i saw a relative of a friend become very animated in a fb thread this week just because of the use of the word 'deplorables'. she said it changed her vote.
gotta think that most people who are willing to change their vote over something like that are just looking for an excuse
― iatee, Monday, 14 November 2016 23:23 (seven years ago) link
like twenty xps to horseshoe re: drinking - I haven't had a drink or cigarette since election night, pretty much decided it was time to actually start living healthier if I'm going to have to face a future of unchecked white nationalism, unaffordable healthcare and environmental deregulation (and because Trump would inevitably drive me to drink more and more). If I'm not a spry elderly person I'll be fucked.
― Kiarostami bag (milo z), Monday, 14 November 2016 23:24 (seven years ago) link
sanders and warren know they need to minimize the danger of a trump presidency, which means working with him,
NO it doesn't. It means opposing him tooth and nail, just like the GOP did with Obama. The only way to "work with" him is to exploit and drive wedges between him and the GOP leadership. But that won't be accomplished by publicly stated willingness to go along w him on stuff they happen to agree on. GOP didn't give an inch to Obama on shit they actually wanted, because they didn't want him to get the credit. Why would the Dems want Trump to get credit for doing anything, that will just cement his power.
xp
― Οὖτις, Monday, 14 November 2016 23:25 (seven years ago) link
i agree clinton had v detailed reasons why she'd make a great president (tho possibly not the clear, easy to understand reason she really needed), but ultimately the real problem was running as a continuation of obama. inequality has RISEN. people desperately want to SHAKE OUT OF THIS FUNK. it was a change election and clinton was an establishment candidate running on 'more of the same but better/more'. right? sorry for being all cap'n save-a-conventional-wisdom if that's what i'm being, i am receptive to hot takes, i'll take whatever i can get
― illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Monday, 14 November 2016 23:26 (seven years ago) link
Trump is smart enough to know that if he gets some accomodation out of Sanders or Warren or Schumer or whoever, that he has effectively damaged them politically, he will be co-opting them and claiming the lion's share of the glory, while they will be pilloried by former supporters.
― Οὖτις, Monday, 14 November 2016 23:27 (seven years ago) link
shakey otm, obstructionism is the way to go
maybe a slight pass for the few Democratic Senators left in deep-red states but I'd think the positioning should be to let the GOP fuck things up royally on their own and make the economic downturn and new deficit balloon centerpieces of 2018.
― Kiarostami bag (milo z), Monday, 14 November 2016 23:27 (seven years ago) link
yeah, I kinda saw Clinton as similar to LBJ in '68.
― sarahell, Monday, 14 November 2016 23:27 (seven years ago) link
Paul Ryan shoves through the end of Medicare, Trump vetoes it or relies on public accommodation with Sanders or Warren to kill it is a scenario I could easily see used to make him more palatable where he currently isn't
― Kiarostami bag (milo z), Monday, 14 November 2016 23:28 (seven years ago) link
we're all well aware of how the ability of a legislative minority to gum up the works is deeply embedded in our system (thx slave-owners!), time to exploit it. shoe's on the other foot now.
Trump isn't gonna veto shit.
― Οὖτις, Monday, 14 November 2016 23:30 (seven years ago) link
Trump doesn't even wanna show up for work
You really think Trump would veto a Medicare-end bill? He won't even read the bill.
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 14 November 2016 23:30 (seven years ago) link
^^^
― Οὖτις, Monday, 14 November 2016 23:31 (seven years ago) link
first you would have to explain to him what Medicare is, how it works, why Ryan wants to kill it... by that time he's already fallen asleep in his taco bowl
I've said repeatedly that Sanders would have won, but the discussion of what Clinton did wrong should take into account that she actually won the popular vote, and it's not really that close. Her mistakes were strategic, not fundamental. If it was a change year, why did the establishment candidate get more votes?
― Frederik B, Monday, 14 November 2016 23:33 (seven years ago) link
Daily Beast: CBS reports Trump wants top secret clearance for kids
― Distribution of all possible outcomes (Sanpaku), Monday, 14 November 2016 23:34 (seven years ago) link
It would be all about popularity and approval ratings for him - he doesn't actually need to read the bill or know what it is if he thinks it's going to make people not like him.
