Mourning in America - Trump Year One: November '16 to

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i contain multitudes, d40

my nose is a short stubby irish one, i do not look down very far

Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Friday, 11 November 2016 22:15 (seven years ago) link

as far as taking electoral politics seriously goes, if i lived in a swing state i would likely vote for Dem prez candidates every time and bitch about it til I FUCKIN' DIED, so count those blessings.

Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Friday, 11 November 2016 22:18 (seven years ago) link

I predict DNC institutional power shenanigans here. Sanders performs strong due to an unexpected upswell of support around the country (unexpected since the media doesn't bother to talk to Average Joe Slob except when a dead body shows up in a river), Hillary wins on bullshit institutional politics (or enough of an appearance of), Bernie supporters boycott the election, and we get ourselves a President Trump/Cruz. I'll throw $20 on that.

― larry appleton, Thursday, February 11, 2016 2:29 AM (nine months ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

btw i totally support what sanders is doing and will vote for him as i've said many times but man i cannot wait to collect that $20

― the thirteenth floorior (Doctor Casino), Thursday, February 11, 2016 2:34 AM (nine months ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

it wasn't just bernie supporters boycotting the election, it was everyone else, too. anyway, i should've bet more money. ahem.

larry appleton, Friday, 11 November 2016 22:51 (seven years ago) link

Politico already backing off of the story. Click the same link now.

Three Word Username, Friday, 11 November 2016 22:53 (seven years ago) link

story from my mom, who canvassed in rural east tennessee for gloria johnson, a democratic state legislator (a great woman, who ultimately lost by about 200 votes)

most of the houses she went to looked like shit. there were a few mcmansions, but most had porches covered in detritus, rusting things, decaying dog shit, etc. - your typical rural combo of drugs and poverty. single mothers holding it down somehow on their skinny shoulders. about half the people weren't home. the other half had mostly never heard of her candidate. and most said they didn't know how they were voting in the presidential election. one woman she spoke to said she wasn't going to vote for the republican candidate for state legislature because he'd done something or other that wasn't beneficial to veterans, and her husband was a veteran. so they had a good 10 minute convo about gloria. it seemed potentially promising. the woman wasn't sure. but then she said to my mom: "now will YOU do me a favor? will you please vote for donald trump?" and she went on to say that trump was so kind, he was such a kind man, and that he never boasted about himself, he was so humble, and that he was going to make this country strong again and that it was so important that my mom vote for him.

now, whaddya think? racist? maybe. probably. but there's something else at work (many things, i guess). a cult-like need for belief in some authority? someone to project every unfulfilled emotional need onto?

there was some talk upthread about facts, and needing to tell vivid, "sticky" truthful stories with enough verve to crowd out the lies that are told. i'm starting to wonder if, in the context of political persuasion, facts matter at all. are important at all. maybe as reference material for the inside-baseball crowd they are. but for this woman, standing in the busted-out screen door frame of this shitty house in east tennessee? i don't know.

illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Friday, 11 November 2016 22:57 (seven years ago) link

my partner tells me one of her phd classmates just split with her boyfriend because the guy admitted to voting for trump in wisconsin (he lied initially, said he left the president blank on his ballot)

geometry-stabilized craft (art), Friday, 11 November 2016 22:58 (seven years ago) link

in the context of political persuasion, facts matter at all.

they don't. we're clearly past that point, rational discourse doesn't matter (if it ever really did). It's about personalities, projection, imagery. that's it.

Οὖτις, Friday, 11 November 2016 23:01 (seven years ago) link

That's what I learned from Ronnie Reagan!

The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 11 November 2016 23:02 (seven years ago) link

right?

Οὖτις, Friday, 11 November 2016 23:04 (seven years ago) link

Trump projected sloppiness and vulgarity though. Idgi

Treeship, Friday, 11 November 2016 23:05 (seven years ago) link

someone posted a meme with Trump trying to figure out how to use google, and it's like, Hey, we get to revive all those old Reagan jokes!

sarahell, Friday, 11 November 2016 23:05 (seven years ago) link

Treesh, no offence, but were you even born when Reagan was president?

sarahell, Friday, 11 November 2016 23:05 (seven years ago) link

I had a long talk with a Jill stein-voting couple last night. everything they told me about Clinton was a kind of facebook status misinformation thing. She doesn't believe in the second amendment. She's killed people. She loves Putin (???). Maybe it's because I avoid fb so stridently, idk, I've just been shocked at how common this is. And there is no counter for it.

