean the whole "this is why 'real america' hates us, the dems are dropping the ball again" narrative around a pointless weekend sideshow has nothing to do with electoral politics.
― intheblanks, Sunday, 20 November 2016 22:34 (seven years ago) link
kev emphatically not otm, and his baseless speculation about why a group of black and hispanic actors, some of them lgbt, might want to say something to Mike Pence, is really nagl.
― Frederik B, Sunday, 20 November 2016 22:34 (seven years ago) link
nobody talking about how trump endorsed schumer? lol https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/800339165829283840
― 龜, Sunday, 20 November 2016 22:34 (seven years ago) link
― sarahell, Sunday, November 20, 2016 5:24 PM (ten minutes ago) Bookmark
they need to make election day a national holiday
also voter suppression
― 龜, Sunday, 20 November 2016 22:35 (seven years ago) link
the idea of letting people say what they will and then shaming them, whoever said it originally, seems like the issue. people should argue with each other, back and forth, even if they might not reach common ground in the end. clinton wasn't frank enough and so the phantasm of her the right had created had more substantive reality to voters than the actual person
― Treeship, Sunday, 20 November 2016 22:35 (seven years ago) link
I suspect that 'donald trump declares war on snobby cast of hamilton' won't play as well when donald trump has actual responsibilities / shitty rural towns continue to be shitty rural towns in 2 years etc. etc.
― iatee, Sunday, 20 November 2016 22:37 (seven years ago) link
hamilton doesn't matter and what the hamilton people say doesn't matter, the speech was fine
don't worry about broadway musicals, worry abt whether or not the opposition party plans to pick up any weapons anytime soon
i haven't read a single actual leftist suggesting that in reminding themselves they are allegedly a workers' party the dems should decide racism's not so bad, but i sure have read a lot of clintonites insisting that's what the left wants and that the party is totally fine and noble
obviously no left deserving of the name is anything less than militantly antiracist
obviously a genuine class politics in the u.s. requires militant antiracism at its center just to make any sense
half the country couldn't bring itself to vote; if you think the evil in america's bosom means the only way anyone can do better than hillary is by snarling about muslims you might as well start rehearsing your heils right now
only socialism kills fascism; anyone who says otherwise is selling something
― difficult listening hour, Sunday, 20 November 2016 22:38 (seven years ago) link
anyone got a good thing I can read on the awfulness of Schumes?
― flopson, Sunday, 20 November 2016 22:38 (seven years ago) link
I think, at this point, it's like Florence Reece asked:
Which side are you on?
― illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Sunday, 20 November 2016 22:39 (seven years ago) link
https://theintercept.com/2016/11/14/chuck-schumer-the-worst-possible-democratic-leader-at-the-worst-possible-time/
― 龜, Sunday, 20 November 2016 22:39 (seven years ago) link
(in other words dlh otm) xpost
DLL xp
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/20/opinion/sunday/the-end-of-identity-liberalism.html?ref=opinion&_r=0
― Treeship, Sunday, 20 November 2016 22:40 (seven years ago) link
or dlh rather
― difficult listening hour, Sunday, November 20, 2016 5:38 PM (one minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
didn't the capitalists win last time though? i don't get this
― flopson, Sunday, 20 November 2016 22:40 (seven years ago) link
as someone who has emphatically not followed politics until it nov. 9 even i have always had an impression of chuck schumer as being in the pockets of wall street - think i might have picked that up from the financial crisis / following OWS
― 龜, Sunday, 20 November 2016 22:40 (seven years ago) link
onky x can y: sounds like the language of someone with a truckload of x tbh
― the kids are alt right (darraghmac), Sunday, 20 November 2016 22:41 (seven years ago) link
dmac, what are the immigration laws of ireland like
― 龜, Sunday, 20 November 2016 22:43 (seven years ago) link
i mean, "america is already great" wasn't so inspiring to people. the democrats at least need to make a claim to improve the conditions of the people who want to vote for them. this wasn't as much of an issue when their opponents were conservatives who just wanted to shrink the government and could maybe promise a tax cut, but up against fascists promising the moon u get the picture
― Treeship, Sunday, 20 November 2016 22:43 (seven years ago) link
I don't think this is obvious, given that ppl seem to want to recreate The Jungle
― ¶ (DJP), Sunday, 20 November 2016 22:43 (seven years ago) link
flopson: eventually, yes, a coalition of mostly capitalist countries defeated the fascists in the most destructive war in history, nationalizing industry in the process and w a lil help from 25 million dead communists. was hoping we could nip it in something closer to the bud this time tho
― difficult listening hour, Sunday, 20 November 2016 22:44 (seven years ago) link
djp if it's not obvious by all means let's work to make it obviouser
― difficult listening hour, Sunday, 20 November 2016 22:46 (seven years ago) link
― difficult listening hour, Sunday, November 20, 2016 2:38 PM (five minutes ago)
i think bombs and guns and war crimes tribunals have done so in the past.
― sarahell, Sunday, 20 November 2016 22:47 (seven years ago) link
but the conflation of working-class politics w white supremacy (and the working class w the "white working class") and committed trump voters with the millions upon millions of stayhomes is an error xxps
― difficult listening hour, Sunday, 20 November 2016 22:47 (seven years ago) link
no blacks, dogs or irish
― and this section is called boner (Phil D.), Sunday, 20 November 2016 22:47 (seven years ago) link
lol ok so you guys are strapping in for ww3 then? xxp
― difficult listening hour, Sunday, 20 November 2016 22:48 (seven years ago) link
who's on our side again?
Trump, in all his ignorant bullshit, did v v well to make the single dominating headlines this weekend abt Hamilton instead of his multi-million settlement.
Good luck USA, good luck with your new president. For you are truly, truly screwed. And the rest of "the west" will be dragged along in this magnificent downfall. Thanks, thanks again. You fucking imbeciles.
― Le Bateau Ivre, Sunday, 20 November 2016 22:48 (seven years ago) link
― difficult listening hour, Sunday, November 20, 2016 2:47 PM (twenty-six seconds ago)
this is otm
― sarahell, Sunday, 20 November 2016 22:48 (seven years ago) link
― difficult listening hour, Sunday, November 20, 2016 2:48 PM (thirty-seven seconds ago)
uh, we were pointing out basic historical facts that disprove your "challenging opinion" -- I agree with the rest of your post, but the only socialism bit was absurd.
― sarahell, Sunday, 20 November 2016 22:49 (seven years ago) link
― 龜, Sunday, 20 November 2016 22:43 (four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
"nothin we havent done ourselves please lads"
― the kids are alt right (darraghmac), Sunday, 20 November 2016 22:50 (seven years ago) link
We need militant antiracism! But just not in the theater, because that is impolite, and really, think of the optics.
― Frederik B, Sunday, 20 November 2016 22:51 (seven years ago) link
Socialism is not gonna beat fascism IMO (the only people I see saying so are, uh, socialists) and our best bet is to step back from the ledge and revert course to the previous status quo
― flopson, Sunday, 20 November 2016 22:52 (seven years ago) link
Only white guy farmers and plumbers should speak for the left from now on. Great optics on those dudes - the best
― illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Sunday, 20 November 2016 22:53 (seven years ago) link
are you defending neoliberalism or ...?
― sarahell, Sunday, 20 November 2016 22:53 (seven years ago) link