pitchfork is dumb (#34985859340293849494 in a series.)

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well, yeah, if other people are involved it could be a hassle, i guess. but a list like this one could be put together in an hour or two by one person and then that person just gets people to write about the songs. voila. which is probably how a lot of internet lists are made nowadays. doesn't have to be time-consuming.

scott seward, Wednesday, 24 August 2016 20:17 (seven years ago) link

which is why i tend to like more personal/obsessive lists by people who are nuts like me.

scott seward, Wednesday, 24 August 2016 20:22 (seven years ago) link

wait are there seriously no bee gees on the main list?

you think Lou Bega gave up after Mambo Number One??? (voodoo chili), Wednesday, 24 August 2016 20:38 (seven years ago) link

not in my experience! all the arguing i've seen about this list is not about about whether "metal guru" should have been #150 AT LEAST but about what made it on the list and what didn't.

― a confederacy of lampreys (rushomancy), Wednesday, August 24, 2016 3:55 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Fair enough but I would imagine one of the most popular discussion topics in regards to this list is how things rank and whether or not Pitchfork did so correctly.

Evan, Wednesday, 24 August 2016 21:07 (seven years ago) link

nothing by Heart, would've figured "barracuda" as a lock.

Western® with Bacon Flavor, Wednesday, 24 August 2016 21:21 (seven years ago) link

these kind of conversations always remind me of when the Rolling Stone Album Guide came out in late '04 and the first I heard that it existed was when somebody (on ilx iiirc) noted there was no Metallica in the damn thing

thrusted pelvis-first back (ulysses), Wednesday, 24 August 2016 23:57 (seven years ago) link

or to quote amazon

1.0 out of 5 stars
By ProperGander News (Dr. Emil Shuffhausen) on August 9, 2005

Many reasonable music fans would be utterly baffled by the obtuse, eccentric, inconsistent, inaccurate, incomplete, scattershot, scatterbrained, and ultimately irrelevant nature of this Fourth Edition of the once-proud Rolling Stone brand Album Guide. How can such a fat, sprawling, ostensibly labor-intensive work be so shoddy and gap-filled?

One scarcely knows where to begin in criticizing this book. Some have mentioned the puzzling, random way in which artists are included or excluded. For example, here are a few of the classic rock/pop/soul artists that are not included at all (love 'em or hate 'em, they are significant):

Metallica
Emerson, Lake, & Palmer
George Harrison
Asia
Deep Purple
Nine Inch Nails
Dan Fogelberg
Dixie Dregs
Lionel Richie
Al Stewart
Marshall Tucker Band
Alan Parsons
Ambrosia
Gerry Rafferty
Chris Rea
Badfinger
Vangelis
The Move
Rick Wakeman
Maze featuring Frankie Beverly
Crowded House (The Finn Brothers and Split Enz also)
Tom Jones
Toto

And, if you're going to include some country artists, how can you leave out longtime major artists such as Alabama, George Strait, John Denver, Martina McBride, Andy Griggs, Toby Keith, Kenny Chesney, The Judds, Kenny Rogers, Brad Paisley, or any number of others?

Plus, albums in the Christian and Gospel genres are almost completely blackballed here, in a neat bit of exclusion, despite the fact that there are some worthy artists out there who have made groundbreaking, compelling, beautiful, rocking, daring, and moving music over the years.

Oh, but the wise editors made sure we got to read reviews on such "vital" artists as:

The Dictators
Boredoms
Aceyalone
Kid Koala
Gorky's Zygotic Mynci
Buju Banton
Marky Mark
Beanie Sigal
Spain
Green Velvet
Black Dice
Roni Size/Reprazent
Saint Etienne
Amy Rigby
Swell Maps
Pernice Brothers
The Sea and Cake
Mogwai
Shellac

Please note: the above list represents just a five-minute random thumb-through of the book, which is chock full of obscure, irrelavent "artists" who the editors feel the need to inflict upon the reader/listener. This is typical of the sneering arrogance that pervades this book like stink on a rat.

Enough of that. Let's just say the selection of artists is, at times, incredibly random.

Among an unwieldy, inconsistent, motely crew of writers in the book, perhaps the worst offender here is "reveiwer" Rob Sheffield who could not possibly be more in love with himself. He forgets that it's all about the music, not about him. His comments strain to be witty, but come off as the snotty spoutings of an immature little smart-aleck brat. He is not nearly as informed as he imagines, and if being cool were a physical attribute, then he would need a hip replacement.

