Hüsker Dü Classic or Dud?

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skrup af
og la´ husker du være...
ignorante svin...
man skulle ikke tro at i kunne finde ud af andet end at knebbe jeres mor

strapped, Tuesday, 19 November 2002 23:43 (twenty-one years ago) link

best song: It's Not Funny Any More
worst song: Turn On The News

Keith McD (Keith McD), Wednesday, 20 November 2002 01:17 (twenty-one years ago) link

OK, full disclosure time: I've always thought that Husker Du were the most overrated band of the 80s. Bought the albums, saw the show (which was actually OK) at an old hotel in downtown L.A. that was hosting punk gigs for a couple of months (this was after New Day Rising was released), but never quite understood what the fuss was about. Couple of good songs recorded well, but never quite the "underground legend" that folks now are claiming. Of course I feel the same way about The Pixies too.

Xibalba (xibalba), Wednesday, 20 November 2002 02:48 (twenty-one years ago) link

Like the best work of the Buzzcocks, Zen Arcade was one of the few records of its time to really succeed at fusing pop and punk without sacrificing the core intensity of the latter. Of course Husker Du did this with their own regional flair, and added other elements of feverish experimentation, punctuated by surreal interludes. The album is usually described as a "concept" album, even though the only uniting forces are that most of the lyrics deal with crisis both of a personal and of a political nature, and that there is a sustained maniacal sense of "Do or Die," which seems at once both primal and paranoid. While not as heavy as Black Flag, as intelligent as the Minutemen, or as strange as the Meat Puppets; Husker Du took elements from each of their label mates while retaining their own signature. Hart and Mould each knew how to use their individual strengths as vocalists and traded duties accordingly (although there are exceptions, such as when Hart tried to scream or when Mould tried to sing).

Where Zen Arcade threatens to veer off the road at any second, New Day Rising never strays an inch off course. Like a longer, happier, yet more raging Metal Circus...I see this album as being the fulcrum for all that came before and all that would come after in their recorded output. Featuring their most consistently catchy songwriting, as well as incredibly pointed production, the band is perfectly in control no matter how noisy they get. Before New Day Rising, the band was never this focused. From this point on, the songs would slowly get quieter (I miss Spot) and weaker until the band faded away.

Despite the fun of Everything Falls Apart, and the bewildering thrash of Land Speed Record...the band's early work was nothing too special (although personally I prefer Rhino's re-release of Everything Falls Apart (and more) to their other releases). Also, although there were hints of this in Flip Your Wig, their move to a major label had an effect on their music akin to a scary drunk sobering up. While there are still some bright moments, overall I find this work embarrasing.

Still, their core output from 1983-1985 paved the way for a new breed of American rock music, including the Replacements, the Pixies (note Frank Black's propensity to (ab)use his voice for drama and noise within the context of a Pop structure), etc. Nirvana started out sounding more like the Melvins, but took elements from other Northwest rock groups (Green River/Mudhoney), whose regional styles were often depressive introspective and/or flippant sexual take-offs of the earnest catharsis that bands like Husker Du immersed themselves in. So while the lineage may not be direct, Nirvana might not have sounded the way they did without Husker Du. The book "Route 666: On the Road to Nirvana" does a good job of looking at these issues.

So overall, and especially in the context of what was going on around them musically, Husker Du are a classic in my book. Though I would be willing to consider the possibility that their existance was happenstance, and oweing to a fated zeitgeist more than individual inspiration/ability...

Something similar could be said of most of those profiled in Azzerad's book, "Our Band Could Be Your Life."