Clay, Friday, 11 November 2016 23:07 (seven years ago) link

Trump's personality/ imagery etc is just so fucking disgusting. and i know i'm biased as all hell but this guy is just the most loathsome freakshow.

whatever Reagan ostensibly had that the americans gravitated to is decidedly NOT what Trump is working with

xxposts yep

acerbic (sic)s (will), Friday, 11 November 2016 23:07 (seven years ago) link

idk, I was born in the Carter administration and the level of the-sky-is-green in Tracer's story is hard for me to wrap my mind around. 'Cult of personality' doesn't make sense when someone believes in Bizarro Trump

rob, Friday, 11 November 2016 23:07 (seven years ago) link

like how are you aware of Trump's existence at all and believe "he never boasted about himself"

rob, Friday, 11 November 2016 23:08 (seven years ago) link

Reagan believed trees produce air pollution and said it over and over again. If contradicted, he'd laugh, do that shrug thing at which he became an expert, and change the subject.

I can keep going.

The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 11 November 2016 23:09 (seven years ago) link

btw this segment has some gross establishment twaddle but it's worth watching. I'm happy Michael Moore got to say terrible things about Trump on the air.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_rk5rp499Q

The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 11 November 2016 23:11 (seven years ago) link

Have been teetering on the brink of total despair all day, because I think this willful ignorance is probably unfixable. Many of the things his supporters hammered were either conspiracy theories, made-up or non sequiturs (like Anthony Weiner) that lead to a certain cry that Clinton was guilty of ... something. At the same time, Trump's demerits were totally apparent, but his supporters did not recognize them. My wife helped start a Facebook page, intentionally designed to be nonpartisan, to allow kids to send letters to Trump about what they hope he does or does not do. One kid asked, in addition to more hopeful stuff, that he please not tear the country apart, and someone on the group freaked out at such incendiary, hateful language. About a guy who literally wants to build a wall between us and Mexico, kick millions of people out and prevent millions more from coming in, not to mention all the other stuff he said. How could this kid be so hurtful? she asked. Where did the child get such terrible ideas about the new president?

Yes, where.

Josh in Chicago, Friday, 11 November 2016 23:11 (seven years ago) link

Excerpt from Milton Mayer's They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (outstanding book, have been re-reading it lately).

"What no one seemed to notice," said a colleague of mine, a philologist, "was the ever widening gap, after 1933, between the government and the people. Just think how very wide this gap was to begin with, here in Germany. And it became always wider. You know, it doesn’t make people close to their government to be told that this is a people’s government, a true democracy, or to be enrolled in civilian defense, or even to vote. All this has little, really nothing, to do with knowing one is governing.

"What happened here was the gradual habituation of the people, little by little, to being governed by surprise; to receiving decisions deliberated in secret; to believing that the situation was so complicated that the government had to act on information which the people could not understand, or so dangerous that, even if the people could not understand it, it could not be released because of national security. And their sense of identification with Hitler, their trust in him, made it easier to widen this gap and reassured those who would otherwise have worried about it.

"This separation of government from people, this widening of the gap, took place so gradually and so insensibly, each step disguised (perhaps not even intentionally) as a temporary emergency measure or associated with true patriotic allegiance or with real social purposes. And all the crises and reforms (real reforms, too) so occupied the people that they did not see the slow motion underneath, of the whole process of government growing remoter and remoter.

"You will understand me when I say that my Middle High German was my life. It was all I cared about. I was a scholar, a specialist. Then, suddenly, I was plunged into all the new activity, as the university was drawn into the new situation; meetings, conferences, interviews, ceremonies, and, above all, papers to be filled out, reports, bibliographies, lists, questionnaires. And on top of that were the demands in the community, the things in which one had to, was ‘expected to’ participate that had not been there or had not been important before. It was all rigmarole, of course, but it consumed all one’s energies, coming on top of the work one really wanted to do. You can see how easy it was, then, not to think about fundamental things. One had no time."