― Kiarostami bag (milo z), Monday, 14 November 2016 23:34 (seven years ago) link
how is he gonna know if people don't like him or not? the polls are all wrong! plus people are so excited at his rallies, they're just amazing! he will never think that any sizable chunk of the population legit does not like him.
― Οὖτις, Monday, 14 November 2016 23:35 (seven years ago) link
i don't see why total Rs-against-obama-style oposition isn't our #1 priority
who could possibly think we owe Rs any good faith? or that if we gave it they wouldn't abuse it?
― j., Monday, 14 November 2016 23:37 (seven years ago) link
it is our #1 priority, you're not going to see a serious voice on the left advocate working with trump
― k3vin k., Monday, 14 November 2016 23:37 (seven years ago) link
Sanders already did!
― Οὖτις, Monday, 14 November 2016 23:37 (seven years ago) link
and pvmic, but fuck this "senators in red states get a pass" nonsense. vote with your party
xp no he didn't..........................................................
― k3vin k., Monday, 14 November 2016 23:38 (seven years ago) link
Republicans re Obama: "Our primary goal is to make him a one-term president."Democrats re Trump: "We need to find ways to work together."
Yeah, it's gonna be an awesome eight years.
multiple xposts obviously
― Don Van Gorp, midwest regional VP, marketing (誤訳侮辱), Monday, 14 November 2016 23:38 (seven years ago) link
sigh.
the norms of american politics and peaceful transitions of power dictate that people say nice things after an election. he's not gonna vote with the republicans xp
― k3vin k., Monday, 14 November 2016 23:39 (seven years ago) link
i'm sure you can find plenty of examples of republicans making nice after obama's 2008 win. it's not binding and doesn't mean shit
right - and I am hoping that all this "hey let's give him a chance" bullshit evaporates by January 21st but otoh idk Dems post-Reagan have been really stupid/cowardly when in this position.
i'm sure you can find plenty of examples of republicans making nice after obama's 2008 win.
would be curious what you dig up tbh
― Οὖτις, Monday, 14 November 2016 23:40 (seven years ago) link
the norms of american politics and peaceful transitions of power dictate that people Democrats say nice things after an election.
― Don Van Gorp, midwest regional VP, marketing (誤訳侮辱), Monday, 14 November 2016 23:40 (seven years ago) link
I do remember more than a couple Republicans in November 2008 muttering about Working Together For the Sake of the Country.
Before the inauguration.
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 14 November 2016 23:41 (seven years ago) link
remember Judd Gregg? He was all set to be appointed to the Cabinet until he got pressure in January 2009.
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 14 November 2016 23:42 (seven years ago) link
Biden says that during the transition, he was warned not to expect any cooperation on many votes. “I spoke to seven different Republican Senators, who said, `Joe, I’m not going to be able to help you on anything,’ he recalls. His informants said [Senate Minority Leader Mitch] McConnell had demanded unified resistance. “The way it was characterized to me was: `For the next two years, we can’t let you succeed in anything. That’s our ticket to coming back,’” Biden says.
The vice president says he hasn’t even told Obama who his sources were, but Bob Bennett of Utah and Arlen Specter of Pennsylvania both confirmed they had conversations with Biden along these lines.
― Οὖτις, Monday, 14 November 2016 23:43 (seven years ago) link
this feels like bizarro world. Sanders being grown up doing the dirty job of consensus politics while Hillary stans want him to rage against the system.
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Monday, 14 November 2016 23:43 (seven years ago) link
ah good old arlen specter
― k3vin k., Monday, 14 November 2016 23:44 (seven years ago) link
^^ I thought I'd seen every kind of sentence
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 14 November 2016 23:46 (seven years ago) link
the deplorables comment was badly calculated and i would see it as a major misstep in any other campaign. it still defies understanding why that was seen as worse than virtually anything trump has said in public over these past eighteen months
I'm sort of interested in whether that was the first time anyone used "deplorable" as a noun.
