Mourning in America - Trump Year One: November '16 to

My wife just shared this with me, sorry to bring things down even more https://medium.com/@seanokane/day-1-in-trumps-america-9e4d58381001#.e4wy6jvhw

but people who want their blue state to secede don't actually want to improve the lives of the oppressed, they just want to make the problem someone else's responsibility

― electric wight dorkestra (crüt)

so you're saying that california has a responsibility to make america great again?

and I don't consider them to be destroying democracy. democracy needs an intelligent citizenry. we do not have one atm.

― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger)

"intelligence" is not a good word to use here. voting for trump is a basic moral failure.

it is a good reason, if the alternatives are eventually dieing in a nuclear holocaust or witnessing this country turn into a fascist police state.
people saying all these folks will "show up" for democrats in the future dismiss the likelihood that trump will sign (and the supreme court will approve) all manner of vote-suppressing measures.

― wizzz! (amateurist)

i'm not a mental health professional, but if you're saying it's better to die in despair than to live in fear, i'm not super on board with that. i'm not counting on any trump voters "showing up" for democrats, but we will be able to get a lot more done if we stand up instead of hiding. you may not be able to do that right now, but at least maybe see if you can work towards it as a goal.

"I have lived in autocracies most of my life, and have spent much of my career writing about Vladimir Putin’s Russia. I have learned a few rules for surviving in an autocracy and salvaging your sanity and self-respect. It might be worth considering them now:" - http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2016/11/10/trump-election-autocracy-rules-for-survival/

"intelligence" is not a good word to use here. voting for trump is a basic moral failure.

I don't think the majority of Trump voters lack morals. I think they lack the intelligence/critical-thinking skills to either recognize a sociopathic con man, or to comprehend the consequences of electing one (ie I hear many of them saying yes he's awful, but this won't affect his ability to get shit done).

I don't think the majority of Trump voters lack morals. I think they lack the intelligence/critical-thinking skills to either recognize a sociopathic con man, or to comprehend the consequences of electing one (ie I hear many of them saying yes he's awful, but this won't affect his ability to get shit done).

― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger)

i never said that they lacked morals. i know (ok, knew) trump voters. most of them were highly intelligent. they were also to appearances moral. however, they made a decision that was grossly inconsistent with their professed moral principles, and this is the moral failure.

the trump voters i knew were not ignorant of what trump is, of who trump is. many of them loathe him deeply, believe that he is categorically unfit to hold the presidency. and they voted for him anyway.

From Sarah Kendzior, If you are thinking about 2020, or even 2018, you are doing it wrong. This is not normal. Checks and balances will be gone. Laws rewritten.

https://twitter.com/sarahkendzior/status/796869863067308032

so you're saying that california has a responsibility to make america great again?

― xiphoid beetlebum (rushomancy), Thursday, November 10, 2016 7:08 PM (thirty-two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i'm saying that california abandoning this country is a morally indefensible dick move

I think a lot of these dire predictions are possible (and I plan to prepare for them and believe everyone else should too) but these worst case scenario arguments don't seem likely to me atm. Maybe like the NYRB article says I've just been lulled into believing so because of Obama and Clinton and faith in institutions, but my eyes are open and I'm looking for signs and I'm prepared to act on them if I see them. But I don't see how all these doomsday articles are good for my mental/emotional health.

i'm saying that california abandoning this country is a morally indefensible dick move

― qop (crüt)

yes, they should stay and be oppressed along with the rest of us. how selfish of them!

i'm sure they would face no oppression under President of California Peter Thiel

for one thing the majority of americans voted against trump and i don't get the impression that the majority of trump voters voted for him to be a fascist dictator. i think a lot of them thought his rhetoric was mostly for show and that he would behave and if he started doing horrific domestic things i'd like to think that there would be substantial resistance. i don't believe he has co-opted the military which is essential for full domestic repression and though the FBI and police seem to like him I don't have the impression that the police are en masse prepared to start suppressing widespread dissent. i think there will likely be deaths - it won't be the first time in US history that protesters are killed. but what some of these articles are talking about is a level of repression it is very hard for me to imagine.

Nobody posted this yet?

https://www.change.org/p/electoral-college-electors-electoral-college-make-hillary-clinton-president-on-december-19

i think it's idiotic but lots of friends are sharing it on fb

The whole California/Oregon/Washington secession idea is so maddening to me

Especially because it allows Orange County, all of the State of Jefferson idiots and every other racist wackjob region to come right along as well
How is that a good idea?

aside from the fact that secession is ludicrous, cowardly and fuckin STUPID

Of course it's idiotic. The EC is idiotic. The fact that only 24 states have laws binding their electors' votes is idiotic.