Of course, Sheffield is not the only malcontent turned loose with a pen; another standout in the lowdown category is Keith Harris, who is obscene, offensive, and guilty of being the pot who calls the kettle a pot...ie, hurling accusations of blandness and lack of imagination at certain artists. And doing so in an unecessarily graphic and nasty way.

This book could have used some writing from a thoughtful, knowledgable reviewer like David Wild, but instead, what we get is mostly a bunch of juveniles--or crusty old windbags who are way past their prime and locked into some kind of mental prison (JD Considine, I'm looking at you, kid). I have seldom read a work that was more rigidly politically correct; the pandering, patronizing, drooling worship offered up to all things hip-hop, for example, is ludacris...I mean, ludicrous.

But, at the same time, there is a hateful animus against anything to do with progressive rock. The few prog bands that are actually mentioned here are, by and large, mercilessly slagged. Particularly egregious is the revisionist and pernicious caterwauling against the fantastic music of Kansas. Or parroting the phony worm-brained canard that the genius Jeff Lynne is somehow a "hamhanded" producer.

But, of course, every MC and hip hop pimp wanna-be woman hater is a genius, according to this book. How trite. Adhering to the old pat standard of attacking art and defending "trendy" rubbish is so tired and shopworn; but, it's just another facet of this book's worthlessness. Obsequious political correctness and conformity is the order of the day among these music writers.

As others have noted, the "star ratings system" in this book does not always match up with the descriptions written below them. Some four star albums are ripped and some two star albums are hailed. What gives? Didn't anybody proof this tree-slaughtering tome?

What a wasted project. With review sites such as Amazon flourishing, the need for "experts" at ROLLING STONE to tell us what is supposed to be cool is vanishing. Perhaps, if we are all lucky, RS will not see the need to get around to publishing a 5th Edition and this 4th Edition will sink into the swamp of it's own rot.

Too bad. I own earlier editions of the RS Album Guide and it used to be of some use. No more. To steal a quote from an earlier RS book, "Abandon all hope, ye who enter here."

thrusted pelvis-first back (ulysses), Wednesday, 24 August 2016 23:58 (seven years ago) link

speaking of which, i went head to head with that loser lester bangs in rolling stone recently. to heck with that guy!

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/pictures/10-classic-albums-rolling-stone-originally-panned-w429731/black-sabbath---black-sabbath-1970-w429740

scott seward, Thursday, 25 August 2016 00:02 (seven years ago) link

lol at calling Sabbath "Just like Cream! But worse."

thrusted pelvis-first back (ulysses), Thursday, 25 August 2016 00:03 (seven years ago) link

nothing beats "bullshit necromancy, drug-impaired reaction time, long solos"

brimstead, Thursday, 25 August 2016 00:07 (seven years ago) link

most olde tyme negative reviews just make things sound awesome to me. it's the xgau effect.

scott seward, Thursday, 25 August 2016 00:08 (seven years ago) link

The Dictators are relatively vital.

clemenza, Thursday, 25 August 2016 00:12 (seven years ago) link

i'll take gorky's zygotic mynci over deep purple five days out of seven, but if i wanted to know more about gorky's zygotic mynci i don't think my first instinct would be to see what rolling stone thought of them

a confederacy of lampreys (rushomancy), Thursday, 25 August 2016 00:37 (seven years ago) link

well they got Pinkerton right.

campreverb, Thursday, 25 August 2016 03:14 (seven years ago) link

Fuck that guy. The Sea and Cake are awesome.

Austin, Thursday, 25 August 2016 03:50 (seven years ago) link

With review sites such as Amazon flourishing

veggie sticks potato snacks (Sufjan Grafton), Thursday, 25 August 2016 04:50 (seven years ago) link

Scott, that link is amazing. LMAO at Rolling Stone's pan of Are You Experienced. Who the FUCK pays attention to Jimi Hendrix's lyrics?!

