Mourning in America - Trump Year One: November '16 to

(Doctor Casino) I've been posing here for more than a decade now, on and off. I think you misunderstood my posts. I have never been a republican, ever! Though I do agree with some of the core principles, same with the democrats. As time passes I find less and less to agree with republicans on but I still can't completely side with the democratic party. And I haven't said anything about immigrants. I mentioned what many of my co workers have said to me because they voted for trump. I've never posted on political threads before, because I usually don't like talking about politics.

a fairer economic system is not a cure for racism. however, it could help alleviate one particularly noxious form that racism has taken this campaign: scapegoating minorities.

There's been a lot of talk of bubbles. My bubble - which is to say, my inner-burb block of 20 houses and an apartment complex or so - features Jewish families, Indian immigrant families, Irish immigrant families, Spanish speakers, a gay couple, blue collar workers, academics, artists, professionals, the unemployed, stay at home parents, retirees, teachers, section 8 housing, families with kids in college, families with newborns, tiny 100 year old homes, bigger new construction homes ... and that's just my block, off the top of the head. If I am in a bubble, and what my bubble is missing is asshole Trump voters, then I think my bubble is doing ok and their bubble is the one that needs to burst. In fact, this election was partly a response against having their bubble burst. Oh, poor (middle class) white working class, it's not the 1950s anymore, what to do?

Has this been posted? https://twitter.com/williamjordann/status/798876695629545473

Jordan tries to take a look at polling, and changes in poll results, pre- and post-Comey Letter to see how much it contributed to what we saw.

I'm responding to got no reason not to hold them in contempt. we are talking about some deeply contemptible motherfuckers here, whose meaning I may've misinterpreted.

― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn)

aight since i've been called dumb and self-righteous on this thread (not by al tho) i guess it's up to me to prove it.

when i look at trump voters, i don't think most of them are actively racist. i see people who care so little about values, have so little commitment to their personal beliefs, that they will without hesitation vote for a racist because, i don't know, "lesser evil" or "email server" or "he doesn't mean it" or whatever festering load of shit they've swallowed to justify their actions. i just don't see any way that i can ever trust or respect somebody like that.

i'll take any judgment people want to put on me. i don't care about the "optics", i'm not running for president, i'm not so much as running for dogcatcher, i'm probably not even a good person deep down. i'm not going to go out and confront trump voters on this to their face, but neither can i swallow the hurt, anger, betrayal, and hatred i feel towards what people who voted for trump have done.

The living embodiment of Poe's Law: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-intersect/wp/2016/11/17/facebook-fake-news-writer-i-think-donald-trump-is-in-the-white-house-because-of-me/?tid=sm_tw

I mean the guy is almost certainly overstating his effect on anything besides his own pocketbook, but $10,000 a month for propagating fake news to eager idiots is scary. My mother-in-law, my aunt, and several of my first and second cousins were among the people eating that stuff up. All of them Trump vogers.

Re: factors that won the election for Trump, concurrent with the Comey bullshit was someone on Trump's staff finally duct taping oven mitts to his hands for a week+. If he'd still been crowing on Twitter he probably would've sunk himself, but the American public's inability to remember anything saved the day.

One thing about what Late Great writes, which I've seen written many places, is this idea that racists should be treated like children. Explicitly. What happened to treating people with respect, like an adult human being? Aren't we condemning them as too dumb to function as adults, if we're basically saying they have the abilities of five year olds?

Thing is, of course, in society in general, and this is true in the US, but also extremely common in debates about immigrants in DK, minorities are never treated like kids. Even 12 year olds are treated like adults. Whenever the discussion becomes about something bad that happens in immigrant neighborhoods - honor killings, misogyny, unemployment - and side goes 'well perhaps with investments and more education, they could...' it gets cut off: 'no, they need to take responsibility for themselves!' But when white people fuck up society much more severely than any terrorist has ever managed to do, the immediate response becomes 'right, what can we all do for them to make sure they don't do it again'

It might be true, though, many many Trump voters have the cognitive ability of a small child. And as the baby boomer generation will get even older, that won't get better. And there's another truth in here, which is that we simply can't write off the white people, not yet, while minorities, as the name indicates, don't matter enough politically to get their wishes taken seriously. But in the end, that's a question of power, not rights. We're treating stupid white people with kid gloves, because they've just shown they have the power to fuck things up if they don't get their will, no matter how unfair and stupid that will is. And they don't hesitate to use it.

In the end, it will change. The boomer generation will die off, and they will be thought off as the worst people ever. That is the main light in the tunnel, at some point the Clinton coalition will become stronger than this. How to get their earlier, how to get some of the deplorables to abandon ship, that I don't know.

