Mourning in America - Trump Year One: November '16 to

And I also think it's a bit of a strawman to cast Sanders, Warren and Ellison as people who think we should just pretend bigotry doesn't exist and court the Trump base.

also i don't think he portrays them in this way. he writes

"Both Warren and Sanders emphasize that bigotry was part of Trump’s message. But they want to separate the “deplorables” from the larger group of more ordinary Americans who just wanted a change of pace. .... But there’s a problem here, and it’s found in the cast given to Trump’s campaign and Trump’s voters. Both Warren and Sanders describe Trump’s effort as a populist campaign with an almost incidental use of racial prejudice."

he doesn't describe sanders/warren as pretending bigotry doesn't exist. he disagrees with the lack of emphasis that they place on bigotry.

idk about "crying" over romney's loss but let us never forget the post-election mega-rant youtube woman, discussion beginning here: The Choice of a New Denigration: the US Election Day 2012 Thread

― dustalo springsteen (Doctor Casino),

how in hell could you look at that thread and not weep

winter is coming. and after that, something even worse

Rep. Tom Price (R-GA), the chairman of the budget committee, told reporters on Thursday that Republicans are eyeing major changes to Medicare in 2017.

Price, who is being floated as a possible Health and Human Services Secretary in the next administration, said that he expects Republican in the House to move on Medicare reforms "six to eight months" into the Trump administration.

He also noted that Republicans are eyeing using a tactic known as budget reconciliation to make the change. That process allows Republicans to pass bills with a simple majority in the U.S. Senate.

When asked by TPM about timing for changes to Medicare, Price said "I think that is probably in the second phase of reconciliation, which would have to be in the FY 18 budget resolution in the first 6-8 months."

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/tom-price-reveals-republicans-eyeing-medicare-overhaul-in-2017

bouie's point is sound but frankly i don't think warren-sanders-ellison expect trump to govern like a working class populist at all. when they meet the reality of what's likely to happen i don't think their position and reid's are going to be different.

one thing to think about: the senate runoff in louisiana

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2016-11-16/democrats-can-t-write-off-the-last-senate-race-in-louisiana

I agree with this piece

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2016/11/the_democrats_are_already_screwing_up_the_trump_resistance.html

― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Thursday, November 17, 2016 11:59 AM (fifty-three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i read that yesterday. love bouie and he makes a good academic point that voting with trump or republicans in a sense legitimizes the tactics he used to win the election. however, i'd say unfortunately that that horse has already left the barn -- the tactics were legitimized when the electoral votes came in. and i'm not sure what the implication for lawmakers is realistically supposed to be -- there are going to be plenty of pieces of minor legislation that come along that genuinely are going to help people. are democrats supposed to just refuse to vote for them out of principle?

how do you cut something as popular as medicare without immediately losing the next election?

And also the idea of work and being productive is something that I feel tends to sway people towards Republicanism and conservatism. Like if you simplified the appeals of Bernie and Trump, on the Bernie side, a lot of people were stoked by the idea of getting things for free: education, health care, dismissal of student loan debt, whereas the Trump appeal was, I will give you something valuable to work for.

The idea behind this, what you're calling "Republicanism", came from think tanks and were broadcast over corporate-owned media. This isn't a belief inherent in human nature or the spirit of America. At the dawn of the century Americans joined together and died for better rights and benefits for themselves. During the Great Depression people got their skulls bashed in for what Republicans call the "welfare state" for moochers and takers.

It's a matter of governing philosophy and what people believe. Right now what most Americans believe as being natural was created intentionally over the past few decades, and since corporate interests control just about all of the media in this country, it's the only message that's broadcasted.

Nothing is going to change until these beliefs are challenged and replaced with an alternate governing philosophy, and can somehow reach people (and in this environment, I have no fucking idea how that would happen). So there's really no point in debating this issue until that's dealt with. It'll probably take some kind-of collapse or breakdown in the current order, and Trump definitely isn't that, he exemplifies the current order.

also goole otm. common sense

how do you cut something as popular as medicare without immediately losing the next election?

