Rolling US Economy Into The Shitbin Thread

Let's keep in mind that "Main Street" was directly incenting the banks in all this. Whoever blinked first was going to see their shares dumped. Fuck just blaming Wall Street - Wichita is just as culpable.

"We had to destroy that village to save it. From socialism!"

I'd gather most people agree with Nader, but people are too lazy to take action to work for society on any level other than -maybe- sometimes getting off the couch to vote once every four years for the president. IT'S UP TO US PEOPLE. LET'S TAKE 2 THE STR33TS. first we'll take whole foods, then the G8 summit. i need some vegan burtos man

Morb's America is sort of like the Kingdom of the Now and Not Yet.

If the bailout passes and it doesn't help, congress will be blamed for passing it.
If the bailout passes and it helps, congress will still be blamed for passing it.
If the bailout doesn't pass and things go to shit, congress will be blamed for not passing it.
But if the bailout doesn't pass and things don't go to shit, only then will congress actually receive any credit for not passing it.

But if the bailout doesn't pass and things don't go to shit, only then will congress actually receive any credit for not passing it.

that is why we have checks and balances and a two-house legislature!

I mean congress' ultimate goal should always be to retard the executive branch, and vice versa, this is a nation founded on fairly conservative principles that unilateral govt action is bad news

Their inaction this past week has allowed the market to finally incorporate known problems into market valuation. the worse the dow dives the better off we are for the long run IMO

If the scarier claims floating around aren't actually true, then I agree.

the more i repeat aloud to myself what the plan entails the more i become opposed to it and glad it tanked.

banks made a lot of risky bets that failed, and now want the government to magically make those bets profitable by buying them off at a rate to be plucked from the air. the banks get away clean and the taxpayer is left holding a bunch of dirty paper that may never be worth anything. agreeing to a bunch of lefty controls doesn't seem to cover for the central conceptual shittiness of the plan.

the ownership-stake plan seems like a better solution to me.

eh the market has really only incorporated the the slim probability that the gov wont save it

The market has not yet incorporated the possibility that government salvation won't save it

Their inaction this past week has allowed the market to finally incorporate known problems into market valuation. the worse the dow dives the better off we are for the long run

Can you explain?

If the scarier claims floating around aren't actually true, then I agree.

If they were true, then DJIA should have sucked a lot more wind after the house blew up the plan. There is plenty of business in this country that doesn't necessarily need to rely on i-banks for capital. Tomorrow is a bigger day, as Tom Wolfe noted, since it's a hedge fund gate. We'll see. I am disinclined to believe Hank or Ben's prophecies when both of them have made rather transparent their disdain for the idea that they are accountable to anyone.

TOMBOT OTM.

Tomorrow is Bloody Tuesday, a redemption fest for HFs.

If they were true, then DJIA should have sucked a lot more wind after the house blew up the plan.

Hogwash. If the market accurately reflected foreseeable crises in the near future it would have tanked a long time ago.

markets are still betting congress will get something done - theyre just not quite as sure as they were before

Alfred, I believe that the necessary adjustments will either have to be taken sooner or later, and the "later" option puts us on a path to a Japan-style decade of recession and stagnation. I'd rather just cut the foot off now.

The paper this morning was saying the hedge funds are next, people are cashing out so they have to sell assets and this going to send the markets further down, but Tom is right, there's whole segments of the economy that rely on cashflow, supply and demand and not credit and capital investment and they will keep going, they'll feel the bumps but by an large they will keep going.

I feel as though all this will impact me in absolutely no way.

Unless somehow fate finally kicks in and I have to start hooking it.

I haven't checked the state of my mutual funds this month yet.

If I wind up needing non-federal loans next year it could hurt me, although so far that's not very likely. It seems that consumer goods prices will be held down somewhat by sinking demand. I'm assuming crime will go up and government services will decrease. The job market may be still be very shitty in three years when I graduate. My parents retirement will probably suffer, although I don't know if it will be to the point that I'll have to help support them. That's in the non-worst-case-scenario, anyway.

