Star Trek: Classic or Dud?

well there were guest character conflicts too

there's plenty of that in TNG

the "guest-character-upsets-crew-dynamic" is a regularly used plot device - Q, Lore, Troi's mom, Worf's family etc.

I've never liked the clunky design of TOS (especially when compared to 2001, which TNG looks a lot closer to)
But almost anyone who has seen both can draw the bridges from memory.

Not so with ds9, voyager, enterprise.

jeez, the original series budget was not in the same galaxy as Kubrick's. or TNG

It's strange that it doesn't address my biggest complaint about TNG, which is that it *looks* worse than TOS. The muted colors and bland design add to the air of uniformity and stiffness, which is a huge contrast to the deliberately bright and vibrant and odd TOS.

Like TOS, they shot every TNG episode on film, but the flat lighting and dull colors of TNG make me think they lit it for video. I think someone in production didn't know what the fuck they were doing. The PC-case-gray ship interior doesn't help. The TNG remasters enhance the colors but can't fix it all.

What color should it have been?
Presumably the TNG movies were more professionally lit but those don't strike me as more flattering or iconic representations of the ship or crew.

best tng was the ep where everyone de-evolves into primitive animal versions of themselves. data's cat turns into an iguana.

lol going to find and watch that one now. the comments on imdb are mostly rumination into whether Brannon Braga has any idea how evolutionary things work. judging by his work since then, the answer is probably still no

I love the voyager episode that does more or less the same except that people are EVOLVING into herptiles ('threshold')

Yeah the one where Paris and Janeway as lizards breed?!?

So fucked up

I would describe them as giant river salamanders

otm

What color should it have been?

TNG also had a composer, Ron Jones, who got fired for making music that was "too distracting". After he was fired they just used a small bag of cues, a type of score more common in cheaply made shows. So yeah, I believe TNG had big production blunders.

TNG is clearly not flat-out iconically beautiful like the original Trek but I still think it looks great, especially the remasters, and it's dated really well compared to other late 80s/early 90s shows - try watching it against an episode of LA Law or Seaquest or Quantum Leap, if you want to look at what "bland" really is. There are well-directed, iconic moments in every episode, even the shittiest ones. The set design makes some bad colour choices but it's super memorable. And the actors, in spite or their varying abilities and styles, are all fascinating to watch. Very few things in TOS match Picard's best moments in TNG.

Obviously ditching Ron Jones was a mistake. I don't get the "conflict" thing though - there are plenty of disagreements on the show. And the characters never struck me as blandly-too-perfect.

Like TOS, they shot every TNG episode on film, but the flat lighting and dull colors of TNG make me think they lit it for video. I think someone in production didn't know what the fuck they were doing.

Ha! Just last night my wife, who is watching these episodes for the first time like I am, saw "11001001" and said, "The lighting person on this show did not know what they were doing."

First Contact is the best looking of the TNG movies by a long, long way.

HI DERE

ok i tried color-correcting TNG; it did not work
http://i.imgur.com/A4ltSOx.jpg

who knew the future would be so beige

the future's so bright, you gotta wear beige

was close to making that v joke, but figured I would get shit for none of the costumes actually being beige

eh, i still think it looks pretty cool. luxury UN!

sometimes the future loops beige on itself
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/bd/St1-cast_publicity_shot.png

I put it to you that this is all accurate.

http://imgur.com/gallery/wpZ4w

i'm on the final season of TNG! the really good episodes are sort of few and far between now and they are kind of loosing the plot a bit.

it's kind of unfortunate how they handled The Borg imo. they were never as strong as those first couple of episodes, everything after they took over Picard is a little meh.

Data having dreams is an interesting idea but i feel like they are relying on the fish-eye-lens trick way too much. i loved seeing him struggle and asking Picard what to do, Picard telling him to use them as inspiration, and Data setting out to manically re-create his dream imagery through paintings. absolutely hated HATED Data stabbing Troi in "Phantasms". i was convinced that was a dream as well and it would turn into Inception a bit but no, they go full horror mode for it, and it's a bit too much to take. especially how everyone quickly brushes it off. if you had an android that was suddenly suffering from nightmares and hearing voices telling him to "Kill them" and then violently attacks a crew member wouldn't you do more than just confine him to quarters for a bit?