Mr. Snrub, Thursday, 25 August 2016 11:34 (seven years ago) link

Adhering to the old pat standard of attacking art and defending "trendy" rubbish is so tired and shopworn

fresh and original observation

blafe and sand (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 25 August 2016 11:40 (seven years ago) link

xp to "dreaming" being disco blondie -- it's the dancing queen rip does that count

a self-reinforcing downward spiral of male-centric indie (katherine), Thursday, 25 August 2016 14:32 (seven years ago) link

Does anyone really, really, really like "What's Going On"? I've always felt that it's the r&b counterpart of the equally boring "Imagine". The message does all the heavy lifting, while the music is kind of a snore. Feel like it's been cruising on pure inertia for quite some time.

Darin, Thursday, 25 August 2016 23:35 (seven years ago) link

i'm pretty sure everybody likes it. but we need to move on now. this list is so yesterday.

scott seward, Thursday, 25 August 2016 23:38 (seven years ago) link

Music in Imagine is amazing. Whats Goin On also great bar a couple tracks, great sound.

Οὖτις, Thursday, 25 August 2016 23:41 (seven years ago) link

"what's going on" would make my top 5 or top 10. it's no donnie joe emerson though

brimstead, Thursday, 25 August 2016 23:41 (seven years ago) link

I like "What's Going On" (more so than "Imagine," which stopped being interesting to me as soon as the subversive kick of "no religion" wore off for me) but to affirm your point, I suppose, I don't feel all that passionate about defending it.

rhymes with "blondie blast" (cryptosicko), Thursday, 25 August 2016 23:42 (seven years ago) link

maybe I've been de-sensitized to both songs. I dunno. I get fidgety when I hear political songs.

Darin, Thursday, 25 August 2016 23:43 (seven years ago) link

I get fidgety when I watch political movies, so that I get.

rhymes with "blondie blast" (cryptosicko), Thursday, 25 August 2016 23:44 (seven years ago) link

all songs are political

The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 25 August 2016 23:51 (seven years ago) link

my favorite political song is "hallogallo"

a confederacy of lampreys (rushomancy), Thursday, 25 August 2016 23:54 (seven years ago) link

'Inner City Blues' and 'Mercy Mercy Me' are the better choices from that album.

Austin, Friday, 26 August 2016 01:24 (seven years ago) link

yep

The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 26 August 2016 01:28 (seven years ago) link

my favorite Gaye these days is In Our Lifetime.

The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 26 August 2016 01:28 (seven years ago) link

a really, really good record

The bald Phil Collins impersonator cash grab (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Friday, 26 August 2016 02:33 (seven years ago) link

distant lover's my pick for the 70's

Heez, Friday, 26 August 2016 02:38 (seven years ago) link

Trouble Man soundtrack and I Want You are my go-to Marvins. because i'm really dope.

scott seward, Friday, 26 August 2016 03:22 (seven years ago) link

I Want You is clearly the best thing he ever did.

Austin, Friday, 26 August 2016 04:03 (seven years ago) link

clearly

brimstead, Friday, 26 August 2016 04:13 (seven years ago) link

What's Going On has a very special sound, but the lyrics do have a slightly bullshitty vagueness to them. Somehow Inner City Blues doesn't bother me in the same way. However my favorite track on the record is God is Love, strangely.

No way, 'God is Love' totally rules.

The live set that's on the deluxe edition of What's Going On, generally speaking, makes a sick joke out of the studio version.

Austin, Friday, 26 August 2016 04:50 (seven years ago) link

This Spotify playlist is ALL dollar bin stuff!

"Songs in the key of Donnie and Joe Emerson: Music that Inspired the Fruitland Recordings"

https://open.spotify.com/user/lightintheatticrecords/playlist/3vVsfGaJQMl7OBmJajg2rg

brimstead, Friday, 26 August 2016 05:26 (seven years ago) link

some measure of commitment to their position as arbiter of the canon or whatever

Apart from having fun with lists and producing content for a website the key to these lists is that if they are accepted they assert the publishers "cultural capital" or smth right?