Ryan McKay, Wednesday, 20 November 2002 03:28 (twenty-one years ago) link

Suggested mix CD:

Eight Miles High
In a Free Land
Everything Falls Apart
Diane
Something I Learned Today
The Girl Who Lives on Heaven Hill
Green Eyes
Broken Home, Broken Heart
Books About UFOs
What's Going On?
Don't Want to Know If You Are Lonely
Monday Will Never Be the Same
Whatever
Games
One Step at a Time
Pink Turns to Blue
New Day Rising
The Biggest Lie
Terms of Psychic Warfare
Chartered Trips
These Important Years
Celebrated Summer
Divide and Conquer
You Can Live at Home

Pete Scholtes, Wednesday, 20 November 2002 05:23 (twenty-one years ago) link

To me, whether or not Husker influenced the Pixies is about as interesting a question as whether or not the Beatles influenced the Apples in Stereo. The Pixies had moments, but their entire recorded output isn't worth 30 seconds of "Girl Who Lives on Heaven Hill."

I really do think if they didn't look like truck drivers, there would be no question about their place in the canon.

Pete Scholtes, Wednesday, 20 November 2002 05:51 (twenty-one years ago) link

their entire recorded output isn't worth 30 seconds of "Girl Who Lives on Heaven Hill."

Not from where I sit.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 20 November 2002 05:56 (twenty-one years ago) link

P.S. "The Biggest Lie" might well be about the closet. Pansy Division cover it:

You think you've made it to the top because people know your name,
It's still the same
Your daydreams aren't forever, better get your shit together
For a new game

Back to your day job
Back to your girlfriend
Back to your hometown
The biggest lie

Passing harsher judgement, but you brought it on yourself
By being you
You trade your work for no success, you tried to be a hero
But you end up nothing

Pete Scholtes, Wednesday, 20 November 2002 05:59 (twenty-one years ago) link

[I]their entire recorded output isn't worth 30 seconds of "Girl Who Lives on Heaven Hill."[/I]

I say this as someone who has done his share of obsessing over the Pixies, made compilation tapes, etc. Only one reporter's opinion, mind you. Speaking of, Minutemen still edge out all of the above in my book...

Pete Scholtes, Wednesday, 20 November 2002 06:06 (twenty-one years ago) link

man skulle ikke tro at i kunne finde ud af andet end at knebbe jeres mor

I don't see how quoting Missy helps your case.

Tom (Groke), Wednesday, 20 November 2002 09:44 (twenty-one years ago) link

Post Zen-Arcade something horrible happened to the sound - no bass and a horrible drum sound. For me, this sucks all the power out of NDR,FYW and CAG, leaving them unlistenable. Warehouse is an improvement, but they *could* have been so much better.

Dr. C (Dr. C), Wednesday, 20 November 2002 09:47 (twenty-one years ago) link

Brad, don't listen to any doubters here. Husker Du are probably the closest thing America got to The Beatles in terms of the sheer prolific brilliance over a short timeframe. I envy you hearing those all those Du classics for the first time. They don't wear off however and still give me the goosebumps 13 years on from my initial exposure. My faveourite would be "Find Me" from Flip You Wig -- that guitar break is so immense. "Girl Who Lives ..." is a bolt of lightning of a rock song.

David Gunnip, Wednesday, 20 November 2002 09:49 (twenty-one years ago) link

ryan is a PKD fan as well. good for him.

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Wednesday, 20 November 2002 09:53 (twenty-one years ago) link


I agree with Dr C. about the sound of some of the albums (FYW is especially bad), but I always put that down to them being early-ish examples of cd transfers (which commonly suffer from a lack of bass, and obtrusive/tinny percusion sounds) (I still don't think they've been remastered yet). Though I've never heard the original vinyl so I couldn't say for sure.

andy, Wednesday, 20 November 2002 10:53 (twenty-one years ago) link

I wouldn't quite agree that it makes the records unlistenable, but the drum production on NDR and FYW is really, really dreadful.

RickyT (RickyT), Wednesday, 20 November 2002 10:54 (twenty-one years ago) link

And I own both on vinyl as well.

RickyT (RickyT), Wednesday, 20 November 2002 10:54 (twenty-one years ago) link

Oh, god, I imagine the CDs are unlistenable. But that's the case with any SST album that hasn't been remastered by another company with new tech. I think the record albums sound pretty good up through Flip Your Wig, though...

