this anti-3rd party voters schtick is gross, guys.
― sarahell, Monday, 14 November 2016 19:31 (seven years ago) link
there's a few big races still open xp
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/undecided-election-231295
― 龜, Monday, 14 November 2016 19:32 (seven years ago) link
I really don't think class politics has to be white-exclusive or race-based.
― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Monday, 14 November 2016 19:32 (seven years ago) link
Not like anyone cares about these quislings, but it's been amusing to me to read how quiet NRO has gotten: a couple of daily posts, tired liberal baiting which even the writers, I sense, are bored of. Same goes for Weekly Standard types like Bill Kristol (aka Bannon's "renegade Jew") and Steve Hayes. They lost and they know it. For the first time in a GOP administration they're irrelevant.
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 14 November 2016 19:32 (seven years ago) link
I wound up voting Clinton in a heavy blue state, taking nothing for granted.
― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Monday, November 14, 2016 2:29 PM (two minutes ago) Bookmark
as iatee has pointe dout, voting in a blue state contributes to hillary's popular vote margin of victory - it's accretive.
lol I thought "pointe dout" was a french rhetorical term for a sec
― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Monday, 14 November 2016 19:33 (seven years ago) link
this white resentment/white identity politics garbage
it may be "garbage" but it's real.
― sarahell, Monday, 14 November 2016 19:33 (seven years ago) link
while sanders would have done better on that issue and trump will have egg on his face in a few years when all those rust belt factories are still crumbling, I really wonder if we can 'beat' the combination of white identity politics + "I will literally give all of you good jobs" w/ smart folksy sanders socialism or whatever.
― iatee, Monday, 14 November 2016 19:34 (seven years ago) link
The way these blockers work is to analyse if the manually blocked accounts has someone in common that they follow, then blacklist followers of those accounts. The reason it works is because people like for instance Lee Fang rile up his followers with falsehoods against people he disagrees with, then throws up his hands when that inevitably results in harassment. Having a blocker puts a roadblock on a main way that online harassment works. It's not about criticism at all, it's about drowning in useless messages, some critical, some harassing, some even threatening, every time the same dude tweets something negative about you.
x-posts.
― Frederik B, Monday, 14 November 2016 19:35 (seven years ago) link
Yes, I know it's real. And if you have to pander to it to get votes, I don't want any part of it.
I hope not. It seemed that way in 2008 and 2012. I guess we'll see in two years.
BTW: http://www.brooklynpaper.com/stories/39/47/dtg-trump-attack-bar-tabac-2016-11-18-bk.html
― and this section is called boner (Phil D.), Monday, 14 November 2016 19:36 (seven years ago) link
― iatee, Monday, November 14, 2016 2:34 PM (one minute ago)
i think at this point it's most important to keep blaming third party voters
― k3vin k., Monday, 14 November 2016 19:36 (seven years ago) link
you can't beat lies with the truth until people care about the truth
― ciderpress, Monday, 14 November 2016 19:37 (seven years ago) link
I don't think it's just the socialism tbh, I think it's also something about the way Sanders just sounds sincere in his concern for working people, backed up at least in some sense by his record and consistency. Some people just respond to a perception of personal integrity. I think it would indeed be a mistake for democrats to think they can just, like, reengineer some standard-issue democrat slightly toward a more class-oriented politics and win. I mean that's sort of what "progressive Clinton" was.
― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Monday, 14 November 2016 19:37 (seven years ago) link
xp - I'm not saying that Sanders' socialism is even the answer, or the best alternative.
If Trump follows in the footsteps of his "mentor," there will be major infrastructure projects that will employ these rust belt people, and maybe he will create a new American car in his image.
― sarahell, Monday, 14 November 2016 19:38 (seven years ago) link
lolling @ a car that looks like Trump
― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Monday, 14 November 2016 19:39 (seven years ago) link
any politics that blames the individual voters is not much of a politics
http://i.imgur.com/Ds8bxYo.gif
― who is extremely unqualified to review this pop album (BradNelson), Monday, 14 November 2016 19:40 (seven years ago) link
GOP hates infrastructure projects, that isn't going to happen
― Οὖτις, Monday, 14 November 2016 19:40 (seven years ago) link
it wouldn't look like those dull volkswagons for sure. It would be the best car!