I know that's a very basic point, but surely it's the primary underlying motive behind such a list, discussing and engaging with the cannon and your position in relation to it

niels, Friday, 26 August 2016 16:19 (seven years ago) link

the expanded version of What's Going On with all the extra tracks/demos is pretty amazing, I love that lush but still gritty sound. Oddly I don't unreservedly love any of Gaye's albums all the way through, I still feel like I would prefer to cherrypick tracks from here and there. Maybe cuz that way I still get the full length of Got to Give It Up (his best song)

Οὖτις, Friday, 26 August 2016 20:20 (seven years ago) link

I know that's a very basic point, but surely it's the primary underlying motive behind such a list, discussing and engaging with the cannon and your position in relation to it

Probably. Sight & Sound and Rolling Stone want to guard it, maybe incrementally move it along, Spin in 1988 wanted to upend it--which can be embarrassing if you don't have anything interesting to offer as a replacement; their list was pretty good, though. Pitchfork, I don't know well enough to comment.

clemenza, Friday, 26 August 2016 20:25 (seven years ago) link

the best track on what's goin on is what's happenin' brother. "will our ballclub win the pennant? do you think they stand a chance? and tell me, friend, how in the world have you been?"

in twelve parts (lamonti), Sunday, 28 August 2016 20:19 (seven years ago) link

http://pitchfork.com/features/lists-and-guides/9932-the-50-best-indie-rock-albums-of-the-pacific-northwest/

Strange list. Lots of good albums, but "the folks who made this list chose to exclude the “grunge” era from the tally".

ArchCarrier, Tuesday, 6 September 2016 08:57 (seven years ago) link

Full list:

1. Elliott Smith - Either/Or
2. Sleater-Kinney - Dig Me Out
3. The Microphones - The Glow, Pt. 2
4. Modest Mouse - The Lonesome Crowded West
5. Built to Spill - There’s Nothing Wrong With Love
6. Sunny Day Real Estate - Diary
7. Elliott Smith - XO
8. Modest Mouse - The Moon & Antarctica
9. Death Cab for Cutie - Transatlanticism
10. Bikini Kill - Pussy Whipped
11. Beat Happening - Jamboree
12. The Shins - Oh, Inverted World
13. Built to Spill - Keep It Like a Secret
14. Fleet Foxes - Fleet Foxes
15. Destroyer - Streethawk: A Seduction
16. Japandroids - Celebration Rock
17. Sleater-Kinney - All Hands on the Bad One
18. The New Pornographers - Twin Cinema
19. The Postal Service - Give Up
20. Wipers - Youth of America
21. Unwound - Leaves Turn Inside You
22. Dead Moon - In the Graveyard
23. Neko Case - Furnace Room Lullaby
24. The Exploding Hearts - Guitar Romantic
25. The Thermals - The Body, The Blood, The Machine
26. The Shins - Chutes Too Narrow
27. Death Cab for Cutie - We Have the Facts and We're Voting Yes
28. Bratmobile - Pottymouth
29. Beck - One Foot in the Grave
30. Heatmiser - Mic City Sons
31. The Microphones - It Was Hot, We Stayed in the Water
32. The Halo Benders - The Rebels Not In
33. Band of Horses - Everything All the Time
34. The Decemberists - Picaresque
35. Mirah - You Think It's Like This But Really It's Like This
36. Pedro the Lion - Control
37. Gun Outfit - Possession Sound
38. The Softies - It’s Love
39. Milk Music - Cruise Your Illusion
40. Pretty Girls Make Graves - The New Romance
41. Lync - These Are Not Fall Colors
42. Tiny Vipers - Life on Earth
43. White Lung - Sorry
44. Quasi - Featuring "Birds"
45. The Posies - Frosting on the Beater
46. The Spinanes - Arches and Aisles
47. Youth Lagoon - The Year of Hibernation
48. Damien Jurado - Maraqopa
49. Excuse 17 - Such Friends Are Dangerous
50. Gaze - Mitsumeru

ArchCarrier, Tuesday, 6 September 2016 10:43 (seven years ago) link

would rather see a list from... say.. Italy. or some other relatively unknown indie location. the mediterranean southwest of Italy probably would be stretching things a bit :P

Ludo, Tuesday, 6 September 2016 10:49 (seven years ago) link

just read a pretty nice list of italian new wave myself. i think gaznevada might be a little niche for pfork though?

a confederacy of lampreys (rushomancy), Tuesday, 6 September 2016 11:05 (seven years ago) link

I can't get past chutes too narrow at only 26. That's #1 in my opinion.

carly reagan jepsen (2011nostalgia), Tuesday, 6 September 2016 15:57 (seven years ago) link

this list would be 100x better if they left in grunge

marcos, Tuesday, 6 September 2016 16:16 (seven years ago) link


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