Right on: http://media.grubhub.com/media/press-releases/press-release-details/2016/Inclusion-and-Tolerance-in-the-Workplace/default.aspx

state of jefferson votes have *passed* on local ballots in regions not far outside Sacramento
in fact i just checked: ***21*** northern cali counties have declared their intentions to secede

go hang with those nutjobs for a day & see if you still want to secede

I think a lot of these dire predictions are possible (and I plan to prepare for them and believe everyone else should too) but these worst case scenario arguments don't seem likely to me atm. Maybe like the NYRB article says I've just been lulled into believing so because of Obama and Clinton and faith in institutions, but my eyes are open and I'm looking for signs and I'm prepared to act on them if I see them. But I don't see how all these doomsday articles are good for my mental/emotional health.

― Mordy

i agree with you on the likelihood issue, and "don't panic" is as good advice now as it's ever been, but so many unlikely things have happened this year that i'm not going to discount anything on the grounds that it seems unlikely.

i've seen a lot of my friends talking about nuclear apocalypse. to me that seems ludicrous. at the same time, i'm not in a position to argue that it's not going to happen. a man who has amply demonstrated himself to be profoundly emotionally unstable is going to have the legal ability to launch a pre-emptive nuclear attack.

now, i'm not going to worry about it, because what the fuck would be the point? if it happens it happens. our best opportunity to keep it from happening was on tuesday. there are plenty of other things we can and should do.

for me, the value of reading the dire articles (and writing my share of dire stuff) is because humans are extraordinarily resilient creatures. we are just amazingly, amazingly adaptable to all sorts of changes. we may have a couple sleepless nights, but by and large, we roll with them.

i feel like it would be comparatively easy for me to allow trump's america to become a new normal. to bitch and complain about trump as if he were any other shitty politician. to talk about the ground game instead of about beliefs and values.

i'm more afraid of this than i am of anything trump might do.

even if the worst came to pass and trump was our last president because he demolishes US democracy... i still spend more time worrying about my kids living in a post-civilizational scorched wasteland which just got more likely.

http://billmoyers.com/story/farewell-america/

Democracy can’t cope with extremism. Only violence and time can defeat it. The first is unacceptable, the second takes too long. Though Trump is an extremist, I have a feeling that he will be a very popular president and one likely to be re-elected by a substantial margin, no matter what he does or fails to do. That’s because ever since the days of Ronald Reagan, rhetoric has obviated action, speechifying has superseded governing.

Trump was absolutely correct when he bragged that he could shoot someone in the middle of Fifth Avenue and his supporters wouldn’t care. It was a dictator’s ugly vaunt, but one that recognized this election never was about policy or economics or the “right path/wrong path,” or even values. It was about venting. So long as Trump vented their grievances, his all-white supporters didn’t care about anything else. He is smart enough to know that won’t change in the presidency. In fact, it is only likely to intensify. White America, Trump’s America, just wants to hear its anger bellowed. This is one time when the Bully Pulpit will be literal.

Bernie Sanders Can Still Win This Election. Here's How

by neal gabler btw i was momentarily confused at such extreme words coming from moyers himself

there are brief moments when I can cheer up but I'm so depressed, so scared, so sad. my heart goes out to all of you. I love you all. I see no cause for hope anywhere, this is something we can only defend ourselves from, not actively fight for good, just less bad. it's going to be so bad. worse than Reagan 80s.

I'm starting to think I will need to see a therapist. this happened in the middle of a vacation, and it has ruined any possibility of enjoyment. constant anxiety, fear, despair, depression

it's funny bc i feel like i'm arguing against apocalypse itt while i'm arguing for it in the other but the other thing that gives me some comfort is that this entire country has been set up to preserve individual freedoms. it's why we have capitalism and not central planning. it's why we have states and not just a federal govt. it's even why we have stupid things like the 2nd amendment. it wouldn't be an easy task for the most brilliant dictator to take full control of the US and Stalin Trump is not. who is going to let him shut down the internet when people are planning protests? facebook? google? who is going to let him shut down the NYT and the WaPost? he can make life miserable in so many ways but i don't think he can destroy american democracy. i think in 4 years or in 8 years we will have a new president. of course i was also like 110% sure that hillary would win so my predictive powers are for shit.

what i heard from my mother who lives in a very pro-trump town (she is terrified rn) is that everybody thinks he doesn't really mean the things he says

i am looking around and trying to figure out what actions to take. one of the things currently worrying me a lot is actions happening without any real organizing or common goals behind them, that will be exploited by him to consolidate even more power. the a.n.s.w.e.r. coalition is doing protests at the inauguration apparently and if something like the anti-WTO protests happens (i participated in those myself!) there is going to be some kind of crackdown. i am also worried about what if there is a major disaster or especially terrorist attack, remembering how bad things already seemed when bush stole the 2000 election and then after 9/11 the pressure was on everyone to stand behind him and support him no matter what.. including the invasion of iraq

even if you cant make it all the way to Stalin, the mind reels at plausible damage Trump can do domestically with Republican House and Senate, and in foreign policy. it feels like the end of something, to me. not sure what, but were clearly not just going to resume our previous path before this. and it just feels so unnecessary

When I was a child, my parents moved me from state to state and tiny house and apartment trying to find steady work and keep me and my sisters fed and safe. I didn't know things were bad. We ended up in Texas eventually in an actual owned house with a good school. Reagan came along and made our fragile stability less stable.