Pete Scholtes, Wednesday, 20 November 2002 11:28 (twenty-one years ago) link

Bought Zen Arcade,New Day Rising and Flip You Wig.
I think all 3 are fantastic. They seem to get poppier as they go along. I definitely think theyre equally as good as The Pixies and other canonised bands. The influences on american indie rock can be seen.
Apparently Steve Albini is a huge fan of the even earlier stuff. So i may check out metal Circus when i get paid at the end of the month.
Thanks to everyone who helped.

brad, Wednesday, 20 November 2002 19:15 (twenty-one years ago) link

Watch out, move outta the way - give the cranky bastard some room.

I'm tempted to say that Husker Du : alt.indie.rock :: Sex Pistols : punk rock - they've been swallowed up and absorbed and regurgitated to such a degree that their own impact, musically, has petered out to a big ol' pfffft of whatever, while claims can be made of other groups (hello, Buzzcocks) having a similar effect. That said, I can't think of any DIRECT antecedent that is completely beholden to the Du - there was a cool line in the Spin Alt Guide about Nirvana mixing the Husker's "Whatever" with the Replacement's "Nevermind", but, other than that, it seems that any Husker influence attributed to a rock groop is more a result of Husker Du doing a similar guitar rock thing first and folks simply accepting Husker's influence as a dogmatic given.

Like, shit, if they're these doods playing 3-to-4-chord pop songs w/ all this distortion & screaming that sound more like the Beatles or some 60s hippie shit than that girl group doowop stuff Joey Ramone jones'd, then it's GOTTA be because of Husker Du, yeah?

It's been a while since Husker Du popped my cherry - we used to be inseperable, but I don't go hang out with them much anymore. It's crass to say, but they served their purpose. Yeah, once in a while, I get nostalgic, and I throw on one of the Big Three records, but I enjoy them more if I try to hear what I heard back then (the "power", the emotion, the soft & prickly feedback) than listening to them in the now - current timeframe listening has me focusing on stupid shit like the crappy drum sounds, or the cloying lyrics, or all that other nonsense. Nowadays, I like Husker's failures (cf. _Everything Falls Apart_, "...Skin a Cat", "The Baby Song") more than their successes (cf. the "good" stuff).

David R. (popshots75`), Wednesday, 20 November 2002 20:32 (twenty-one years ago) link

two months pass...
"I really do think if they didn't look like truck drivers, there would be no question about their place in the canon."

Outside of the music, one of the things that I could relate about bands such as Husker Du, The Minutemen & The Replacements at the time was that they looked like people in your neighborhood. They sure as hell didn't look as silly as Motley Crue or Bon Jovi or some other popular crap when I was in high school.


earlnash, Friday, 14 February 2003 18:39 (twenty-one years ago) link

"Funny thing was, the guy with the moustache was the gayest looking one!"

And his name was Frank Beard! Oh wait a minute, what am I saying...

Paula G., Friday, 14 February 2003 18:53 (twenty-one years ago) link

three weeks pass...
Classic. New Day Rising and Zen Arcade are pulverizing emotional beauty. Candy Apple Grey is also superb, and everything they did is great with Warehouse coming in last. Solo Mould and Sugar left me a bit cold, but I liked Grant Hart's band Nova Mob a lot.

John Bullabaugh (John Bullabaugh), Sunday, 9 March 2003 02:37 (twenty-one years ago) link

two years pass...
Husker Du sounds great right about now. Wow, maybe I've finally really grown into this band. They don't depress me anymore.

Although, something interesting: if any band ever equalled nostalgia without ever even having heard them before, it was definitely Husker Du. They just sound nostalgiac. How interesting that their name comes from an old (Norwegian?) boardgame that means "Do you remember?" (The Wikipedia article was a great read and talks about how they came up with the name. Also in the article, there's a cute song described by the then-to-be singer of Semisonic about his old girlfriend and the band they used to see together: "Remember when you held my hand you used to say I love them so much/Lonely when I hear the band/Do you remember, do you recall?" That this is an homage to Hüsker Dü is confirmed by the album's liner notes, which have the words "do you remember? dü you recall?" written across them in large letters.)

