Mourning in America - Trump Year One: November '16 to

and I don't consider them to be destroying democracy. democracy needs an intelligent citizenry. we do not have one atm.

s.clover if you really think I'm for real wanting to take away voting rights from anyone you're even more of an idiot than I already thought

― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Thursday, November 10, 2016 5:58 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

maybe don't say you think people shouldn't be allowed to vote if you don't mean it? idk, just thinking aloud here

"democracy needs an intelligent citizenry."

spoken like a true patrician scion of jefferson davis

yeah I forgot about the dipshits like you who take every single thing literally, good lord.

unilateral state secession is illegal, per the supreme court: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_v._White

also a bad idea from a democratic perspective, see lincoln's first inaugural

also morally wrong, because a liberal state with a huge population leaving the union leaves trump and his fellow cretins stronger than ever

otm x3

Can the District of Columbia secede? We're not a state.

but people who want their blue state to secede don't actually want to improve the lives of the oppressed, they just want to make the problem someone else's responsibility

which is why the idea coming from California doesn't surprise me. Who would be president -- Zuckerberg?

if you think your state should be independently governed from the rest of the union go vote for a fucking states'-rights libertarian

It's frustrating, though, because even though we have the hugest population and GDP, our voices matter basically not at all in national elections. In the primaries, we vote so late that it usually doesn't matter. In the general election, we are reliably blue, which means we are basically ignored.

I guess the scary part for the rest of the country would be that if CA left, 55 blue votes would disappear.

if u think president trump would allow secession of any us state without military intervention i think u might need to reevaluate ur premises

I'm fairly sure he'd let states go. "Let'em go. LOSER!"

yeah its the large scale version of running away to canada

And so the real hatred starts and of course it has to be in my home state
http://www.statesman.com/news/local/texas-state-university-police-looking-into-trump-vigilante-fliers/jhWSmmhNxxuTXZaQJiYhNI/

bill fletcher - http://billfletcherjr.com/2016/quick-reflections-november-2016-election/

from last thread

talk me off the ledge folks
― wizzz! (amateurist)
honestly? it's every bit as bad as you say it is. that's no reason to jump.

it is a good reason, if the alternatives are eventually dieing in a nuclear holocaust or witnessing this country turn into a fascist police state.
people saying all these folks will "show up" for democrats in the future dismiss the likelihood that trump will sign (and the supreme court will approve) all manner of vote-suppressing measures.

Yesterday and today the spirit at the office has been higher than usually, everyone happy with Trump's win. Everyone unhappy about getting called racist, sexist, bigots etc. I never talk about my personal political views at work but everyone knows my wife is hispanic and I don't tolerate certain talk around me. I do ask people questions about their own views. I'm rarely even in the office but these last two days I had meetings. Everyone was talking about budgets, expansions, and projects, and I had to speak before executives and these guys from Norway. All I could think about was two hours away my wife is at home crying and afraid, while taking care of our sick daughter. I have felt like a jerk because I didn't want Hilary, but I certainly didn't want Trump, didn't even think Trump was possible. But I do work in regulation of oil and gas and my company is very pleased with our new president(with a certain trepidation). I feel guilty. I feel awful for telling my wife how I don't let racism bother me because I don't give their words power. I've never walked in a her shoes and I do try to understand, but I often fail. I just feel awful, guilty and want to cry.

<3 u Jacob

I'd really like to think the enormity and magnitude of the job will make a difference on the man. I mean, this makes running a billion dollar casino/real estate empire look like kids' play (which, let's be fair, a casino/real estate empire sort of is). We're talking hundreds of millions of lives, trillions of dollars, vast global repercussions for mistakes and victories alike. Every president talks about those facts settling in. What will it mean to selfish, narcissistic person for whom all that stuff has thus far been more or less meaningless? For someone whose idea of power has been like the nouveau riche's idea of wealth? Really curious about this. Also wondering if some of his more cartoonish, incompetent appointments will get laughed out of DC like Harriet Miers.

Beyond that, what will security be like at his countless properties? Will they have to be protected 24/7? What about employees there? What about his kids and their respective hand me down empires? What about his ex-wives and their families? Vacation properties? And, thinking ahead a bit, if a ghoul like Giuliani becomes AG, who hires the special prosecutor?

My mom, she is worried he will have a heart attack in office. How heavy was peak Bubba? And he was a lot younger then than Trump is now.

ffs, Jacob, man, this shit should not be happening.