― sarahell, Monday, 14 November 2016 19:40 (seven years ago) link
the wall is an infrastructure project, right
― iatee, Monday, 14 November 2016 19:40 (seven years ago) link
^^
― sarahell, Monday, 14 November 2016 19:41 (seven years ago) link
IDK, I wouldn't rule it out as part of a deal for slashing other fed spending. plenty of politicians of all stripes still like pork barrel projects don't they?
― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Monday, 14 November 2016 19:41 (seven years ago) link
Sanders didn't have to beat Trump amongst white voters, just chip into it enough to win the extremely close Midwest. And he would probably have at least tried, though probably not for the right reasons.
However, he didn't win the primaries. And it wasn't close. And it wasn't because the DNC conspired to put all the debates on saturdays and leak to Clinton that people in Flint was concerned about Flint. The real question is more that if someone like Sanders could win the election, how will you get them to win the primaries? And Sanders' recent tweets doesn't help with that, sigh.
― Frederik B, Monday, 14 November 2016 19:41 (seven years ago) link
Don't know much about Peter Daou, but I do recommend the album he produced for his wife Vanessa setting Erica Jong poems to soft jazz.
― Distribution of all possible outcomes (Sanpaku), Monday, 14 November 2016 19:42 (seven years ago) link
― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Monday, November 14, 2016 2:37 PM (three seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
during the primary campaign there was a whole messaging movement, parroted by many on these threads, that anything suggesting clinton was insincere or not a true progressive was simply naked misogyny or an internalization of right-wing talking points. it was repeated and trotted out so often that i think the people making the argument even came to believe it themselves. seems in retrospect like projecting a whole host of positions, beliefs, and virtues on someone like clinton was...a mistake
― k3vin k., Monday, 14 November 2016 19:43 (seven years ago) link
#actually bernie's recent tweets...are fine
― k3vin k., Monday, 14 November 2016 19:44 (seven years ago) link
yeah, that was stifling to say the least xp
― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Monday, 14 November 2016 19:44 (seven years ago) link
think it's weird to suggest that this election was actually about issues/policies/positions in any way - it was about competing cults of personality.
xp
― Οὖτις, Monday, 14 November 2016 19:45 (seven years ago) link
in the end clinton's image was successfully tarnished by those right-wing talking points, so it seems like 'not-not a thing' that the left spent the primary tearing her image down
― iatee, Monday, 14 November 2016 19:46 (seven years ago) link
is that same peter daou!!!!? i interviewed him (and vanessa) in the 80s re some dance records they made for nu-groove
i guess that was a very long time ago
― mark s, Monday, 14 November 2016 19:47 (seven years ago) link
who even thought Clinton was a true progressive? I mean, there were plenty of people on the left bringing out right-wing talking points to discredit her, some of them scarily false -- scary, in that I had hoped people on the left would "know better." But she was/is a moderate, and the argument in her favor was pragmatic.
― sarahell, Monday, 14 November 2016 19:47 (seven years ago) link
K3vin get's it. The answer to the election of Donald Trump is obviously to care less about misogyny.
― Frederik B, Monday, 14 November 2016 19:48 (seven years ago) link
i see you've been running my posts through google translate again
― k3vin k., Monday, 14 November 2016 19:49 (seven years ago) link
k3v, do you watch the History Channel show, Vikings?
― sarahell, Monday, 14 November 2016 19:50 (seven years ago) link
a lot of mistakes were made in the democratic primary, the first one being forgetting that the purpose of running a primary is to gauge what your electorate wants, not to confirm that they want what you want them to want
― ciderpress, Monday, 14 November 2016 19:50 (seven years ago) link
I'm not going to sit here and say that progressive concerns about Clinton's closeness to big finance (for example) weren't sincere or warranted, or can just be dismissed as internalized right-wing talking points; but in the cold light of day, SECRET SPEECHES TO GOLDMAN SACHS looks like pretty weak tea next to "Trump may name Jamie Dimon as Sec. of the Treasury."
