Mourning in America - Trump Year One: November '16 to

lol I thought "pointe dout" was a french rhetorical term for a sec

this white resentment/white identity politics garbage

it may be "garbage" but it's real.

while sanders would have done better on that issue and trump will have egg on his face in a few years when all those rust belt factories are still crumbling, I really wonder if we can 'beat' the combination of white identity politics + "I will literally give all of you good jobs" w/ smart folksy sanders socialism or whatever.

The way these blockers work is to analyse if the manually blocked accounts has someone in common that they follow, then blacklist followers of those accounts. The reason it works is because people like for instance Lee Fang rile up his followers with falsehoods against people he disagrees with, then throws up his hands when that inevitably results in harassment. Having a blocker puts a roadblock on a main way that online harassment works. It's not about criticism at all, it's about drowning in useless messages, some critical, some harassing, some even threatening, every time the same dude tweets something negative about you.

x-posts.

Yes, I know it's real. And if you have to pander to it to get votes, I don't want any part of it.

I really don't think class politics has to be white-exclusive or race-based.

I hope not. It seemed that way in 2008 and 2012. I guess we'll see in two years.

BTW: http://www.brooklynpaper.com/stories/39/47/dtg-trump-attack-bar-tabac-2016-11-18-bk.html

while sanders would have done better on that issue and trump will have egg on his face in a few years when all those rust belt factories are still crumbling, I really wonder if we can 'beat' the combination of white identity politics + "I will literally give all of you good jobs" w/ smart folksy sanders socialism or whatever.

― iatee, Monday, November 14, 2016 2:34 PM (one minute ago)

i think at this point it's most important to keep blaming third party voters

you can't beat lies with the truth until people care about the truth

I don't think it's just the socialism tbh, I think it's also something about the way Sanders just sounds sincere in his concern for working people, backed up at least in some sense by his record and consistency. Some people just respond to a perception of personal integrity. I think it would indeed be a mistake for democrats to think they can just, like, reengineer some standard-issue democrat slightly toward a more class-oriented politics and win. I mean that's sort of what "progressive Clinton" was.

xp - I'm not saying that Sanders' socialism is even the answer, or the best alternative.

If Trump follows in the footsteps of his "mentor," there will be major infrastructure projects that will employ these rust belt people, and maybe he will create a new American car in his image.

lolling @ a car that looks like Trump

any politics that blames the individual voters is not much of a politics

http://i.imgur.com/Ds8bxYo.gif

GOP hates infrastructure projects, that isn't going to happen

it wouldn't look like those dull volkswagons for sure. It would be the best car!

the wall is an infrastructure project, right

^^

IDK, I wouldn't rule it out as part of a deal for slashing other fed spending. plenty of politicians of all stripes still like pork barrel projects don't they?

Sanders didn't have to beat Trump amongst white voters, just chip into it enough to win the extremely close Midwest. And he would probably have at least tried, though probably not for the right reasons.

However, he didn't win the primaries. And it wasn't close. And it wasn't because the DNC conspired to put all the debates on saturdays and leak to Clinton that people in Flint was concerned about Flint. The real question is more that if someone like Sanders could win the election, how will you get them to win the primaries? And Sanders' recent tweets doesn't help with that, sigh.

Don't know much about Peter Daou, but I do recommend the album he produced for his wife Vanessa setting Erica Jong poems to soft jazz.

I don't think it's just the socialism tbh, I think it's also something about the way Sanders just sounds sincere in his concern for working people, backed up at least in some sense by his record and consistency. Some people just respond to a perception of personal integrity. I think it would indeed be a mistake for democrats to think they can just, like, reengineer some standard-issue democrat slightly toward a more class-oriented politics and win. I mean that's sort of what "progressive Clinton" was.

― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Monday, November 14, 2016 2:37 PM (three seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

during the primary campaign there was a whole messaging movement, parroted by many on these threads, that anything suggesting clinton was insincere or not a true progressive was simply naked misogyny or an internalization of right-wing talking points. it was repeated and trotted out so often that i think the people making the argument even came to believe it themselves. seems in retrospect like projecting a whole host of positions, beliefs, and virtues on someone like clinton was...a mistake

#actually bernie's recent tweets...are fine

yeah, that was stifling to say the least xp

think it's weird to suggest that this election was actually about issues/policies/positions in any way - it was about competing cults of personality.

xp

in the end clinton's image was successfully tarnished by those right-wing talking points, so it seems like 'not-not a thing' that the left spent the primary tearing her image down

is that same peter daou!!!!? i interviewed him (and vanessa) in the 80s re some dance records they made for nu-groove

i guess that was a very long time ago

who even thought Clinton was a true progressive? I mean, there were plenty of people on the left bringing out right-wing talking points to discredit her, some of them scarily false -- scary, in that I had hoped people on the left would "know better." But she was/is a moderate, and the argument in her favor was pragmatic.