"Those," I said, "are the words of my friend the baker. ‘One had no time to think. There was so much going on.’"

"Your friend the baker was right," said my colleague. "The dictatorship, and the whole process of its coming into being, was above all diverting. It provided an excuse not to think for people who did not want to think anyway. I do not speak of your ‘little men,’ your baker and so on; I speak of my colleagues and myself, learned men, mind you. Most of us did not want to think about fundamental things and never had. There was no need to. Nazism gave us some dreadful, fundamental things to think about—we were decent people—and kept us so busy with continuous changes and ‘crises’ and so fascinated, yes, fascinated, by the machinations of the ‘national enemies,’ without and within, that we had no time to think about these dreadful things that were growing, little by little, all around us. Unconsciously, I suppose, we were grateful. Who wants to think?

"To live in this process is absolutely not to be able to notice it—please try to believe me—unless one has a much greater degree of political awareness, acuity, than most of us had ever had occasion to develop. Each step was so small, so inconsequential, so well explained or, on occasion, ‘regretted,’ that, unless one were detached from the whole process from the beginning, unless one understood what the whole thing was in principle, what all these ‘little measures’ that no ‘patriotic German’ could resent must some day lead to, one no more saw it developing from day to day than a farmer in his field sees the corn growing. One day it is over his head.

...

"You see," my colleague went on, "one doesn’t see exactly where or how to move. Believe me, this is true. Each act, each occasion, is worse than the last, but only a little worse. You wait for the next and the next. You wait for one great shocking occasion, thinking that others, when such a shock comes, will join with you in resisting somehow. You don’t want to act, or even talk, alone; you don’t want to ‘go out of your way to make trouble.’ Why not?—Well, you are not in the habit of doing it. And it is not just fear, fear of standing alone, that restrains you; it is also genuine uncertainty.

"Uncertainty is a very important factor, and, instead of decreasing as time goes on, it grows. Outside, in the streets, in the general community, ‘everyone’ is happy. One hears no protest, and certainly sees none. You know, in France or Italy there would be slogans against the government painted on walls and fences; in Germany, outside the great cities, perhaps, there is not even this. In the university community, in your own community, you speak privately to your colleagues, some of whom certainly feel as you do; but what do they say? They say, ‘It’s not so bad’ or ‘You’re seeing things’ or ‘You’re an alarmist.’

"And you are an alarmist. You are saying that this must lead to this, and you can’t prove it. These are the beginnings, yes; but how do you know for sure when you don’t know the end, and how do you know, or even surmise, the end? On the one hand, your enemies, the law, the regime, the Party, intimidate you. On the other, your colleagues pooh-pooh you as pessimistic or even neurotic. You are left with your close friends, who are, naturally, people who have always thought as you have.

"But your friends are fewer now. Some have drifted off somewhere or submerged themselves in their work. You no longer see as many as you did at meetings or gatherings. Informal groups become smaller; attendance drops off in little organizations, and the organizations themselves wither. Now, in small gatherings of your oldest friends, you feel that you are talking to yourselves, that you are isolated from the reality of things. This weakens your confidence still further and serves as a further deterrent to—to what? It is clearer all the time that, if you are going to do anything, you must make an occasion to do it, and then you are obviously a troublemaker. So you wait, and you wait.

"But the one great shocking occasion, when tens or hundreds or thousands will join with you, never comes. That’s the difficulty. If the last and worst act of the whole regime had come immediately after the first and smallest, thousands, yes, millions would have been sufficiently shocked—if, let us say, the gassing of the Jews in ’43 had come immediately after the ‘German Firm’ stickers on the windows of non-Jewish shops in ’33. But of course this isn’t the way it happens. In between come all the hundreds of little steps, some of them imperceptible, each of them preparing you not to be shocked by the next. Step C is not so much worse than Step B, and, if you did not make a stand at Step B, why should you at Step C? And so on to Step D.