― and this section is called boner (Phil D.), Monday, 14 November 2016 19:50 (seven years ago) link
i do not xxp
― k3vin k., Monday, 14 November 2016 19:50 (seven years ago) link
My anecdotal evidence is that the democrats who didn't vote for Bernie in the primary did so in large part because "he can't win the general election". Any stats back this up?
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Monday, 14 November 2016 19:51 (seven years ago) link
idk I voted for Bernie in the primary, even though I didn't think he could win the general election, but I thought that showing that a lot of people were concerned about the issues he was talking about could influence the party platform in the general election.
― sarahell, Monday, 14 November 2016 19:52 (seven years ago) link
looks like pretty weak tea next to "Trump may name Jamie Dimon as Sec. of the Treasury."
admittedly, that is just as scary as "Obama may name Jamie Dimon as Sec. of the Treasury" was 8 years ago.
― Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Monday, 14 November 2016 19:54 (seven years ago) link
k3v: Whatever. If you really think dem women will respond to the election of Donald Trump, a man who bragged about sexual assault, by being less likely to see sexism or misogyny amongst candidates, enjoy losing the next primary as well.
Sanders lost because he lost the black vote, mainly. And he never really cared about outreach and dismissed the south as unimportant, so there was no surprise there.
― Frederik B, Monday, 14 November 2016 19:55 (seven years ago) link
xp same here as what sarahell just said
― and this section is called boner (Phil D.), Monday, 14 November 2016 19:55 (seven years ago) link
i honestly don't know what this is even in response to
― k3vin k., Monday, 14 November 2016 19:57 (seven years ago) link
bunch of xposts -- trump likely has a better shot at passing a big infrastructure bill than hrc would have. Dems like Sanders/Warren could present him with a plan and say "All Dems will vote for this, now we just to peel off a bunch of Repubs." Trump could then tell Ryan, "look, if you don't go along w/ me on infrastructure, the Dems will be getting credit for it." And then maybe the Repubs do end up backing it. i don't know if Trump has it in him to do this though.
― never have i been a blue calm sea (collardio gelatinous), Monday, 14 November 2016 19:58 (seven years ago) link
hearts and minds!
― sarahell, Monday, 14 November 2016 20:00 (seven years ago) link
i voted for Sanders in the primaries because i thought he had the best chance of winning the election, same as with Obama in 2008
― ciderpress, Monday, 14 November 2016 20:01 (seven years ago) link
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger),
I'm not sure I can have this argument again.
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 14 November 2016 20:01 (seven years ago) link
xxpost The election was cult of personality vs. cult of no personality. As warm and funny as many close to Clinton claim she is, none of that has ever come across in her public persona.
And not to say that Trump isn't a scumbag (or douchebag or any other type of disreputable bag), but "bragging about sexual assault" struck me as left-wing overreach (no pun intended), the kind of thing that fires up the right. He was talking about the perks of celebrity, that women give men — even ratty 70-year-olds — sexual consent they wouldn't give ordinary people. I mean, Ron Wood just fathered twins for fuck's sake!
― dinnerboat, Monday, 14 November 2016 20:02 (seven years ago) link
GOP hates infrastructure projects, that isn't going to happen― Οὖτις, Monday, November 14, 2016 2:40 PM (four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― Οὖτις, Monday, November 14, 2016 2:40 PM (four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
This means they're definitely going to happen right
― badg, Monday, 14 November 2016 20:03 (seven years ago) link
― and this section is called boner (Phil D.), Monday, November 14, 2016 2:50 PM (twelve minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Seriously? The current treasury secretary is the former COO of Citigroup
― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Monday, 14 November 2016 20:04 (seven years ago) link
sorry, of a Citigroup subsidiary
― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Monday, 14 November 2016 20:05 (seven years ago) link