― Spiritual Hat Minimalism (Sund4r), Monday, 14 November 2016 23:47 (seven years ago) link
Like, it was remarkable poetic for HRC.
Aargh, remarkably
it was used before, just by snooty 19th century robber barons
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Monday, 14 November 2016 23:48 (seven years ago) link
basket of remarkables
― ciderpress, Monday, 14 November 2016 23:48 (seven years ago) link
deplorables was a fake controversy
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Monday, 14 November 2016 23:51 (seven years ago) link
oh come on
― k3vin k., Monday, 14 November 2016 23:52 (seven years ago) link
certainly doesn't make her seem less like a reptilian space alien
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Monday, 14 November 2016 23:53 (seven years ago) link
it was a "fake controversy" in the sense that clinton wasn't wrong, but it's still a pretty dumb thing for a politician to say about people who might be voting for her
― k3vin k., Monday, 14 November 2016 23:54 (seven years ago) link
she was saying it about people who explicitly wont vote for her
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Monday, 14 November 2016 23:54 (seven years ago) link
the repurposing of the nasty woman thing was good.
― sarahell, Monday, 14 November 2016 23:56 (seven years ago) link
I knew it was a mistake when defenders rushed to say, "But if you read the NEXT paragraph..."
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 14 November 2016 23:56 (seven years ago) link
im just saying there are exactly zero people who weren't already not voting for her who decided not to vote for her when she said it
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Tuesday, 15 November 2016 00:00 (seven years ago) link
there's not a soul on the planet, including the deplorables themselves, who don't believe there arent some "deplorable people." It's like making fun of Trump's skinny hands but for the right, it's a dumb meme that convinces no one & only exists to assert in group status among conservatives
*tiny hands, dunno why i said skinny.
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Tuesday, 15 November 2016 00:01 (seven years ago) link
Sure, but that's what happened with the high levels of late-breaking undecided voters - if you've seen 10 minutes of Donald Trump and you're undecided, you're trying to find an excuse for yourself to vote for him when you know it's indefensible. And if you don't find one, you'll still find one.
Obama & Trump - Come on, he's finally found a Republican who will listen to him!
Actually pretty much that - It's obviously uncomfortable to him that here's this idiot who won't have a fraction of the trouble that Obama had getting stuff done, but Obama is def. exactly the kind of dork who will suck it up in the hope of getting some good done.
― Andrew Farrell, Tuesday, 15 November 2016 00:14 (seven years ago) link
The excuse for late-breaking voters were given to them by Comey.
― Frederik B, Tuesday, 15 November 2016 00:22 (seven years ago) link
xp xp xp
lopk. last sunday i read a piece where west virginians who were already pissed about hillary's stance on coal were literally saying clinton had 10,000+ gullotines ready for her opponents' necks:
https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/politics/2016/11/05/west-virginia-citizens-paint-dystopian-picture-under-clinton-presidency/jDCbxZ0Dkz8Xd5B2MUdp3O/story.html
this was not a normal election and you can't use normal narratives to explain it away. one side had been demonized extra (because she was already in the hole for being an ambitious woman) by right wing BROADCAST media for a quarter century. there were "impeach hillary" bumper stickers when she was FIRST LADY.
i feel like this race was in some ways a particularly rancid manifestation of nostalgia culture. (which is not to say there weren't other curdled elements, but bear with me.) clinton and trump are both brands that have been molded in the public since the "gosh, 57 channels do seem like a lot" era, and in a lot of ways they were fighting as their avatars from 20 years ago. what up and comers have that sort of name recognition among a mass quotient of the electorate? jeb, maybe. but i don't think he wants to run again. the national parties' benches are alarming to me because i feel like an even worse demagogue could capture the electorate's imagination (if we have a functioning government in four years, which, lol).
(i swear to god if i don't have a stroke before the year ends i'll consider it a success. i've already had two aura migraines in the last week and quitting fb and twitter has yet to help. also anyone who doesn't think sanders would have been strung up by anti-semites is delusional. trump's final campaign ad was a 21st century rewrite of THE PROTOCOLS OF THE ELDERS OF ZION ffs!)
― maura, Tuesday, 15 November 2016 00:28 (seven years ago) link