"And one day, too late, your principles, if you were ever sensible of them, all rush in upon you. The burden of self-deception has grown too heavy, and some minor incident, in my case my little boy, hardly more than a baby, saying ‘Jewish swine,’ collapses it all at once, and you see that everything, everything, has changed and changed completely under your nose. The world you live in—your nation, your people—is not the world you were born in at all. The forms are all there, all untouched, all reassuring, the houses, the shops, the jobs, the mealtimes, the visits, the concerts, the cinema, the holidays. But the spirit, which you never noticed because you made the lifelong mistake of identifying it with the forms, is changed. Now you live in a world of hate and fear, and the people who hate and fear do not even know it themselves; when everyone is transformed, no one is transformed. Now you live in a system which rules without responsibility even to God. The system itself could not have intended this in the beginning, but in order to sustain itself it was compelled to go all the way.

Elvis Telecom, Friday, 11 November 2016 23:12 (seven years ago) link

xp
yeah I know, but isn't this like asking someone why they voted for RR and they say "because he understands that air pollution is created by burning fossil fuels"? idk I'm probably making too big a deal out of that one anecdote

rob, Friday, 11 November 2016 23:13 (seven years ago) link

my dread that trump will turn out to be the antichrist is dissipating somewhat and now I think he's just going to turn out to be your bog standard shithead republican who everyone will learn to hate when he doesn't deliver manufacturing to everyone, and will be done in 4 years.

akm, Friday, 11 November 2016 23:14 (seven years ago) link

he was Authentic

The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 11 November 2016 23:15 (seven years ago) link

Poppy Bush + Chris Farley + a nine-year-old Berlusconi

bad enough

4 years will fuck us

Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Friday, 11 November 2016 23:18 (seven years ago) link

I had a long talk with a Jill stein-voting couple last night. everything they told me about Clinton was a kind of facebook status misinformation thing. She doesn't believe in the second amendment. She's killed people. She loves Putin (???). Maybe it's because I avoid fb so stridently, idk, I've just been shocked at how common this is. And there is no counter for it.

What's so flummoxing to me and so difficult to process is that there were *plenty* of legit criticisms to pin down Clinton, but it was the Above Top Secret narrative that the Greens bought into.
http://www.politico.com/blogs/democratic-debate-milwaukee-2016/2016/02/hillary-clinton-henry-kissinger-219183
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/25/us/politics/25clinton.html
http://www.latimes.com/world/la-fg-clinton-honduras-coup-20160501-story.html

Elvis Telecom, Friday, 11 November 2016 23:19 (seven years ago) link

idk, I was born in the Carter administration and the level of the-sky-is-green in Tracer's story is hard for me to wrap my mind around. 'Cult of personality' doesn't make sense when someone believes in Bizarro Trump

People were the same way about Reagan! My mother voted for Reagan. She didn't tell me until I was older, you know, around the same age one finds out a relative who died when you were a child was probably gay, or that a relative who died before you were born suffered from a serious mental illness.

sarahell, Friday, 11 November 2016 23:20 (seven years ago) link

so frustrated with my parents. my mom recited a laundry list of reasons not to support clinton (basically just a rundown of breitbart/alex jones/fox views). one of those was that "black people got free cell phones from her tax money thanks to Obama". my sister decided to hone in on that one first, and found a factcheck.org article debunking it. my dad then found an article debunking factcheck.org as an organization: http://www.matchdoctor.com/blog_141905/Factcheck_org_--_A_Fraudulent_Fact_Check_Site_Funded_By_Biased_Political_Group.html

. They are biased, politically motivated propaganda Web sites, manned and funded by biased political organizations who set up the sites for the sole purpose of deviously "backing up" the political arguments of those who hold the same views that they do.

...Think about it. Would you rely on any particular Web site to get the "truth?" Anyone honest would tell you that you should NOT rely solely on them to get your facts. You should get them by considering many different and sources, with different points of view and opinions and arrive at what you believe to be the truth by using your own God given senses. Only con artists purport to be the de facto source of truth.

and of course it goes on and on. factcheck.org is partially funded by the Annenburg Foundation, who in turn have ties to...wait for it..BILL AYERS. therefore factcheck.org propaganda.

i don't know how to get anywhere with them. what do you do when they respond to a factchecking website by pointing to an idiotic factbending article hosted by what appears to be the worst dating website of all time? they also think climate change is bunk and that the EPA is a waste of money that should instead go to the military, which particularly hurts coming from them because it's like, what did you think i was doing for the last 7 years? totally pointless work? fuck.