I don't know what Trump will do, and it's hard to think about the children living like that now.

he can make life miserable in so many ways but i don't think he can destroy american democracy.

more voter suppression laws, stacking the justice system with right wing ideologues.. and worst i really do worry about some kind of unexpected major crisis through which he suspends/ignores the rule of law and the GOP continues to go along with it.. and i mean i worry that if he doesn't get one, he'll create one, tanking the economy, starting another war

even if you cant make it all the way to Stalin, the mind reels at plausible damage Trump can do domestically with Republican House and Senate, and in foreign policy. it feels like the end of something, to me. not sure what, but were clearly not just going to resume our previous path before this. and it just feels so unnecessary

I agree with this 100%. I'm scared and frightened and I feel an immense sense of loss and for nothing. Just emptiness. But I don't want to go crazy - even a somber conservative analysis is bad enough.

I think I am going crazy, like literally as in suffering mental illness. I hope not. but I'm really, deeply terrified

From Sarah Kendzior, If you are thinking about 2020, or even 2018, you are doing it wrong. This is not normal. Checks and balances will be gone. Laws rewritten.

https://twitter.com/sarahkendzior/status/796869863067308032

― mick signals, Thursday, November 10, 2016 7:41 PM (one hour ago)

this woman is a conspiracy theorist and is not to be taken seriously fyi

i'm trying hard to keep perspective, but i really don't even know what that means anymore.

like, let's say an extremist ideologue like Pence (since hey he might be running shit day to day anyway) or even god forbid Cruz had been the nominee and somehow some way slipped up and beat Hillary. i guess at the very least the people who would have supported a guy like know exactly what he 'stands' for, and ostensibly would have had traditional reasons for voting for him. but right now it's just weird and frankly watching "conservative" middle America stand arm & arm with a bunch of internet nihilists and who are equally willing to roll the dice on lunatic scumbag. it just seems like we are done for when 65 year old suburban church deacons with decent jobs are just like "fuck it dunno man he's CRAZY, he could do anything lol #MAGA"

like wtf happened to you, guy? serious question. and you can NOT fucking say "but but Obama.."

*frankly scary

everybody thinks he doesn't really mean the things he says

Then one thing we maybe need to start doing is remind them that he does, he always has, and it is going to be very bad for them, too, not just city slickers and the blacks.

He's on 60 Minutes Sunday, let's see what he says, what tone he takes. If he's the same blustery unsympathetic lack of empathy ass as he was when running even after he had won, I will be even more worried.

Frederik, the election is over, you can cut the crap now. She did not get "bombarded with death threats." A couple of losers left angry messages.
― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), 10. november 2016 16:54 (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

This was from the old thread, but I'm done with this sort of bullshit. We've just seen white supremacy and sexism have it's biggest triumph yet, I'm not gonna let misogynistic harassment and death threats be explained away as 'angry messages' anymore.

Massive TRIGGER WARNING!!! Scroll past this if you don't want to read misogynynistic words and threats of violence. But I need to post a sampling of the hundreds or thousands of messages that Roberta Lange received in the days after Nevada. Each new line is a new voicemail or text message.

Hi Roberta Lange. This is a citizen of the United States of America and I just wanted to let you know that I think people like you should be hung in a public execution to show this world that we won’t stand for this sort of corruption. I don’t know what kind of money they are paying to you, but I don’t know how you sleep at night. You are a sick, twisted piece of shit and I hope you burn for this! You can return my call at xxx-xxx-xxxx. I’d love to go into further detail with you about this, though I am sure you don’t have courage to do so. You cowardless bitch, running off the stage! I hope people find you.
 
You fucking stupid bitch! What the hell are you doing? You’re a fucking corrupt bitch! That is so fucking wrong. You should be ashamed and disgraced. You need to step down from that position because you are bad for America and bad for the Democratic Party. That was fucking bullshit today. You need to step down. You’re a disgrace.
 
Oh Roberta, Roberta, Roberta, you old, old hag. Oh, we watched the whole thing in Nevada. You’re really kinda screwed, lady. Um, yeah. Really stupid. Fuck you.
 
Fuck you, bitch!
 
Roberta, you know thousands of people watched what you did tonight at the convention – if you don’t think that that’s coming back to bite you in the ass, you have got another thing coming.