― ciderpress, Thursday, 17 November 2016 17:58 (twenty-one seconds ago) Permalink

And in the middle of 2018 election season? They won't even get a simple majority. I'm scratching my head at this, unless it's some kind of bargaining strategy or I don't know what the fuck, it makes no sense.

Like I know they are ideologues but they can't be that fucking dumb, but I'm sitting here trying to figure out what the devious plan behind that move is and so far I'm not seeing it. There has to be one, right?

idk, at some point the purpose of being in government has to be getting done the shit you want to get done, not about winning future elections. if they really want to gut medicare, now's the time

it seems like a tough sell to me as does axing ACA, but voters seem more than willing to swallow a bucket of lies, so I wouldn't count on there being consequences if this comes to pass.

I'm counting on nothing, but how do you lie about "we cut medicare"? It's pretty straightforward.

idk, at some point the purpose of being in government has to be getting done the shit you want to get done, not about winning future elections. if they really want to gut medicare, now's the time

― k3vin k., Thursday, November 17, 2016 1:03 PM (three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

"gutting" it symbolically right before you get swept out of congress and overruled isn't really getting shit done

they won't "cut" it, they'll "strengthen" it

blame the cut on ACA overreach and half the country is like "yep"

@man alive voters bought into a whole suite of absolutely ridiculous lies during the election season, the right wing merely needs to start spreading rumors that cutting medicare was the last gasp of desperation by an outgoing Obama administration or some such absurd lie and people will eat that shit up too.

if I were Paul Ryan, I'd gut Medicare too

right, didn't you realize that ACA fatally hurt medicare and now they need to shoot the patient? Plus, look at how much money they can save, how much taxes they can cut, how much less dependent on government socialism all those old people are, how much this has improved the business of providing health insurance, etc.

hey won't "cut" it, they'll "strengthen" it

exactly. from paul ryan's website:

Medicare is the cornerstone on which all other government health care programs rest. Unfortunately, the deteriorating financial conditions of this program are threatening beneficiary access to its benefits. In their most recent report, the Medicare Trustees projected that the account that funds Medicare’s hospital benefit will be exhausted in 2028. Reports like this illustrate that we can no longer let politicians in Washington deny the danger to Medicare – it is all too real, and the health of our nation’s seniors is far too important. We have to save Medicare to avoid disruptions in benefits for current seniors and to strengthen the program for future generations. - See more at: http://paulryan.house.gov/issues/issue/?IssueID=9969#sthash.Q9GkFX7a.dpuf

they're not cutting it, and they won't stop at merely strengthening it - they are SAVING it!

All of them Trump vogers.

I know what is meant here but my head automatically went to this:

http://cdn.funcheap.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/VOGUE.jpg

they are euthanizing it, along with all those elderly moochers who used it

If the GOP is some kind of brilliant diabolical lie-spreading machine that can convince literally anyone anything then why not just fucking give up? I think that's pretty clearly not the case. Old people vote, they love medicare, and they're not reading Breitbart for news. And "they're cutting your medicare" is a much easier sell than "Well actually we're going to save it due to...*long wonky paragraph*"

bouie's point is sound but frankly i don't think warren-sanders-ellison expect trump to govern like a working class populist at all. when they meet the reality of what's likely to happen i don't think their position and reid's are going to be different.

― goole, Thursday, November 17, 2016

otm

can someone photoshop Jason Chaffetz's face on Madonna

If the GOP is some kind of brilliant diabolical lie-spreading machine that can convince literally anyone anything then why not just fucking give up?

that's not a reason to give up, it's a reason to pay attention to what they're clearly telegraphing ahead of time, fight it, and not assume that people will make what seems to be the very obvious correct decision to punish the GOP for taking this course of action.

man alive, I'm not saying you're wrong, I hope you are right. But I also just witnessed the wholesale acceptance of a raft of lies and hatred by a large portion of the country, so who knows?