Karl Malone, Friday, 11 November 2016 23:20 (seven years ago) link

but there's something else at work (many things, i guess). a cult-like need for belief in some authority? someone to project every unfulfilled emotional need onto?

The 53% of white women who voted for Trump are simply leaning in to the same toxic, patriarchal, privilege-enforcing system that’s existed for centuries. They think that these white men are going to save them and protect them, and they’re willing to sell out anyone else–but especially Black women–to lock down that protection.

The problem with that, of course, is that the system hates them just as much as it hates everyone else. Donald Trump stated on camera that he takes any woman’s body that he wants. That he wants to “punish” women for controlling their own bodies. He has said in a loud voice that he is not going to protect women. But the women who voted for him have talked themselves into believing that they’re safe, even when they’re told flat out that they aren’t. They think that this is literally a game of Prisoner’s Dilemma. Or a red line system, in which anyone who falls below the red line gets cut, so all they have to do is shove someone else down below them to ensure that they make the cut.

The system as it exists–our financial system, our economy, work culture and policies, social customs, male-female interpersonal relations, education–is hostile to everyone who isn’t a middle class (or higher) educated straight white cisgender man. That means that all the rest of us are simply trying to navigate survival inside this rigged system. The optimal solution to Prisoner’s Dilemma is for both prisoners to protect each other. But for prisoners who have been beaten down by previous encounters with the system, it’s difficult to trust that the other prisoner will protect them, so they act out of self-interest with bad information.

That’s exactly why we can’t play along. We need to detach from what we’ve been conditioned to think is really true, about institutions and about Black women and about ourselves. And we need to work toward choosing other women, Black women, instead of trusting a system that hates us.

http://www.posttrump.help/2016/11/11/a-post-specifically-for-white-women-from-a-white-woman/

If authoritarianism is Romania's ironing board, then (in orbit), Friday, 11 November 2016 23:21 (seven years ago) link

Geez, I remember taking a handful of media literacy/teaching media literacy classes in grad school that focused on youth. They should really have focused/focus on old(er) people.

sarahell, Friday, 11 November 2016 23:22 (seven years ago) link

https://twitter.com/rilaws/status/797207451238105090

CNN drops its coffee cup as Corey Lewandowski's limp slowly turns into a confident stride

Elvis Telecom, Friday, 11 November 2016 23:23 (seven years ago) link

here's the fun thing:

both my parents were teachers. my dad taught a criminal justice course and started a police academy. my mom taught english.

don't mind me, i'll just be over here ripping my hair out

Karl Malone, Friday, 11 November 2016 23:24 (seven years ago) link

in orbit and Elvis (and everyone else) thank you for these things to read. the piece about 1933-43 is particularly harrowing

Karl i feel for you man. my parents are right-on but my in-laws, good lord. it makes my wife feel completely crazy and oddly vulnerable and off-balance.

illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Friday, 11 November 2016 23:28 (seven years ago) link

No one really thought he was going to bring their jobs back come on. He was a vehicle for white revenge by and large.

― Treeship

late to this but the #1 reason my 85-year-old father-in law voted for Trump was specifically because he was against NAFTA and promised to bring jobs back to the rust belt.

but hey, feel free to continue making the same stupid, blame-shifting generalizations that liberals keep making...

sleeve, Friday, 11 November 2016 23:30 (seven years ago) link

Did he tell you how Trump planned to bring jobs back?

Josh in Chicago, Friday, 11 November 2016 23:32 (seven years ago) link

um that's not the point, the point is what people perceived and believed

sleeve, Friday, 11 November 2016 23:33 (seven years ago) link

So does that mean when Trump doesn't deliver they may perceive and believe he has?

Josh in Chicago, Friday, 11 November 2016 23:34 (seven years ago) link

my dread that trump will turn out to be the antichrist is dissipating somewhat and now I think he's just going to turn out to be your bog standard shithead republican who everyone will learn to hate when he doesn't deliver manufacturing to everyone, and will be done in 4 years.