K3vin get's it. The answer to the election of Donald Trump is obviously to care less about misogyny.

i see you've been running my posts through google translate again

k3v, do you watch the History Channel show, Vikings?

a lot of mistakes were made in the democratic primary, the first one being forgetting that the purpose of running a primary is to gauge what your electorate wants, not to confirm that they want what you want them to want

I'm not going to sit here and say that progressive concerns about Clinton's closeness to big finance (for example) weren't sincere or warranted, or can just be dismissed as internalized right-wing talking points; but in the cold light of day, SECRET SPEECHES TO GOLDMAN SACHS looks like pretty weak tea next to "Trump may name Jamie Dimon as Sec. of the Treasury."

i do not xxp

My anecdotal evidence is that the democrats who didn't vote for Bernie in the primary did so in large part because "he can't win the general election". Any stats back this up?

idk I voted for Bernie in the primary, even though I didn't think he could win the general election, but I thought that showing that a lot of people were concerned about the issues he was talking about could influence the party platform in the general election.

looks like pretty weak tea next to "Trump may name Jamie Dimon as Sec. of the Treasury."

admittedly, that is just as scary as "Obama may name Jamie Dimon as Sec. of the Treasury" was 8 years ago.

k3v: Whatever. If you really think dem women will respond to the election of Donald Trump, a man who bragged about sexual assault, by being less likely to see sexism or misogyny amongst candidates, enjoy losing the next primary as well.

Sanders lost because he lost the black vote, mainly. And he never really cared about outreach and dismissed the south as unimportant, so there was no surprise there.

xp same here as what sarahell just said

k3v: Whatever. If you really think dem women will respond to the election of Donald Trump, a man who bragged about sexual assault, by being less likely to see sexism or misogyny amongst candidates, enjoy losing the next primary as well.

i honestly don't know what this is even in response to

bunch of xposts -- trump likely has a better shot at passing a big infrastructure bill than hrc would have. Dems like Sanders/Warren could present him with a plan and say "All Dems will vote for this, now we just to peel off a bunch of Repubs." Trump could then tell Ryan, "look, if you don't go along w/ me on infrastructure, the Dems will be getting credit for it." And then maybe the Repubs do end up backing it. i don't know if Trump has it in him to do this though.

hearts and minds!

i voted for Sanders in the primaries because i thought he had the best chance of winning the election, same as with Obama in 2008

My anecdotal evidence is that the democrats who didn't vote for Bernie in the primary did so in large part because "he can't win the general election". Any stats back this up?

― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger),

I'm not sure I can have this argument again.

xxpost The election was cult of personality vs. cult of no personality. As warm and funny as many close to Clinton claim she is, none of that has ever come across in her public persona.

And not to say that Trump isn't a scumbag (or douchebag or any other type of disreputable bag), but "bragging about sexual assault" struck me as left-wing overreach (no pun intended), the kind of thing that fires up the right. He was talking about the perks of celebrity, that women give men — even ratty 70-year-olds — sexual consent they wouldn't give ordinary people. I mean, Ron Wood just fathered twins for fuck's sake!

GOP hates infrastructure projects, that isn't going to happen

― Οὖτις, Monday, November 14, 2016 2:40 PM (four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

This means they're definitely going to happen right

I'm not going to sit here and say that progressive concerns about Clinton's closeness to big finance (for example) weren't sincere or warranted, or can just be dismissed as internalized right-wing talking points; but in the cold light of day, SECRET SPEECHES TO GOLDMAN SACHS looks like pretty weak tea next to "Trump may name Jamie Dimon as Sec. of the Treasury."

― and this section is called boner (Phil D.), Monday, November 14, 2016 2:50 PM (twelve minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Seriously? The current treasury secretary is the former COO of Citigroup

sorry, of a Citigroup subsidiary

one small silver lining of this election is that I finally feel freed to completely ignore all Frederik B posts about US Politics

lolling @ a car that looks like Trump

Assuming the yellowish color is tacky gold leaf it's probably this:

http://cdn.inquisitr.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/homer_front1.jpg

Frederik's posts will from now on pass across my eyes like the reflections of clouds drifting across window panes

I hate to use the word "optics" but there's a continuum from "any former C-level banking exec" to "guy whose name is nearly synonymous with the Great Recession and billionaire whining."

the "infrastructure projects" about which the MSN is going on about are tax credits to private business, i.e. a bunch of bullshit