Probably the first and best emo band. Wow, Sebadoh is indebted to them, I think. Just realized that. Husker Du were less whiney even when they were whining, though. They sounded pretty damn macho for non-macho psychedelic hardcore.

Hüsker of The Corn, Saturday, 28 January 2006 13:33 (eighteen years ago) link

LOL @ thread title
How about : Breathing, Eating & Staying Alive : Classic or Dud ? or something

blunt (blunt), Saturday, 28 January 2006 14:34 (eighteen years ago) link

Haters upthread begone. Blunt OTM.

Amazing how I can still get such a visceral reaction by someone suggesting Husker Du aren't for the ages, even years after I listened to them regularly.

Mould was hit or miss after the Du (Workbook + Cooper Blue, yes; Black Sheets of Rain + FU:EL, no) as the lyrics got even sappier and the production more polished, but I'd take Flip Your Wig through Warehouse with me anywhere.

Mitya (mitya), Saturday, 28 January 2006 14:38 (eighteen years ago) link

I would say dud, regardless of whether you are speaking of the overrated Minneapolis band from the 80s or the Norwegian nostalgia series that used to run on Norwegian TV in the 70s and 80s, aimed at an audience consisting of people born around 1890-1910.

Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Saturday, 28 January 2006 17:09 (eighteen years ago) link

They can't possibly be overrated if they've influenced as many bands as they have, which mostly went on to become big influences in their own right. And not only do bands claim them as highly influential, but it is also easily discernable in their sounds and "the sound" that defined post-punk indie rock.

Hüsker of The Corn, Saturday, 28 January 2006 17:19 (eighteen years ago) link

Influence in itself for the sake of influence=overrated :)

Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Saturday, 28 January 2006 19:36 (eighteen years ago) link

cf Teh Beatles

Jimmy Mod (I myself am lethal at 100 -110dB) (The Famous Jimmy Mod), Saturday, 28 January 2006 19:53 (eighteen years ago) link

Influence in itself for the sake of influence=overrated :)

"for the sake of influence" makes no sense, Geir. You mean like: "Oh they weren't even trying to write good songs, they were just trying to be influential!" Or maybe you mean, "Pffft! They weren't even GOOD, they were just incredibly influential!" Duh, makes no sense. Try again.

Hüsker of The Corn, Saturday, 28 January 2006 21:09 (eighteen years ago) link

I am shocked at the hate that this band seemed to unleash (though much of it was several years ago, apparently). I always thought the band to br crit-darlings.

Once the band got over the noisecore of the early releases, they unleashed a string of amazing recordings that I still enjoy to this day. The Living End might be my favorite live album and I hate live albums.

Brian O'Neill (NYCNative), Saturday, 28 January 2006 21:22 (eighteen years ago) link

Their songs don't sound too bad. I mean, it sounds like there were some songs in there. Too bad the vocals were mixed so low.

And, no, I wouldn't say I hate them. Just that, well, I find that their albums sounded more or less like bad demos, not letting the songs come through properly.

Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Saturday, 28 January 2006 21:23 (eighteen years ago) link

One of my favourite bands ever. And I love Sugar and those 1st 2 solo albums are great. I'm surprised Black Sheets Of Rains isn't more loved.

Last Of The Famous International Pfunkboys (Kerr), Saturday, 28 January 2006 21:25 (eighteen years ago) link

i remember liking it at the time (albeit purely in a 'he's ROCKING again' way) but haven't heard it in forever.

hongro rating production over songwriting shockah.

j blount (papa la bas), Saturday, 28 January 2006 21:51 (eighteen years ago) link

hongro rating production over songwriting shockah.

I like a kind of production that lets the songwriting come to the forefront. That is, the vocalist is the most important "instrument", and the producer's job is to get him heard properly.

My Bloody Valentine may be the worst produced band ever for that exact reason.

Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Saturday, 28 January 2006 22:32 (eighteen years ago) link

I would say there's a logical fallacy at work here but that would give the situation credit.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 28 January 2006 22:37 (eighteen years ago) link

My Bloody Valentine may be the worst produced band ever for that exact reason.