Is there a Rolling Mutual Funds Hit The Shitter thread?

Ihaven't checked my IRA for the last 6 mos.

and I just did lol

Yeah, I pledged to myself not to check mine, although I have a ROUGH idea how ugly it is.

my company chose this week to transfer our 401ks from massmutual to fidelity; maybe a good choice, but we're also locked out of them all this week.

I think my 401(k) is beating the national average! And that is the only good news.

yes, Congress will definitely get something done. but the GOP wants to play footsy with the credit markets for a couple of days by faking Democrats into voting for something that they said they'd vote for too. their little game of chicken is to force more Dems in opposing districts to vote for the thing that, while elsewhere pushing the meme that Dems are obstructionist/responsible for the failure.

in the meantime, people like Don mouth GOP talking points about how Pelosi is responsible for their little stunt

Your little lady can defend herself just fine without you puffing your chest.

i'm not 'defending' Pelosi, though of course you would frame it that way, i'm telling you to stop spouting bullshit

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/28/business/28melt.html

a few dudes going buck in a room bring down aig / goldman exposed / feds step in

great article!

Don's Pelosi comment was wrong, but, still, why are you in such a hurry to defend these guys? The whole pack of'em got us in this mess in the first place, so excuse me if I'm not being so charitable to Barney Frank and his rapier wit.

sorry, Al, I know you believe the "whole pack of'em" bullshit just must inherently be true, but it's wrong

one party voted for this. one party voted against it. simple as that.

of course we've seen the House GOP being political babies before, haven't we?

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/08/05/house-republicans-continue-vacation-protest/

and oh for the good old days

http://politicalwire.com/archives/2008/08/06/gingrich_threatens_government_shutdown.html

Frank is chairman of the House Finance Committee, gabbs; whether he deserves blame for this incarnation of the bill, he was in charge as this meltdown occurs, and received thousands of dollars from these banks. What's so hard to understand? You're goddamn right I'm blaming everyone.

hey guess what this thread is about economics

and we alllllll pay.

it's just nice to see congress acting like itself again after seven long years of weak sauce intermittently broken up by lockstep with the administration

one party voted for this. one party voted against it. simple as that.

― gabbneb, Monday, September 29, 2008 5:14 PM (4 minutes ago)

uh by 'this' do you mean the bailout? dems were 60/40 yes, reps were 60/40 no, that's hardly simple

its somewhat simple

yes Hurting 2, right now I'm debating this whole law school thing... of course I'm taking out significantly more money than you are in loans. We'll both be stuck in this "brave new world" NYC economy in 3 years.

Working on JARNDYCE & JARNDYCE case.

If all you're worried about is money, see if you can transfer to CUNY or some decent private that will offer you more scholarship. But you sound like you're not only worried about the money, judging from that other thread.

What other thread? I'm also worried about my sanity, if you mean -every- thread.

though the truth is, the structure of NYC law schools (including tuition) is built on the old version of NYC law life, which depended on Wall Street.. Now that Wall Street will "never be the same again", it's going to have this crazy trickle down effect, from the high flying big firm and corporate lawyers, all the way down to legal aid.

The debt I'm personally taking out (though not quite as bad as those without scholarships) is built on the assumptions of the old way, which obviously doesn't exist anymore. As in, my big worry is there'll be less government, public interest, and other positions due to 1) less tax money and 2) there being fewer positions for -all- attorneys in NYC, thus raising the standards for all jobs to a ridiculous degree.

So legal education based on the old way seems incongruous with entering the scary new uncharted waters we're finding ourselves in now. $_$

please, Al, Frank has been chair under a Republican President not known for his fondness for financial services regulation and a sub-filibuster Democratic Congress for 21 months. and he has proposed legislation and held hearings. but keep believing what Billo tells you.