Hi Roberta, I am pretty sure you’re probably not going to get back to me because you don’t care about the American people, but what you did today, it was corrupt, it was wrong, and the founding fathers of our country would be ashamed of you. You deserve to be in prison, not the chairman for the Democratic Party. Rot in Hell.
 
You’re a cunt. Fuck you!
 
We are having a massive public opposition to your illegal activities. You have demonstrated to be fraudulent and I would pack your bags right now because the shit storm you’ve ensued is coming.

You stupid ass bitch. We’re coming for your ass.

Bitch answer me! How much did the Hilary campaign pay you for that shit? You weren’t a coward yesterday, don’t be one now! Biggest cunt in politics next to Clinton. You’ve just ruined your life!

SHAME ON YOU Roberta Gustave Lange. You are an abomination to the humans race to supress the HUMAN RIGHT to VOTE. May retribution come fully and harshly upon you. I CURSE YOU

Praying to god someone shoots you in the FACE, and blows your democracy-stealing head off!

That's not just a 'couple of losers'. That's horrifying. And that's just a fraction of what she received. And I'm horrified that you're trying to minimize it, man alive. And when I can, I won't let you or anyone minimize this kind of abuse and chicanery.

https://twitter.com/mattyglesias/status/796859453157031936

a little honesty is refreshing

from the NYRB link upthread - but everyone should go read the whole thing

Rule #1: Believe the autocrat. He means what he says. Whenever you find yourself thinking, or hear others claiming, that he is exaggerating, that is our innate tendency to reach for a rationalization. ...

Rule #2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality. Consider the financial markets this week, which, having tanked overnight, rebounded following the Clinton and Obama speeches.

Rule #3: Institutions will not save you. It took Putin a year to take over the Russian media and four years to dismantle its electoral system; the judiciary collapsed unnoticed.

Rule #4: Be outraged. If you follow Rule #1 and believe what the autocrat-elect is saying, you will not be surprised. But in the face of the impulse to normalize, it is essential to maintain one’s capacity for shock.

Rule #5: Don’t make compromises. Like Ted Cruz, who made the journey from calling Trump “utterly amoral” and a “pathological liar” to endorsing him in late September to praising his win as an “amazing victory for the American worker,” Republican politicians have fallen into line.

Rule #6: Remember the future. Nothing lasts forever. Donald Trump certainly will not, and Trumpism, to the extent that it is centered on Trump’s persona, will not either.

Oh also can we abandon Twitter and Reddit completely and just let the alt-right have them? They'll go out of business and get bought by Russians, and nobody will care.

Kendzior is a conspiracy theorist and is not to be taken seriously fyi

Yeah? Do you have sources for that? Not doubting you, I don't know one way or the other.

everybody thinks he doesn't really mean the things he says

Then one thing we maybe need to start doing is remind them that he does, he always has, and it is going to be very bad for them, too, not just city slickers and the blacks.

well, literally none of the people i personally interact with (including what friends i've kept from my conservative hometown) voted for him and they're all varying degrees of horrified now.. only person i know who's happy is one facebook 'friend' who is really a distant acquaintance & is in the military. i spent quite a few weekends in pennsylvania trying to get democrats to turn out and vote against him..

right now i see some "wait and see, the sky isn't falling, we will get through this" lack of urgency plus those who want to organize and take action but lack direction and leadership...

I can't decide what's more ridiculous, that I'm considering signing a change.org petition in the hopes that it helps overturn the electoral college or that the only reason I haven't yet is because I'm afraid that putting my name and address on it will get me put on Trump's enemies list.

i feel like this all happened because from day #1 of obama's first term the GOP leadership decided to obstruct him and stop the government from functioning no matter what. i can see how it resonates in middle america to look at the struggling economy there and poor infrastructure and wages being flat & saying we need change. if only obama had been able to get a big infrastructure and jobs bill done

"If you succeed, we succeed." HELLLL NO

Re: the Oval Office picture of Trump-Obama, it's not so much that he looks terrified (although there's a little of that) but that he looks, for the first time, actually ashamed to be sitting there with Obama. It's a mixture of shame and fear. He looks like a 70 year old boy who's done a bad thing and who's embarrassed that the adult in the room is still being civil towards him.

Of course the shame will only have been temporary as I'm sure he switched as soon as he left the building.

I feel like the greatest immediate mitigating factor is that he and his "people" seem to be very lazy and don't know how to do anything. If leading Dems and career officials remember Rule #5, never forget Rule #5, always stick to Rule #5, then we might live through this.

History implies America will not fall prey to fascism, at least as it has traditionally manifested itself. But if the country was indeed going down the darkest path, what are the first warning signs to look for (other than electing a fascist)? The weakening of the press? Punishing enemies?