Makes so angry the misery this worthless cunt Trump is ALREADY causing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmdN1F4Uwv0

My wife just shared this with me, sorry to bring things down even more https://medium.com/@seanokane/day-1-in-trumps-america-9e4d58381001#.e4wy6jvhw

but people who want their blue state to secede don't actually want to improve the lives of the oppressed, they just want to make the problem someone else's responsibility

― electric wight dorkestra (crüt)

so you're saying that california has a responsibility to make america great again?

and I don't consider them to be destroying democracy. democracy needs an intelligent citizenry. we do not have one atm.

― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger)

"intelligence" is not a good word to use here. voting for trump is a basic moral failure.

it is a good reason, if the alternatives are eventually dieing in a nuclear holocaust or witnessing this country turn into a fascist police state.
people saying all these folks will "show up" for democrats in the future dismiss the likelihood that trump will sign (and the supreme court will approve) all manner of vote-suppressing measures.

― wizzz! (amateurist)

i'm not a mental health professional, but if you're saying it's better to die in despair than to live in fear, i'm not super on board with that. i'm not counting on any trump voters "showing up" for democrats, but we will be able to get a lot more done if we stand up instead of hiding. you may not be able to do that right now, but at least maybe see if you can work towards it as a goal.

"I have lived in autocracies most of my life, and have spent much of my career writing about Vladimir Putin’s Russia. I have learned a few rules for surviving in an autocracy and salvaging your sanity and self-respect. It might be worth considering them now:" - http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2016/11/10/trump-election-autocracy-rules-for-survival/

"intelligence" is not a good word to use here. voting for trump is a basic moral failure.

I don't think the majority of Trump voters lack morals. I think they lack the intelligence/critical-thinking skills to either recognize a sociopathic con man, or to comprehend the consequences of electing one (ie I hear many of them saying yes he's awful, but this won't affect his ability to get shit done).

I don't think the majority of Trump voters lack morals. I think they lack the intelligence/critical-thinking skills to either recognize a sociopathic con man, or to comprehend the consequences of electing one (ie I hear many of them saying yes he's awful, but this won't affect his ability to get shit done).

― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger)

i never said that they lacked morals. i know (ok, knew) trump voters. most of them were highly intelligent. they were also to appearances moral. however, they made a decision that was grossly inconsistent with their professed moral principles, and this is the moral failure.

the trump voters i knew were not ignorant of what trump is, of who trump is. many of them loathe him deeply, believe that he is categorically unfit to hold the presidency. and they voted for him anyway.

From Sarah Kendzior, If you are thinking about 2020, or even 2018, you are doing it wrong. This is not normal. Checks and balances will be gone. Laws rewritten.

https://twitter.com/sarahkendzior/status/796869863067308032

so you're saying that california has a responsibility to make america great again?

― xiphoid beetlebum (rushomancy), Thursday, November 10, 2016 7:08 PM (thirty-two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i'm saying that california abandoning this country is a morally indefensible dick move

I think a lot of these dire predictions are possible (and I plan to prepare for them and believe everyone else should too) but these worst case scenario arguments don't seem likely to me atm. Maybe like the NYRB article says I've just been lulled into believing so because of Obama and Clinton and faith in institutions, but my eyes are open and I'm looking for signs and I'm prepared to act on them if I see them. But I don't see how all these doomsday articles are good for my mental/emotional health.

i'm saying that california abandoning this country is a morally indefensible dick move

― qop (crüt)

yes, they should stay and be oppressed along with the rest of us. how selfish of them!

i'm sure they would face no oppression under President of California Peter Thiel

for one thing the majority of americans voted against trump and i don't get the impression that the majority of trump voters voted for him to be a fascist dictator. i think a lot of them thought his rhetoric was mostly for show and that he would behave and if he started doing horrific domestic things i'd like to think that there would be substantial resistance. i don't believe he has co-opted the military which is essential for full domestic repression and though the FBI and police seem to like him I don't have the impression that the police are en masse prepared to start suppressing widespread dissent. i think there will likely be deaths - it won't be the first time in US history that protesters are killed. but what some of these articles are talking about is a level of repression it is very hard for me to imagine.

Nobody posted this yet?

https://www.change.org/p/electoral-college-electors-electoral-college-make-hillary-clinton-president-on-december-19

i think it's idiotic but lots of friends are sharing it on fb

The whole California/Oregon/Washington secession idea is so maddening to me

Especially because it allows Orange County, all of the State of Jefferson idiots and every other racist wackjob region to come right along as well
How is that a good idea?

aside from the fact that secession is ludicrous, cowardly and fuckin STUPID

Of course it's idiotic. The EC is idiotic. The fact that only 24 states have laws binding their electors' votes is idiotic.