American public's inability to remember anything saved the day.

yeah this was for sure deflating. the number of people who stamped their feet in the ground after the Access Hollywood tape and shouted, "holy shit, this guy is horrible", watched as a dozen women accused him of doing exactly the thing he bragged about doing, and then two weeks later were like....well that's all in the past

can't remember if ilx thinks Yglesias is an asshole or not but he's otm here

http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/11/17/13626514/trump-systemic-corruption?utm_campaign=mattyglesias&utm_content=chorus&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter

hey sorry for the long drunken late night post. to jacobsanders, i should go back and actually find the posts if i'm going to call you out on details - mea culpa.

Regime-friendly banks receive a light regulatory touch while their rivals are crushed.

This would be a more terrifying prospect if there was a bank that the mainstream Republican or Democratic party ever met that they didn't like. Now banks who like the Preident-Elect, that's another matter.

speaking of vox, this article seems relevant to our ongoing discussion:

http://www.vox.com/first-person/2016/11/17/13642864/trump-election-empathy-baratunde-thurston

Did Republicans really cry over Romney's loss? Pics or it didn't happen.

a tear-streaked binder of women

Donald Trump made racial attitudes more important in the general election, too. I showed earlier that racial resentment, unfavorable opinions of African-Americans and ethnocentrism were significantly stronger predictors of whites’ preferences for Trump or Clinton than they were in hypothetical match-ups between Clinton and Ted Cruz or Marco Rubio.

Many of these same racial attitudes are also heavily influenced by education. College-educated whites and whites who live in highly educated areas of the country have long been much more racially tolerant than other white Americans.

It turns out that this relationship between education and racial attitudes explains a very large portion of the education gap in white support for Trump. Indeed, the graphs below show that the negative effects of education on white support for Trump vanishes after accounting for attitudes about both African Americans and immigrants.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2016/11/16/the-education-gap-among-whites-this-year-wasnt-about-education-it-was-about-race/

"The boomer generation will die off, and they will be thought off as the worst people ever."

sadly, they are all trying to live to be 200 years old. i keep waiting for them to start getting daily fetal cell injections or something in order to keep the reaper at bay.

covered by the medicare they don't want to pay for

Basically he finds a lot of evidence that if education affected your attitudes about race generally, that has an extremely close parallel with trump support, to the extent that if you control for education affecting your attitudes about race, the effect of education on trump support disappears

(Maybe this is obvious but I had to read it twice to get it)

xpost i can vouch that JacobSanders has an impeccably progressive attitude toward otherwise underrepresented private-press LPs.

JacobSanders do you love free market capitalism and think its potentials limitless if it were only 'truly' free...or are you just trying to deal with the current setup?

― conrad, Saturday, 12 November 2016 14:48 (five days ago) Permalink

i like that the republican governor of massachusetts didn't vote for trump (or anyone) but did go to the voting booth to vote no on pot legalization. he still had to look a LITTLE republican.

he also said he was going to take obama's wait and see attitude with trump. he doesn't like that alt-right guy at all. or trump for that matter.

still, fuck charlie baker imo

To conrad I would say it's a little of both. What frustrates me is our two party system. I know wanting other options is not looking squarely at reality.

Actually, if anyone of you live in Maine, they passed the ranked choice voting amendment, so third parties should do much better there!

would not 'truly free' capitalism allow for monopolies? eliminate child labor laws? absolve environmental disasters? where is the line drawn? who draws it and who would 'interpret' it?

itt: EVERYTHING

I never said I'm for a free market without regulation! I'm pro-union, labor laws, anti-discrimination laws, EPA, DOT, FERC, etc. I thought I said that upthread, maybe not, I'm very poor at explaining myself when it comes to politics. I was mainly talking about health care. When I talk about free market I'm mainly talking about healthy competition. Like when the EpiPen skyrocketed in price. As I understand it there was one company producing it so they could charge whatever they wanted? If I'm failing to understand something, please let me know.

I can't keep up with this thread, but given you guys seem to touching on all of the nations current and hypothetical problems...

https://img.pandawhale.com/post-58335-good-luck-were-all-counting-on-ClLw.gif

Having thought everything over, I think it comes down to blaming Le Tigre for that awful, terrible pro-Clinton song.

word. sorry JacobSanders for jumping to the wrong conclusions!

yeah i haven't been reading this really.all i know is that I fucking hate people that voted for this shithead more and more everyday.

"I'm pro-union, labor laws, anti-discrimination laws, EPA, DOT, FERC, etc."

maybe you should move to france, ya commie!

we have to embrace trump supporters. hug them. take them to our breast. they know not what they do. suffer their annoying children...i mean suffer the children and forbid them not. all that. show them what real christians look like. even though you aren't a christian.

I agree with this piece

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2016/11/the_democrats_are_already_screwing_up_the_trump_resistance.html

lol scott

I agree with this piece

me too

And also the idea of work and being productive is something that I feel tends to sway people towards Republicanism and conservatism. Like if you simplified the appeals of Bernie and Trump, on the Bernie side, a lot of people were stoked by the idea of getting things for free: education, health care, dismissal of student loan debt, whereas the Trump appeal was, I will give you something valuable to work for.