Trump voters weren't voting out of racism. They did it because they care deeply about non-white people and know that the hardship of living in an even more overtly racist nation will help build their character and make them better people.

Trump likes giving the NY Times a little shot in the arm every fifteen minutes because he wants them to try harder and to succeed.

if we learned anything from the trump debacle, i hope it's to not take anything for granted. dismissing any attempt to cut medicare out of hand sounds a lot like August 2015-Nov 2016 when the idea of trump winning was so ridiculous that it was beyond discussion for a lot of people

at least on the topic of the ACA, there's a large portion of the country that wants to kill it for some reason. One of the benefits of ACA is that it strengthened (not destroyed) the budget for medicare. It also provided health insurance to a lot of people that previously couldn't pay for it. People seem to really hate all of this for some reason.

Just as they are going to spin their Medicare plan, they are going to do the same for their infrastructure rebuilding plan, but how will Schumer and other Dem senators respond to it...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2016/11/17/why-democrats-need-to-fight-donald-trump-from-the-moment-he-takes-office/

As a general matter, there are two reasons that Democrats might support a Republican effort on something like infrastructure. The first is that their support produces something good for the country that wouldn’t have happened otherwise. The second is that it provides some political advantage for them. And it’s hard to see either of those things happening.

On the first point, from what we can tell, Trump’s infrastructure plan consists mostly of tax breaks for private companies to build roads and bridges that they can then charge tolls on. This leaves out enormous needs, particularly the maintenance and repair that are vitally important and will return great benefits but that aren’t as easy for private companies to monetize.

It’s possible that by joining the effort, Democrats might be able to persuade Republicans to make their infrastructure bill more effective. But the truth is that Republicans don’t need Democratic votes and are just as likely to say, “Thanks for your input, but we’re going to do it our way.”

If that’s true and Democrats can’t extract major substantive concessions, do they get political benefit from joining Republicans on this bill? That brings us to what Republicans did eight years ago. You may remember that literally on the day Barack Obama was inaugurated, Republican leaders got together for dinner and decided on a strategy of total opposition: Don’t work with him on anything, fight to make every initiative fail, and generally make his life miserable in the hope they could take back Congress and keep him from winning reelection. Though Obama got reelected, otherwise the strategy was a tremendous success.

Paul Ryan just wants to bring Medicare into the 21st century by making it work with the market to provide more competitive and efficient services for the people who helped build the backbone of America.

What will happen is the same thing with private insurance, lots of people who go bankrupt or can't afford care and die anonymous deaths, and are ignored or demonized by the media and politicians as being losers or entitled to something they didn't earn, wash, rinse, repeat.

racist old ppl are the gop golden goose, seems like a big risk for them no matter how they spin it

km otm

if anyone learns anything from this election i hope it's to throw out any and all premises about american politics.

racist old ppl are the gop golden goose, seems like a big risk for them no matter how they spin it

Demonizing people and calling them losers certainly hasn't hurt the GOP, these people just found targets for their self-loathing.

at least on the topic of the ACA, there's a large portion of the country that wants to kill it for some reason. One of the benefits of ACA is that it strengthened (not destroyed) the budget for medicare. It also provided health insurance to a lot of people that previously couldn't pay for it. People seem to really hate all of this for some reason.

― Al Moon Faced Poon (Moodles), Thursday, November 17, 2016 1:16 PM (one minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

There are a lot of reasons people dislike ACA that have nothing to do with A) the reasons people LOVE Medicare or B) "lies" although they certainly may be magnified by damage the GOP has done to the ACA on purpose. I really think it would be useful for Democrats to try to understand some of this rather than just say "Oh, we gave people this great program but they hate it so what can we do."

I'm as concerned as anyone that the GOP will find some way to cut medicare, but this "oh they can sell anything to anyone" attitude is defeatist.