????

x-post

Last Of The Famous International Pfunkboys (Kerr), Saturday, 28 January 2006 22:38 (eighteen years ago) link

Geir's argument strikes me as a bit of a red herring. I was just listening to "Makes No Sense at All" and the vocals don't seem to be mixed that low.

Obviously, their SST records were recorded with a limited budget. Are the vocals mixed low on their Warner Brothers albums? (I don't remember them being so.)

Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Saturday, 28 January 2006 22:45 (eighteen years ago) link

i can say that "makes no sense at all" sounds like it was recorded with the mics two states over when placed next to even, say, a contemporaneous replacements song on a cd

cancer prone fat guy (dubplatestyle), Saturday, 28 January 2006 22:46 (eighteen years ago) link

Yeah, not really, Jess! Of course, the Replacements were on a major by Tim, so it's not a fair comparison. The album they had before that on Twin Tone - the one with "I Will Dare" on it - it probably sounds better than Flip Your Wig-era Husker Du. (Don't know; don't have it.)

Listening to "Makes No Sense at All," the vocals are clear, guitar is clear, drums are reverby but fairly clear, bass is (for the most part) MIA.

Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Saturday, 28 January 2006 22:54 (eighteen years ago) link

i didnt say it didnt sound CLEAR just not LOUD

this is not a comment on the relative mertits of the song, which is great

cancer prone fat guy (dubplatestyle), Saturday, 28 January 2006 22:55 (eighteen years ago) link

But that was their aesthetic, right? The guitar is supposed to be loud. My point was that the lead vocal on that track is not *buried*. It's right there.

Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Saturday, 28 January 2006 22:58 (eighteen years ago) link

no, yr right. it does sound distant to me, but you can still make out the words.

haha i dont know if i can remember a single husker du bassline.

cancer prone fat guy (dubplatestyle), Saturday, 28 January 2006 23:04 (eighteen years ago) link

Are all you guys who are praising the Minutemen seriously gonna tell me that D. Boon's voice beats the "on the brink" scream of Bob Mould's?? Every time I listen to Husker Du I ca'nt keep the adrenaline from flowing! I guess it has to do with who you talk to, but after reading this thread I'm starting to feel that Husker Du are actually underrated.Out of the majority of most hardcore bands of their era, they had the best melodic sensibility. So yeah, I guess my answer is going to have to be CLASSIC!

xgurggleglgllg (xgurggleglgllg), Saturday, 28 January 2006 23:15 (eighteen years ago) link

How bout the intro to something i learned today for a bassline?

xgurggleglgllg (xgurggleglgllg), Saturday, 28 January 2006 23:16 (eighteen years ago) link

I hated the Warners records at the time of release, but otherwise love the band. I wonder if I'd like the last couple better now.

truck-patch pixel farmer (my crop froze in the field) (Rock Hardy), Saturday, 28 January 2006 23:21 (eighteen years ago) link

Or the bassline for "Statues" or "Standing By the Sea" or "Powerline" or ...

Pleasant Plains /// (Pleasant Plains ///), Saturday, 28 January 2006 23:23 (eighteen years ago) link

It's not bad production. They have a "sound" that is super-fuzzy guitar that is so distorted it is almost static and thin. Under that, is a clear bass line and a drum that is usually slightly behind and the vocals sound "far off" but are not by any means buried. You can generally make out every word. They tried to sound exactly the same live. It's probably why the songs sound so damn good!

Hüsker of The Corn, Sunday, 29 January 2006 00:02 (eighteen years ago) link

"Clear bass line" - no way.

Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Sunday, 29 January 2006 00:15 (eighteen years ago) link

Sheesh! If you wanna talk about nonexistant basslines, look at Metallica. They seem to underappreciate the role of the instrument, a crying shame that they wasted one of the most original bassists, because it's all about guitars and heavy metal with them.... ..and solos.

xgurggleglgllg (xgurggleglgllg), Sunday, 29 January 2006 00:51 (eighteen years ago) link


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