"Frame of Mind" from Season 6 was pretty entertaining, reminding me a bit of the Bjork video about the play where the play is about them writing the play etc. on the one hand i felt like they were leaning a bit hard on Riker going crazy for the latter half of season 6, but he's a convincing enough actor to pull it off.

"Ship in a Bottle" is a great holodeck episode. Moriarty from Sherlock Holmes LEAVE THE HOLODECK, something that should be literally impossible, and the episode is a great mystery that has a cool Inception-style payoff. sorry i keep referring to that movie lol

"Starship Mine" was probably the most impressive of the past 2 seasons, basically Die Hard In Space. what a great premise: the Enterprise is evacuated for a standard cleaning procedure and top staff gathered to a dull diplomatic meet-and-greet when Picard overhears an opportunity to go horse riding. upon going back to the ship to get his saddle, he discovers it is being infiltrated by terrorists, and one-by-one he has to take them out, reclaim his ship, etc. all while a giant fatal space laser is slowly sweeping the ship from front to back. SO GOOD.

ship in a bottle is the best tng ep

YES i love the solution they come up with

picard breaking the fourth wall in his closing remarks is A+++

It's a mean trick they pull (in Ship in a Bottle), and ridiculous that a self aware AI spontaneously generates and they basically go 'lol' and then shut it up in a cupboard and forget all about it. A bit like the stuff in Plato's Stepchildren that can give anyone godlike psychokinesis, but is never mentioned again. Or the gate in The City at the Edge of Forever - "many such journeys are possible!", nah mate we've had enough.

watch Yesteryear in the animated series

Greatest Gen podcast still killin' it

It's a mean trick they pull (in Ship in a Bottle), and ridiculous that a self aware AI spontaneously generates and they basically go 'lol' and then shut it up in a cupboard and forget all about it.

Well, there's also the episode where the ship's computer gives birth to a sentient lifeform, and the other one where Wesley accidentally creates sentient life from his pet nanobots, so this sort of stuff seems to be happening every other day in TNG. Though I guess that raises the question why everyone is so in awe of Data being a sentient artificial life form, when a teenager can create the same literally out of his school science project.

they all know that data fucks, dude

makes all the difference

And with Moriarty they at least remembered to return to the question left hanging four years earlier (what do we do with this sentient holodeck character?), which was nice, considering how light on continuity TNG as a whole was. IIRC they would've wanted to address that plot thread earlier, but the actor wasn't available until the 6th season. They even make a meta joke about it in "Ship in a Bottle", where Moriarty is like, you just all forgot about me for years, wtf?!

(xpost)

Didn't Lt. Yar make Data promise he would never tell about the fucking to anyone else?

http://www.vulture.com/2016/10/bryan-fuller-out-as-star-trek-discovery-runner.html

c'mon, you can tell just by looking at him that data fucks, man

I really like "The Next Phase"! It's where Ro and Geordi "die" in a transporter accident, but it reveals the mystery without technobabble overload, and loads of funny moments -- Ro being chased by the similarly phased Romulan through random crew quarters, Ro and Geordi going to their own wake, Ro being intrigued at what Riker might have to say about her, and then her reaction when she's not going to hear it. And I guess this is one of the better Ro episodes!

I think that I'm more into the more fun sci-fi episodes more than the ones That Make You Think or get tangled in some ethical dilemma or other sacred TNG cows -- I enjoyed it more than "The Inner Light" and "Yesterday's Enterprise" by a far margin!

IIRC they would've wanted to address that plot thread earlier, but the actor wasn't available until the 6th season.

I think it wasn't that the actor was unavailable, it's that they had trouble licensing the Moriarty character from the Doyle estate.

Holmes isn't public domain by now?!

has to be now because there are a hundred different publications of that stuff and it's free on amazon kindle.

I believe the early Sherlock stories were PD when the season 2 episode was made, but the story with the Moriarty character wasn't. it's all PD now.

ah gotcha

i've finished all of TNG. what should i look at next? i've seen all of TOS and all the movies. i heard the 70s animated series is actually pretty good. or Deep Space Nine?

into the 5th season of voyager now, lots of duds but some really good eps occasionally and janeway is always great

xp DS9 is the next best for sure. much like TNG it takes a couple seasons to really find its footing but it certainly rewards watching the whole thing more than any other trek as it has better characters and a bigger-picture plot to get invested in

DS9!!!!

^^^