A little late, and I know we're on the same side wrt the issue, but I feel like something often gets missed in the discourse around education policy: education IS something valuable that you have to work for, even if you don't pay tuition. It's not a consumer good that can be acquired for free when the financial cost is eliminated or socialized.

I agree with the Bouie piece up to a point, but I find it simplistic and useless in terms of actually crafting any kind of winning political strategy. And I also think it's a bit of a strawman to cast Sanders, Warren and Ellison as people who think we should just pretend bigotry doesn't exist and court the Trump base.

I mean the plan this time around was to shout "The people over there are racist and terrible" for the entire campaign and hope it scared the base enough to come out. It failed. So we should double down?

i dunno, he does point to reid's response as a better alternative for how to address the bigotry:

"I have personally been on the ballot in Nevada for 26 elections and I have never seen anything like the reaction to the election completed last Tuesday. The election of Donald Trump has emboldened the forces of hate and bigotry in America."

Reid continues:

"We as a nation must find a way to move forward without consigning those who Trump has threatened to the shadows. Their fear is entirely rational, because Donald Trump has talked openly about doing terrible things to them. …
If this is going to be a time of healing, we must first put the responsibility for healing where it belongs: at the feet of Donald Trump, a sexual predator who lost the popular vote and fueled his campaign with bigotry and hate. Winning the electoral college does not absolve Trump of the grave sins he committed against millions of Americans. Donald Trump may not possess the capacity to assuage those fears, but he owes it to this nation to try."

Reid doesn’t preclude cooperation; this isn’t a call for blockade. What the Nevada senator does, however, is center the fears and concerns of nonwhite Americans. He essentially offers conditional terms: If you work to reduce and repudiate the fear and hate of your campaign, then there is a chance to “move forward.” Otherwise, there are no deals to make. Reid’s statement has all the room you need for a populist message to working-class whites. But it makes that message contingent on buy-in for an inclusive agenda, attuned to the concerns of marginalized Americans. In this vision, the concerns of those Americans are correctly understood as populist concerns, indispensable to the whole.

idk about "crying" over romney's loss but let us never forget the post-election mega-rant youtube woman, discussion beginning here: The Choice of a New Denigration: the US Election Day 2012 Thread

And I also think it's a bit of a strawman to cast Sanders, Warren and Ellison as people who think we should just pretend bigotry doesn't exist and court the Trump base.

also i don't think he portrays them in this way. he writes

"Both Warren and Sanders emphasize that bigotry was part of Trump’s message. But they want to separate the “deplorables” from the larger group of more ordinary Americans who just wanted a change of pace. .... But there’s a problem here, and it’s found in the cast given to Trump’s campaign and Trump’s voters. Both Warren and Sanders describe Trump’s effort as a populist campaign with an almost incidental use of racial prejudice."

he doesn't describe sanders/warren as pretending bigotry doesn't exist. he disagrees with the lack of emphasis that they place on bigotry.

idk about "crying" over romney's loss but let us never forget the post-election mega-rant youtube woman, discussion beginning here: The Choice of a New Denigration: the US Election Day 2012 Thread

― dustalo springsteen (Doctor Casino),

how in hell could you look at that thread and not weep

winter is coming. and after that, something even worse

Rep. Tom Price (R-GA), the chairman of the budget committee, told reporters on Thursday that Republicans are eyeing major changes to Medicare in 2017.

Price, who is being floated as a possible Health and Human Services Secretary in the next administration, said that he expects Republican in the House to move on Medicare reforms "six to eight months" into the Trump administration.

He also noted that Republicans are eyeing using a tactic known as budget reconciliation to make the change. That process allows Republicans to pass bills with a simple majority in the U.S. Senate.

When asked by TPM about timing for changes to Medicare, Price said "I think that is probably in the second phase of reconciliation, which would have to be in the FY 18 budget resolution in the first 6-8 months."

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/tom-price-reveals-republicans-eyeing-medicare-overhaul-in-2017

bouie's point is sound but frankly i don't think warren-sanders-ellison expect trump to govern like a working class populist at all. when they meet the reality of what's likely to happen i don't think their position and reid's are going to be different.

one thing to think about: the senate runoff in louisiana

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2016-11-16/democrats-can-t-write-off-the-last-senate-race-in-louisiana

I agree with this piece

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2016/11/the_democrats_are_already_screwing_up_the_trump_resistance.html

― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Thursday, November 17, 2016 11:59 AM (fifty-three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i read that yesterday. love bouie and he makes a good academic point that voting with trump or republicans in a sense legitimizes the tactics he used to win the election. however, i'd say unfortunately that that horse has already left the barn -- the tactics were legitimized when the electoral votes came in. and i'm not sure what the implication for lawmakers is realistically supposed to be -- there are going to be plenty of pieces of minor legislation that come along that genuinely are going to help people. are democrats supposed to just refuse to vote for them out of principle?

how do you cut something as popular as medicare without immediately losing the next election?