Right on: http://media.grubhub.com/media/press-releases/press-release-details/2016/Inclusion-and-Tolerance-in-the-Workplace/default.aspx

state of jefferson votes have *passed* on local ballots in regions not far outside Sacramento
in fact i just checked: ***21*** northern cali counties have declared their intentions to secede

go hang with those nutjobs for a day & see if you still want to secede

I think a lot of these dire predictions are possible (and I plan to prepare for them and believe everyone else should too) but these worst case scenario arguments don't seem likely to me atm. Maybe like the NYRB article says I've just been lulled into believing so because of Obama and Clinton and faith in institutions, but my eyes are open and I'm looking for signs and I'm prepared to act on them if I see them. But I don't see how all these doomsday articles are good for my mental/emotional health.

― Mordy

i agree with you on the likelihood issue, and "don't panic" is as good advice now as it's ever been, but so many unlikely things have happened this year that i'm not going to discount anything on the grounds that it seems unlikely.

i've seen a lot of my friends talking about nuclear apocalypse. to me that seems ludicrous. at the same time, i'm not in a position to argue that it's not going to happen. a man who has amply demonstrated himself to be profoundly emotionally unstable is going to have the legal ability to launch a pre-emptive nuclear attack.

now, i'm not going to worry about it, because what the fuck would be the point? if it happens it happens. our best opportunity to keep it from happening was on tuesday. there are plenty of other things we can and should do.

for me, the value of reading the dire articles (and writing my share of dire stuff) is because humans are extraordinarily resilient creatures. we are just amazingly, amazingly adaptable to all sorts of changes. we may have a couple sleepless nights, but by and large, we roll with them.

i feel like it would be comparatively easy for me to allow trump's america to become a new normal. to bitch and complain about trump as if he were any other shitty politician. to talk about the ground game instead of about beliefs and values.

i'm more afraid of this than i am of anything trump might do.

even if the worst came to pass and trump was our last president because he demolishes US democracy... i still spend more time worrying about my kids living in a post-civilizational scorched wasteland which just got more likely.

http://billmoyers.com/story/farewell-america/

Democracy can’t cope with extremism. Only violence and time can defeat it. The first is unacceptable, the second takes too long. Though Trump is an extremist, I have a feeling that he will be a very popular president and one likely to be re-elected by a substantial margin, no matter what he does or fails to do. That’s because ever since the days of Ronald Reagan, rhetoric has obviated action, speechifying has superseded governing.

Trump was absolutely correct when he bragged that he could shoot someone in the middle of Fifth Avenue and his supporters wouldn’t care. It was a dictator’s ugly vaunt, but one that recognized this election never was about policy or economics or the “right path/wrong path,” or even values. It was about venting. So long as Trump vented their grievances, his all-white supporters didn’t care about anything else. He is smart enough to know that won’t change in the presidency. In fact, it is only likely to intensify. White America, Trump’s America, just wants to hear its anger bellowed. This is one time when the Bully Pulpit will be literal.

Bernie Sanders Can Still Win This Election. Here's How

by neal gabler btw i was momentarily confused at such extreme words coming from moyers himself

there are brief moments when I can cheer up but I'm so depressed, so scared, so sad. my heart goes out to all of you. I love you all. I see no cause for hope anywhere, this is something we can only defend ourselves from, not actively fight for good, just less bad. it's going to be so bad. worse than Reagan 80s.

I'm starting to think I will need to see a therapist. this happened in the middle of a vacation, and it has ruined any possibility of enjoyment. constant anxiety, fear, despair, depression

it's funny bc i feel like i'm arguing against apocalypse itt while i'm arguing for it in the other but the other thing that gives me some comfort is that this entire country has been set up to preserve individual freedoms. it's why we have capitalism and not central planning. it's why we have states and not just a federal govt. it's even why we have stupid things like the 2nd amendment. it wouldn't be an easy task for the most brilliant dictator to take full control of the US and Stalin Trump is not. who is going to let him shut down the internet when people are planning protests? facebook? google? who is going to let him shut down the NYT and the WaPost? he can make life miserable in so many ways but i don't think he can destroy american democracy. i think in 4 years or in 8 years we will have a new president. of course i was also like 110% sure that hillary would win so my predictive powers are for shit.