I mean yeah, if they campaign on fixing medicare and we don't fucking do anything about it, then yes people will believe them. But they're handing us a cudgel to beat them with. We still have to swing it.

also, if the medicare cutting plan is so foolish that it has not chance of passing, it's still a great time to promote the fact that the GOP is pushing it right now, even if they don't end going through with it. let all of the old white people that just voted for Trump know that they just voted for a party that is actively trying to cut their medicare. they won't believe you, probably, but it could be the first of a death by 1000 cuts

The first lie to combat is Ryan's bullshit about the ACA bankrupting Medicare. It's a perfect way to undercut the legitimacy of the ACA while providing a reason to gut Medicare under the second lie of "saving it."

please note, I am all in favor of fighting Republicans on Medicare and ACA repeal, and if either comes to pass there absolutely needs to be strong messaging to convey how this is hurting people. I am only saying that I'm not convinced Republicans will end up being particularly punished for any of this.

I'm as concerned as anyone that the GOP will find some way to cut medicare, but this "oh they can sell anything to anyone" attitude is defeatist.

The Democrats aren't innocent in this, either. Both parties have worked to dismantle public benefits. The line of thinking that allows the public to accept this is broadcast over our beloved corporate-controlled media, and it's always eerie hearing people repeat copy word for word that was written up by some flack and played over TV, and believing it to be the truth, despite being unable to explain what the hell they're talking about.

Figure this, our political system works on providing benefits to campaign donors and patrons, and elections are really just built around what politician gets in to provide services for these donors and patrons. So for this Medicare thing to be successfully fought, you'd have to find politicians who have donors whose interests outweigh the interests of the donors who want Medicare privatized/cut, as in, is this project worth the risk of losing out on other projects for other patrons.

Voters are just a means into getting into this position, and they're pretty well worked over at this point, so they're not a big deal, they vote for shit that hurts them all the time because they sincerely believe the opposite of reality at this point.

also, if the medicare cutting plan is so foolish that it has not chance of passing, it's still a great time to promote the fact that the GOP is pushing it right now, even if they don't end going through with it. let all of the old white people that just voted for Trump know that they just voted for a party that is actively trying to cut their medicare. they won't believe you, probably, but it could be the first of a death by 1000 cuts

― Karl Malone, Thursday, November 17, 2016 1:22 PM (sixteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Absolutely, we should start spreading word about this immediately, maybe quietly at first and increasing in volume as we get closer to 2018.

I agree with this piece

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2016/11/the_democrats_are_already_screwing_up_the_trump_resistance.html

― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40)

i... get where bouie is coming from, but i'm not sure how supporting a black muslim as dnc chair serves to "obscure the fundamental tribalism of trump's appeal".

i like the notion of a "good cop/bad cop" approach. and if warren and sanders want to be the good cops and say "we understand your economic anxieties", i think there's a place for that. i just don't think that should, or will, be the be-all and end-all of responding to trump.

please note, I am all in favor of fighting Republicans on Medicare and ACA repeal, and if either comes to pass there absolutely needs to be strong messaging to convey how this is hurting people. I am only saying that I'm not convinced Republicans will end up being particularly punished for any of this.

― Al Moon Faced Poon (Moodles),

There's a history of wins, as I wrote about here. One of the reasons why Reagan lost operational control of the House in the 1982 midterm elections was the relentlessness with which Speaker Tip O’Neill framed the stakes with the starkness of a telegram: the Republicans want to gut Social Security, the Democrats want to save it. In the end Reagan, reeling, acquiesced, signing a bill in 1983 that in effect repudiated every thing he’d ever said about it. And don't forget Dubya's Social Security accounts. How far did that get?

Yes, that. Simple effective message.

90% of people do not even understand the lie that Paul Ryan is trying to tell them.

how do you cut something as popular as medicare without immediately losing the next election?

Maybe his supporters will be cool with it, burn it all down, give it a chance, we've tried absolutely everything short of shutting it down, so let's try that! I know on paper it will hurt me and my family, but my heart says, what the hell.