I think this is v true tbh

the Hitler comparisons are a bit wide of the mark - Trump doesn't want to invade Mexico or France or whatever and establish global supremacy, and what's more he doesn't have the energy or wherewithal to even plan how to do that. An (admittedly very dangerous) mixture of corruption and ineptitude is much more likely.

xp

Οὖτις, Friday, 11 November 2016 23:36 (seven years ago) link

xp to Josh

no, I think he is skeptical and worried, and will not hesitate to throw him under the bus when midterms arrive

(he also voted for Eisenhower and JFK, btw, he doesn't toe party lines and I respect that)

sleeve, Friday, 11 November 2016 23:36 (seven years ago) link

I'm finding that people over the age of 60 seem to have a very difficult time telling what's real and what isn't on the internet.

akm, Friday, 11 November 2016 23:36 (seven years ago) link

Just want to add that almost everyone I know that voted for Trump has told me it was due to Hilary and Obama's rejection of Keystone XL, Obamacare, cracking down on the enforcement of illegal immigration, and the belief that Clinton would make all of these concerns worse. Today this one guy told me, "I'm sick of people saying I'm sexist because I didn't want Clinton to be president because she's a woman, have Condoleezza Rice run I'll happily vote for her."

JacobSanders, Friday, 11 November 2016 23:37 (seven years ago) link

like, they not only believe fake news websites, they also allow themselves to get catfished on a regular basis, and share bogus shopping coupons all over the place

akm, Friday, 11 November 2016 23:37 (seven years ago) link

and then they get awfully upset when they find out something isn't true...my own mother told me she doesn't believe anything from anywhere anymore. my mother in law continually kept talking to some fake dude with an obviously false social media profile even after we showed her proof that he wasn't who he said he was. what the fuck is wrong with old people?

akm, Friday, 11 November 2016 23:39 (seven years ago) link

There's a reason internet scams target the elderly.

What makes Trump scary is no one knows anything. And that's why many have said we should take him at his word. Per the Times:

“There are two options to how you want to anticipate and prepare for a Trump presidency,” Osnos said. “One is to declare that nothing he says is useful and reliable, and we should do nothing. The other is to invest heavily in trying to understand what the history of the presidency tells us.”

“Even if a president doesn’t intend to follow through on a promise,” he continued, “the nature of the presidency compels him to make a good-faith effort to do so because his credibility once in office rests partly on whether he is showing a serious commitment to follow through on the things he does.”

Josh in Chicago, Friday, 11 November 2016 23:39 (seven years ago) link

it's not just 60+ year olds, check the long c&p from an HRC canvasser in Ohio upthread for a vivid reminder that even college-educated people in their 30's don't have the time to sort through all this stuff and figure out what's really true.

sleeve, Friday, 11 November 2016 23:40 (seven years ago) link

So the question is, if kicking out Mexicans and Muslims and any other crazy Trump things succeed in making America "great" again to the satisfaction of trump voters, will these people be cool with that? Is that really the price they are willing to pay? If so, then yes, they are every bit the racists they have been painted to be.

Josh in Chicago, Friday, 11 November 2016 23:44 (seven years ago) link

how do we confront racism and sexism if we're not allowed to name it?

the late great, Friday, 11 November 2016 23:47 (seven years ago) link

Kick in the crotch?

Josh in Chicago, Friday, 11 November 2016 23:48 (seven years ago) link

just grab it by the pussy

Οὖτις, Friday, 11 November 2016 23:49 (seven years ago) link

"he says it like it is"
"he says the things that I think but am afraid to say"

these are the classic key phrases of the trump supporter.

but what could these things be that they're proud of him stating bluntly, except for racist things? aren't they afraid to say them because it might sound a little Hitler-y?

Karl Malone, Friday, 11 November 2016 23:50 (seven years ago) link

serious question. i'm as tired as anybody else of the words. i don't like calling people racist or being called a racist either. i get it. it feels shitty. so what do you do when people vote in favor of, say, racial profiling?

the late great, Friday, 11 November 2016 23:50 (seven years ago) link


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